Questions for the Atheists

[Devian]

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Nia pa gyu'y bag-o pa lang nako nga question nga gisugdan na pud nila'g likay2x. Tubaga kuno mga resident atheists.

Matud ninyo, the transformation of a very simple, single-cell life-form to a multi-cellular organism takes million of years.

But all of us know that it only takes nine SHORT months for a living single diploid cell called zygote (the fertilized egg cell) to transform into probably THE most complex multi-cellular organism called human fetus.

Unsaon man ninyo pag-harmonize kanang two conflicting statements sa taas?

ako, wala ko molikay...wa ko mo answer kay wa ika-answer ana kay di ko scientist.

if you make that statement a proof nga evolution didnt happened kay dili mi ka explain di sab na mao kay evolution did happened. again, kana imo pangutana ug kadtong uban pa na belong na sa 'how' process. some theories of evolution naay tubag, ang uban wala pa. gituki pa na. pero ang evidence naa... kana gi sige nimo ingon asa ang evidence dili na evidence imo gipangayo kundi gi unsa ang process ngano na ing-ana.

ang evolution dili kay Darwinian theory ra.

[rodsky]

Asa man ang logical proof aning imong statement nga: If you do arrive at a supreme deity conclusion while using logic, then your logic is flawed. ?

1. A religious act: If you pray hard enough, your wish could be granted.

2. The Wish: I wish there would be no rain today.

3. The Reality: Typhoon Signal #3 is over your area.

4. The Result: Prayer was STILL done despite the fact that the logical conclusion when there is a typhoon is that it will indeed rain, thereby negating the wish. Yet the prayer was an act of HOPING, thus it was an act of faith, rather than the clear logic of rain during a storm.

Religion is based on faith, not logic. If you use some form of "logic" in the above scenario (i.e. it's logical that the person has not prayed hard enough, or he has sinned so much--that's why the typhoon never stopped), then that form/mode of logic is flawed.

Matud ninyo, the transformation of a very simple, single-cell life-form to a multi-cellular organism takes million of years.
But all of us know that it only takes nine SHORT months for a living single diploid cell called zygote (the fertilized egg cell) to transform into probably THE most complex multi-cellular organism called human fetus.
Unsaon man ninyo pag-harmonize kanang two conflicting statements sa taas?

A rough analogy, probably not fitting, but for the sake of simplicity I'll still use it.

It takes 7 or more years to learn to become a doctor, but it takes just a few minutes/hours to diagnose what ailment a patient has. Evolution actually learns--the learning is imprinted into DNA/Genes, and that's why foetuses develop rapidly--it doesn't have to do the A-B-C's of cell construction--the instructions in the genes direct development of each part directly and precisely, thus developing the complete human form by the time the baby is ready to be delivered.

-RODION

[yanong_banikanhon]

Bay, wala man ko mangayo og proof kun logical ba ang prayer or dili. Labaw ng wala ko maghisgut kun faith or logic ba ang basis sa religion.

Simple ra man kaayo akong question. Matud nimo: If you do arrive at a supreme deity conclusion while using logic, then your logic is flawed.

Can you provide a logical proof for that statement?

[yanong_banikanhon]

the instructions in the genes direct development of each part directly and precisely...

If there are instructions, then there should be an instructor. From where the instructions in the DNA come from?

Evolution actually learns--the learning is imprinted into DNA/Genes...

Now this is getting interesting. Learning requires intelligence. Can you provide an explanation on how can a single living cell (without any brain) learn?

[rodsky]

If there are instructions, then there should be an instructor. From where the instructions in the DNA come from?

There you go again with the "A watch implies a watchmaker" bit, which has already been answered several times in this thread.

Learning requires intelligence.

Cockroaches know and learn that one way to survive is to keep in away from bright lights. Are you now implying that cockroaches are intelligent?

Machines also learn. You can create a program or a script that is self-learning and self-replicating. You're a programmer, you should know that. But please, don't go back again to the "If there's a program, there must be a programmer...if there's music, there should be a musician tirade."

Beautiful picture, ain't it?


Does it imply that an artist "imagined" this image, before he painted it? No...this is a Mandelbrot Fractal image...the delicate patterns, even if somewhat seemingly planned and ordered are not created my human hands or intelligence, but occur in nature as a natural trend in randomness. Ergo, if you exist in a certain scale, you will only see chaos in a certain construct, but going up and down the scale, presents you with repeating patterns that can be recognized or even misinterpreted as "deliberately arranged" when the fact is, it's not. This is also related to the concept of emergence. Emergence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


BTW going back to your earlier campaign to make cellular origins from amino acids a ridiculous idea, one for this thread's readers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoyle%27s_fallacy

-RODION

[kajrot1]

^
^
look at this bro
cockroaches found as intelligent as dogs
Cockroaches Found as Intelligent as Dogs! - Softpedia

[rodsky]

^
^
look at this bro
cockroaches found as intelligent as dogs
Cockroaches Found as Intelligent as Dogs! - Softpedia

Out of context--we are trying to compare the intelligence of cockroaches to HUMAN BEINGS, not dogs.

-RODION

[kajrot1]

where talking about intelligence here ^_^
and im just pointing out what you just said
"Cockroaches know and learn that one way to survive is to keep in away from bright lights. Are you now implying that cockroaches are intelligent?"

[rodsky]

where talking about intelligence here ^_^
and im just pointing out what you just said
"Cockroaches know and learn that one way to survive is to keep in away from bright lights. Are you now implying that cockroaches are intelligent?"

No, we are NOT talking about simple intelligence--we're tackling the issue of a supposed "intelligent" designer i.e. a god or deity that purportedly "planned" or "designed" the universe--by trying to argue that cockroaches are as intelligent as human beings or as dogs, are you then implying that a cockroach or a dog designed the universe?

Don't put fragments of phrases out of the context of their original purpose in a response--it only shows how choosy/picky you are in trying to address issues that you feel are against your personal opinions/feelings about an issue (i.e. "Ah kani akong tirahon kay kani raman akong nasabtan.").

-RODION

[yanong_banikanhon]

Does it imply that an artist "imagined" this image, before he painted it? No...this is a Mandelbrot Fractal image...the delicate patterns, even if somewhat seemingly planned and ordered are not created my human hands or intelligence, but occur in nature as a natural trend in randomness...

Non sequitur. Just because fractals are not created by human hands and is abundant in nature doesn't mean that they don't come from an intelligent source. Give me a proof that all fractals cannot come from an intelligent source aron dili mahimong non-sequitor kanang imong statement.

There you go again with the "A watch implies a watchmaker" bit, which has already been answered several times in this thread.
Machines also learn. You can create a program or a script that is self-learning and self-replicating. You're a programmer, you should know that. But please, don't go back again to the "If there's a program, there must be a programmer...

Of course, I will go back to this point again because it is completely illogical and unreasonable to expect that a set of instructions (a computer program or genetic codes) just mysteriously appears without any intelligent entity coding them in the first place.

Can you give me a situation wherein a set of instructions (maybe thousands of them) just appears out of randomness, without any aid of any intelligence and that the recipients of these instructions totally understand them and can execute them in the right manner?