MERGED: RP-China Territorial Dispute, Related Events and Updates

[messerchtmitt]

What people do not consider is that China has never been an aggressor. They bully, but they do not attack other countries like the U.S. As long as our soldiers do not fire first, there will be no war. Was there a war with the China-Taiwan dispute? None.. Was there a war when China took over Hong Kong, nada. Was there a war when the U.S. accidentally blasted the Chinese Embassy? Still nothing.

China has always been defensive. Plain and simple. Stop with all this war thing. This is no longer the Golden Years of the 1950's. War in today's economy is nothing but an expense. Unless you aomire the United States that has a long history of starting wars.

I don't agree China hasn't been an aggressor. How about during the Korean War, Vietnam War and African conflict, there are thousands of Chinese been killed, POW and MIA.

China has been aggressive in those wars in disguise with the N. Koreans, Vietnamese, Syrian, Iranian and others. Nowadays, they have been aggressive in economic war, technological and cyber warfare. Are they not aggressive?

[shal213]

When these treatise be broken due to the fact that a state member of the international community is not obliged to abide by international law, even through UN arbitration, it means war...

The US has been pressing China, the Philippines and other countries with territorial claims in the West Philippine Sea to resolve their dispute through diplomacy, particularly in accordance with international law, including the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). Once again if this will not happen and China pursue its claim then there could be clashes.

The US military's new focus on the Asia-Pacific region, as enunciated by Defence Secretary Leon Panetta, putting Marines base in Northern Australia, improving military relationships with Vietnam and much more with the Philippines plus the Singapore.

It sounds that the next world war will be held in the West Philippine Sea. This is like Japan in 1941 nine hours after bombing Pearl Harbor, they attack Philippines and next to other Asian countries.

Point one, did the UN or any other country declare war against Iran or North Korea when they broke international treaties? And these treaties are not simple land disputes, but matters of Nuclear Weapons? The UN is only a tool for discourse but it can never dictate or declare war.

Point two, US pressuring China is like a kid pressuring his mother. With the massive debt that the US has against China, they have no bargaining chip.

Point three, do you really want the US bases back in preparation of war? Check the countries that have US bases and that has gone to war? Are you willing to let the Philippines be the battleground between two egoistic countries vying for international supremacy? Do you want to be pawns so that Kings can assert their ego's?

Lastly, are you 100% that the UN and the United States and its allies would come right to our aid if ever war broke loose? Or would they abandon us like they abandoned several Eastern European countries(Georgia for example) and would they stay to secure our stability or would they leave like they did in Vietnam?

[kaspaguz]

kadakung utangan pa bya ni uncle sam sa insik, nya c uncle sam known bya for conspiracies kuyawg mubaLi pa nun

[shal213]

I'm not sure if you're fully aware of the consequences here bro if China take full ownership of these waters.

But a Communist nation taking over a major passageway is a bit uncomforting, expecially to commercial traffics, and trades of Democratic nations. The South China Sea contains major sea-lanes of communications including
some of the busiest shipping routes in the world. It also holds important "vantage point" for Western alliances against East Asia Regimes like North Korea, China, Cambodia, and Laos. This is a very strategic point to set off naval warfare. Just like how the Soviets controlled the Bering strait, the British controlled the English Channel and EGypt the Suez.

The "oil issue " although is another ballroller, is only a small fraction of Western Interest. We can never allow an overambitious, booming, socialist regime to flex their might over these waters. For Pete's sake, we cannot let them take these from us.

Lol. Forgive me for laughing but you do really think that China would deter back to the propagation of Social Communism? And risk the capitalistic empire that they have built?

I am aware of some of the potential consequences that may occur if we concede to the issue of ownership of Panatag Shoal and are you aware of the loss that the Philippines may occur if war is conducted in our own land? I'm not talking about Japan-US type of war where carpet bombing spared major cities like Manila but war that can turn major cities to rubble. Ballistic missiles that can hit any part of the Philippines. Let them flex their muscles for all the world to see, it is the only thing a communist nation facing the rest of the democratic world can do. If your concern is the Communist/Socialist agenda, then let South Korea handle it. They are more capable of facing China. Leave the Philippines out of it.

[messerchtmitt]

Point one, did the UN or any other country declare war against Iran or North Korea when they broke international treaties? And these treaties are not simple land disputes, but matters of Nuclear Weapons? The UN is only a tool for discourse but it can never dictate or declare war.

Point two, US pressuring China is like a kid pressuring his mother. With the massive debt that the US has against China, they have no bargaining chip.

Point three, do you really want the US bases back in preparation of war? Check the countries that have US bases and that has gone to war? Are you willing to let the Philippines be the battleground between two egoistic countries vying for international supremacy? Do you want to be pawns so that Kings can assert their ego's?

Lastly, are you 100% that the UN and the United States and its allies would come right to our aid if ever war broke loose? Or would they abandon us like they abandoned several Eastern European countries(Georgia for example) and would they stay to secure our stability or would they leave like they did in Vietnam?

UN can't declare war nor can dictate but can stop wars between countries and provide a platform for dialogue.

There have been talk or rumors that China are supplying information, tools, equipment and etc to countries like N. Korea and Iran for Nuclear weapon building.

I have nothing to say about US massive debt with China.

US bases? During the Marcos regime, there was 2 or 4 US bases. Philippines in the 50's are booming while India is left behind 20 years in terms of technology, except later in the 80's. As you can see, we are militarily well equipped with advanced technologies and in those times US is at war with Vietnam. Philippines is a tiger economy. I have seen no external treats when the US bases still here. During the cold war, Philippines is strategically located in Asia, that's why US choose Philippine plus the long term defense treaty. Filipinos fighting side-by-side with Americans during WWII.

My question, are you willing also that we are going to be under Beijing and ruled by the Chinese?

United States have been a long ally with the Philippines especially during WWI, WWII (where Filipinos help the Americans to win the war. Japan intentions in those time is not with the US only but taking over whole Asia, the same with Germany), Korean wars, Vietnam war, even the later conflicts. Americans has taught us, educate us and others as our forefathers. Filipinos fight at best with American counterparts in those wars.

Yes, 99.99% UN and the United States and its allies would come right to our aid if ever war broke loose. Once again we have been a long time ally with the US. I do believe they won't left us behind. Most of my relatives are in the US Navy and Marines, and got one in the Navy SEALS.

Lastly, it's a personal question, I hope you don't mind. Are you a Communist?

[harhar]

Defend ta oi, na unsa nagud mo...

Before 47 Japanese soldiers ouwitted 47000 US soldiers, asa ka mangahoy ana... Kung naka buhat ang mga japanese so kabuhat sad ta diba gi kickass man nato ang mga japanese sa una?...

[bleedingboi]

Lol. Forgive me for laughing but you do really think that China would deter back to the propagation of Social Communism? And risk the capitalistic empire that they have built?

I am aware of some of the potential consequences that may occur if we concede to the issue of ownership of Panatag Shoal and are you aware of the loss that the Philippines may occur if war is conducted in our own land? I'm not talking about Japan-US type of war where carpet bombing spared major cities like Manila but war that can turn major cities to rubble. Ballistic missiles that can hit any part of the Philippines. Let them flex their muscles for all the world to see, it is the only thing a communist nation facing the rest of the democratic world can do. If your concern is the Communist/Socialist agenda, then let South Korea handle it. They are more capable of facing China. Leave the Philippines out of it.

South Korea doesn't have any hand on these shoals. We do.
The 1930's Japan was a Capitalistic empire. Remember how they flexed their muscle and joined with Nazi Germany against the Allies?

Of course, you would say these two scenarios are different, Japan is not China, but the odds can strike the same pot. History does repeat sometimes.

[shal213]

UN can't declare war nor can dictate but can stop wars between countries and provide a platform for dialogue.

There have been talk or rumors that China are supplying information, tools, equipment and etc to countries like N. Korea and Iran for Nuclear weapon building.

I have nothing to say about US massive debt with China.

US bases? During the Marcos regime, there was 2 or 4 US bases. Philippines in the 50's are booming while India is left behind 20 years in terms of technology, except later in the 80's. As you can see, we are militarily well equipped with advanced technologies and in those times US is at war with Vietnam. Philippines is a tiger economy. I have seen no external treats when the US bases still here. During the cold war, Philippines is strategically located in Asia, that's why US choose Philippine plus the long term defense treaty. Filipinos fighting side-by-side with Americans during WWII.

My question, are you willing also that we are going to be under Beijing and ruled by the Chinese?

United States have been a long ally with the Philippines especially during WWI, WWII (where Filipinos help the Americans to win the war. Japan intentions in those time is not with the US only but taking over whole Asia, the same with Germany), Korean wars, Vietnam war, even the later conflicts. Americans has taught us, educate us and others as our forefathers. Filipinos fight at best with American counterparts in those wars.

Yes, 99.99% UN and the United States and its allies would come right to our aid if ever war broke loose. Once again we have been a long time ally with the US. I do believe they won't left us behind. Most of my relatives are in the US Navy and Marines, and got one in the Navy SEALS.

Lastly, it's a personal question, I hope you don't mind. Are you a Communist?

UN can't declare war nor can dictate but can stop wars between countries and provide a platform for dialogue. <--- yeah right.. like the UN stopped US from invading two countries. Remember Iraq and Afghanistan? How bout Russia invading Georgia?

There have been talk or rumors that China are supplying information, tools, equipment and etc to countries like N. Korea and Iran for Nuclear weapon building. <--- please confirm your source. Rumors are just so old fashioned.

Read this please.
Iran to sign nuclear swap deal with Turkey, Brazil
Iran Affairs: Interview with Salehi on Iran's nuclear program

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/op...nuclearprogram <-- this is in reference to your UNCLOS.. it never works.




I have nothing to say about US massive debt with China. <-- again before you express your opinion on other matters. please research.

My question, are you willing also that we are going to be under Beijing and ruled by the Chinese? <-- generalization again. Let me rephrase a previous post in this thread; "they can't even stake their claim towards Taiwan or Chinese Taipei". I would love to reply to this but please cite arguments that can be discussed not opinion based on ignorance.

United States have been a long ally with the Philippines especially during WWI, WWII (where Filipinos help the Americans to win the war. Japan intentions in those time is not with the US only but taking over whole Asia, the same with Germany), Korean wars, Vietnam war, even the later conflicts. Americans has taught us, educate us and others as our forefathers. Filipinos fight at best with American counterparts in those wars. <--- check your history please. We did not participate during the 1st World War. The Americans abandoned us in World War II to establish a base in Australia. They left us to be killed, raped and be dominated by the Japanese. They lost the Vietnam War, the Korean war is not even over. I admit that they taught us democracy and it is a great lesson.

Yes, 99.99% UN and the United States and its allies would come right to our aid if ever war broke loose. Once again we have been a long time ally with the US. I do believe they won't left us behind. Most of my relatives are in the US Navy and Marines, and got one in the Navy SEALS. <-- really? do you have an insight on the policy making of the United States right now? Or would the US send only the relatives that you are so proud of? The United States have betrayed a lot of countries in its history and don't be too sure that the Philippines will not be part of the list. Remember Vietnam? Did they leave? I'm not sure.

Lastly, it's a personal question, I hope you don't mind. Are you a Communist? <--- it doesn't make a man a communist to question America and its intention. Only an idiot would accuse someone a communist for expressing his opinions freely. As I said in my previous post, I don't support China nor am I anti-patriotic. I express my opinion based on what I read and what I understand.
Of course, let me return the question, and I hope you don't mind. Are you America's lapdog?

P.S. For an intellectual discourse, please research and read. I recommend International Law by Cruz. Its a huge disappointment when I discuss with someone who makes false generalization.

[shal213]

South Korea doesn't have any hand on these shoals. We do.
The 1930's Japan was a Capitalistic empire. Remember how they flexed their muscle and joined with Nazi Germany against the Allies?

Of course, you would say these two scenarios are different, Japan is not China, but the odds can strike the same pot. History does repeat sometimes.

You're mixing two separate issues into one.

First issue: The shoal. The issue of Communism ideology shall not affect this issue. This is purely an economic issue.

Second: The Communism ideology issue would hit South Korea first before it affect us.

Lastly, Japan was an imperialistic country pre-World War II. They invaded China first then the rest of Asia. They aimed for a unified Asia under the Japanese emperor. China aims economic dominance.

History does repeat itself sometimes if it follows the same path of ideology.

[bleedingboi]

You're mixing two separate issues into one.

First issue: The shoal. The issue of Communism ideology shall not affect this issue. This is purely an economic issue.

Second: The Communism ideology issue would hit South Korea first before it affect us.

Lastly, Japan was an imperialistic country pre-World War II. They invaded China first then the rest of Asia. They aimed for a unified Asia under the Japanese emperor. China aims economic dominance.

History does repeat itself sometimes if it follows the same path of ideology.

Wrong. South Korea was never instigated in any of my previous statements, You brought it up.

The two scenarios I meant was the 1930's Ambitious, Imperialistic Japan, and the now ambitious, resource hungry China. These two do follow the same trend. Example:
Imperial Japan:Japanese Invasion of Manchuria, Pearl Harbor, The Pacific war.
Communist China: The current Syrian Conflict, Tibet invasion, North Korean war proxied by china, and Vietnam.

Now, the question: Would we let them flex their muscle in the Pacific? Give them the Territories they need and avoid war?

My Answer : No, Communism is Deadly, (Even how peaceful and economic their propagandas are) Even Winston Churchill added this comment : " Communism is like a Crocodile, when it opens it jaw, you cannot assume if it's smiling at you or preparing to devour you"
Your Answer: Yes, let them flex their might. And avoid War.

Another question: Is war inevitable if China is on top of the foodchain?

Answer: YEs, same doctrine, same regime. No matter how sugar-coated their propaganda is presented internationally, This country with the biggest child-labour violation, human rights violation, war atrocities ( Tibet), and iron-fist rule cannot be peaceful.