Questions for the Atheists

[yanong_banikanhon]

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Are laws of logic universal?
No. The only reason it's called "universal" is because a lot of people happen to agree with it.

If the laws of logic are not universal then how can you prove that your statement below

The only reason it's called "universal" is because a lot of people happen to agree with it.

is true?

Let me give another example to clarify my point:

Kun sa sulod sa mental hospital nagka-uyon ang mga buang nga pwede ka mosaka sa siga sa flashlight aron makagawas sa paril, moingon lugar ka nga logical ang gisulti sa mga buang kay daghan man sila nga nagka-uyon, unya ikaw ra usa ang nisupak?

[ketllac]

@yanong_banikanhon

wow this is a good question bai. btw I am a man of faith. let me give you my own explanation pero mag lisod ko ug construct hehehe.


1. Do you believe that the use of logic is the only valid way to examine the truth or falsity of any statement?


1. Yup this is the only valid way to examine the truth and only way to provide proof. In logic you need to have a valid premise based on facts and infer from it to draw a conclusion. and Science needs this . science can only infer but doesn't consider discoveries as absolute truth like in religion.

Can you think of another method? Bible imo gamiton pag forecast ug weather? faith imo gamiton pag diagnose ug sakit?

but proof is a weaker concept than truth...

2. Do you believe that the laws of logic are universal (it applies to all) and immaterial (not made of matter, atoms, particles) ?

Laws of logic is a tool or a system that doesn't have a physical property just like mathematics. Its immaterial because it is only a system to infer and draw conclusion from a valid premise or fact. The only thing that has physical dimension and property is the subject of the study like matter.like E=mc2 is an abstract concept and immaterial but it is derived from our physical world. another example is the concept in geometry or five postulates.but without this system the method applied in science is questionable. Aside from that science and mathematics developed and separated from this field.

[pinoy_09]

If the laws of logic are not universal then how can you prove that your statement below



is true?

Let me give another example to clarify my point:

Kun sa sulod sa mental hospital nagka-uyon ang mga buang nga pwede ka mosaka sa siga sa flashlight aron makagawas sa paril, moingon lugar ka nga logical ang gisulti sa mga buang kay daghan man sila nga nagka-uyon, unya ikaw ra usa ang nisupak?

I guess the point I'm making is that, if there is a consensus in society to decide whether a statement is true or not (re math example), it is then branded as "universal". The question "is law of logic universal" itself is invalid.

[ketllac]

and naa koy nalimtan. Universal ni siya in the sense nga law of logic is constant.

[yanong_banikanhon]

I guess the point I'm making is that, if there is a consensus in society to decide whether a statement is true or not (re math example), it is then branded as "universal".

The point that you have just made, is it universal? I mean, your proposition which says:

if there is a consensus in society to decide whether a statement is true or not (re math example), it is then branded as "universal".

Does it apply everywhere? Is it true everywhere? Why?

[pinoy_09]

The point that you have just made, is it universal? I mean, your proposition which says:


Does it apply everywhere? Is it true everywhere? Why?

It's "universal" now. But it was an individual law before, but because people accepted it as the "truth", it became universal.

Is it true everywhere? I think not. Laws are changing if enough proof is given.

[yanong_banikanhon]

@ketllac

Kaning laws of logic bay, mao gyud ni ang pundasyon sa science ug mathematics. Kun wala ni siya, math and science will not make any sense. Maski mga atheist, uyon ani.

Pero kasagaran sa ila nalimot nga ang laws of logic mismo, dili gikan sa matter and therefore is not bounded by space and time. The laws of logic trancends the material world.

[pinoy_09]

Pero kasagaran sa ila nalimot nga ang laws of logic mismo, dili gikan sa matter and therefore is not bounded by space and time. The laws of logic trancends the material world.

But absolute truth is a logical fallacy. To say therefore that God exists beyond the limits of logic and reason is IRRATIONAL.

[yanong_banikanhon]

because people accepted it as the "truth", it became universal.

But absolute truth is a logical fallacy.

What about the statements above? Are they true everywhere at all times? Why?

[ketllac]

It's "universal" now. But it was an individual law before, but because people accepted it as the "truth", it became universal.

Is it true everywhere? I think not. Laws are changing if enough proof is given.

if its changing can you negate the classical laws of logic which is constant like the law of identity, law of non contradiction, and law of excluded middle?