MERGED: Gay Marriage in the Philippines

[high_heels]

The problem with you people is you tend to label anyone who's against same *** partnership as haters. Grow Up! For the record, we do not hate you. So stop using it as an excuse to harbor pity, acceptance or whatever it is you want.

You don't want to be discriminated and judged but look at what you are doing.

"So now....to end this argument..this is where I believe it stops! "

You'd like to think so, but NO.

Being "in between" or being homosexual can be observed in nature. It has been observed in over 1,500 species. God created these species. Are we saying that God made a mistake? Doesn't it show that homosexuality is indeed "natural"?

Aren't humans part of NATURE? So if humans and 1,500 other species have homosexual tendencies, isn't there a possibility that homosexuality is indeed NATURAL?

and thank you for bringing that out...yes there has been single or more strands of disoriented human species as presented by psychopaths, homosexuals, etc.... But in the laws of nature, homosexuality is what we call "irregularities" occurrences to the normal strands of regular human genders. So with that said, even the laws of nature the animal kingdom only recognizes two genders which is male and female. The only exemption to this law of nature is if you are a "hermaphrodite."

[Cascada]

Of course I'd like to go to heaven. Who wouldn't? But if heaven is filled with hate-filled, bigoted individuals, I'd think twice.


Wouldn't you?

not being judgemental but chances are slim. well you said youd think twice, so i think thats not a problem for you.

[machinecult]

The problem is, the church takes it upon itself to apply its rules to ALL PEOPLE - Christians or not. Unfortunately, that is the very essence of being 'christian' - which is to spread the 'good news'. And since the majority are christians, it seems okay. But is it?

The best way to see how wrong this is is to reverse the roles. Assume christians are the minority and the majority are non-christians. How do you think the majority would feel if the rules of the minority also apply to them? It's absurd isn't it?

There are a lot of countries where Christians are the minority. Often times you don't even get to hear about them because these countries aren't practicing democracies. (No surprise there.) In Egypt, Coptic Christians lived in neighborhoods that happen to be the country's landfill. In places like China, Vietnam there are Christian churches but are sanctioned by the government as a way of controlling and subverting evangelical Christianity like the Three-Self Patriotic Church.

Places where Christians are persecuted.


The other factor is that most Christian churches or Christians don't spend too much time interacting with matters of the state unless it involves or challenges morality and its effect in society which is what is happening nowadays.

True. But do you believe this 'discrimination' of gays is justified? I mean, just because 'they're the most offbeat community', does that warrant being discriminated against? Does that make it okay then?

No, it doesn't.

I was merely stating based on observation that gay people are seen as 'out of the norm' for most people and just as any culture perceived as peculiar or unusual, they will usually end up discriminated. I wasn't saying or implying that its okay.

It may shock you but there are gay people in evangelical churches even mine though most of those who have been there for a long time left their old ways and have married. The rest are treated as brothers and they're fun to be with. Were are against homosexuality not homosexuals.

[lostatlast]

Any argument is forward and backward in itself. There are limits and exceptions. I'd just like to say to those of you who oppose same-*** marriage, do not act as if you know what it's like to be an actual homosexual. That is the one thing you have no real knowledge of, despite how much research you've done, or what the Bible says.

But I'll let you in on a hint...

We know how to fight, fear, recover, and love just like any other person.

For those of you who support same-*** marriage, I praise you for seeing beyond black and white. It's people like you that makes me proud to know that genuine decency and goodness exists, even in the face of hate and ignorance.

[machinecult]

Any argument is forward and backward in itself. There are limits and exceptions. I'd just like to say to those of you who oppose same-*** marriage, do not act as if you know what it's like to be an actual homosexual. That is the one thing you have no real knowledge of, despite how much research you've done, or what the Bible says.

But I'll let you in on a hint...

We know how to fight, fear, recover, and love just like any other person.

For those of you who support same-*** marriage, I praise you for seeing beyond black and white. It's people like you that makes me proud to know that genuine decency and goodness exists, even in the face of hate and ignorance.

The same could be said of you.

I'm tired of this "You're ignorant" "You're a bigot" accusations being thrown around. Okay, I don't believe having a different viewpoint is being ignorant or bigotry. We have our standard of living as do you, but unlike yours we value the FATHER and the MOTHER system. The Matrimonial Union between a man and a woman is the foundation for all that is good in society. According to sociologists, if we are going to design the best situation for a child to thrive in, it would be from a two parent home where the child is connected to each of his biological parents.

Now to say that any relationship is just as good as marriage devalues what marriage REALLY is. What you're asking is just a counterfeit. The Philippines already has so many social problems as it is and by injecting this issue is adding up to our problems and it challenges the most basic institution of society that God not man has ordained.

[tingkagol]

this is not about the LAW OF THE CHURCH and the LAW OF MAN.

gays...you want to be recognized not by church but by the law of "men" --- anyone who is in the position can bend this law, after all the "law of men" was created by MEN.

So now....to end this argument..this is where I believe it stops!

How about the law of NATURE? That we are all born to be NATURAL homosapien MALE and FEMALES. Bound to be MALES and FEMALES in this planet. BORN to have d!cks and v@ginas for the purpose of being recognized as male and females.

There is no single animal or specie in this planet born as a gender represented by "X" there were only two equations.

So where did the law of nature state that there is an "in between" therefore identified in this new world as gays, lesbians, transsexuals, gays?

The law of nature states that if you have "stick" then it is for a "hole", or vice versa....
the law of nature doesn't state that a "stick" and a "stick" is for each other. You surely didn't see any male dog humping another male dog right?

Do you really believe the only purpose of marriage, to use your words, is for putting the "stick" into the "hole"? Where does it state that married couples should have children (besides the bible)? Should we start jailing childless couples then?

There are couples who marry but don't intend to have children, you know. (heterosexual and homosexual couples). Nobody is trying to bend the laws of nature. Marriage or no marriage, males will always need to copulate with females to conceive. No arguing that.

The word "natural" is troublesome. How is homosexuality 'unnatural' if it happens in nature? Regardless, the notion that something is good if it's natural is surely notion a rational human will never hold on to.

[alt_tab]

does the issue, if being approved by the society and country, really exercise the meaning of equality? i wonder...

[tingkagol]

The problem is, the church takes it upon itself to apply its rules to ALL PEOPLE - Christians or not. Unfortunately, that is the very essence of being 'christian' - which is to spread the 'good news'. And since the majority are christians, it seems okay. But is it?

The best way to see how wrong this is is to reverse the roles. Assume christians are the minority and the majority are non-christians. How do you think the majority would feel if the rules of the minority also apply to them? It's absurd isn't it?

There are a lot of countries where Christians are the minority. Often times you don't even get to hear about them because these countries aren't practicing democracies. (No surprise there.) In Egypt, Coptic Christians lived in neighborhoods that happen to be the country's landfill. In places like China, Vietnam there are Christian churches but are sanctioned by the government as a way of controlling and subverting evangelical Christianity like the Three-Self Patriotic Church.

Places where Christians are persecuted.

Agreed. Now replace the word "Christians" with "Homosexuals". Minorities of all shapes and sizes often face the same troubles really. My point is, I believe the best government is one that caters to ALL (majority or minority) and does not marginalize and discriminate any of its citizens because of their race, color, or sexual orientation. For now, the church is not helping if it keeps meddling with how governments should be run. Thank god the Philippines isn't a theocratic country, but it seems the church wants it to be one.

The other factor is that most Christian churches or Christians don't spend too much time interacting with matters of the state unless it involves or challenges morality and its effect in society which is what is happening nowadays.

Christian morality and morality are two different things. It's a can of worms I'm too tired of opening at the moment. Probably best suited for another topic.

True. But do you believe this 'discrimination' of gays is justified? I mean, just because 'they're the most offbeat community', does that warrant being discriminated against? Does that make it okay then?

No, it doesn't.

I was merely stating based on observation that gay people are seen as 'out of the norm' for most people and just as any culture perceived as peculiar or unusual, they will usually end up discriminated. I wasn't saying or implying that its okay.

Good.

First of all. I am a heterosexual male. I'm defending an ideology that I think is right. Stop assuming that I'm gay because I'm not.

I'm heterosexual as well. It's funny how people here automatically assume you're gay since you support gay marriage.

[machinecult]

does the issue, if being approved by the society and country, really exercise the meaning of equality? i wonder...

If you can manage to bend the law in the name of 'social justice', 'equality' or whatever excuse and banner you can muster just so you can achieve your agenda, than you're not equal to the rest of the law abiding citizens of that country. You're a revolutionary and that also answers why the Left-wingers support same gender marriage.

[jnom]

Not taking sides since this doesn't affect me personally or professionally and just giving some thoughts.
My friends, who are doctors on duty in many hospitals in manila disclose some facts now and then about what they encounter at work, one of them regarding the AIDS statistics in manila. 3 out of 5 cases who get AIDS are male homosexuals. Most of them are single working in callcenters and living a batchelor life away from families.
Now in Cebu, it was reported last february the highest AIDS statistics of 250 plus people positive cases. I forgot which newspaper. More than 85% are male homosexuals, bi. Now we do know there are more gays here in cebu more than anywhere else in the Philippines.
Some are even working now in Singapore since they don't screen for HIV and AIDS.

If gay marriage is legalized maybe there would be less promiscuous gay males? Hehe.