MERGED: All About RP-US Mutual Defense Treaty/ VFA-MLSA and Related Issues

[YellowSubmarine]

Is this our president or one of the teletubbies?

[YellowSubmarine]

rally2x unya unsa may nakuha sa ilahang rally puros rman na samok2x..sumbong2x dayon sa human rights kay gibunalan daw cla sa mga police unya mag hilak2x if madakpan..

unsa may natabang sa rally??kagubot ra..
us navy or us troops--> daghan ug benefits makuha n mo lambo pa ang pinas ani

Can we just send the leftist to China?

[KE-25]

With all thats said and done , here's an interesting question:

Have we been better after Americans leaving?

[YellowSubmarine]

With all thats said and done , here's an interesting question:

How better are we after the Americans left?

Maybe the right question is, how WORSE are we after they left?

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

true, but then it was let go. which supports the view that it is less important than the Okinawa base.

Its not about which is of advantage . They cant do nothing about it because they were not allowed to renew the lease of contract . Its basically their loss and our regret .

every case can be viewed as an isolated case; same thing with the misbehavior of some US servicemen when they were deployed here and everywhere else. each is regarded as an isolated case as statistics are then shown that the locals commit more crimes than US service men do, etc. rape, harassment, shooting people and 'mistaking' them for pigs, the list goes on.

The point of isolated case here was about the crime that happened with or without the military base . Maski visiting forces lang na , a crime can still happen . Its basically portrayed by anti American people that if walay forces present sa Philippines , walay crime mahitabo commited by an American . Saon na lang kung pinoy ka and you are an American citizen .

well yes, there are civilian contractors involved for maintaining the bases, for sure. but these mostly are very low key; utilities and ground maintenance maybe. we do not have many qualified locals that can serve as technicians for warplanes, warships and tanks.

The latter part is actually for military personnel man gyud hehe . Dont limit pod the civilian contractors of being so low key bai . That is so degrading on their part . Did you know how much employment was generated when the bases are still operating ? Mind you there are locals also who acquired a level 1 security clearance and that is not so low key na pod . The point is , employment was served but not meant to solve poverty hehehe , just improve the lives and the families of the thousand some civilian personnel who got paid with benefits way more than our greedy politicians and the exploitive private sector are planning in generating livelihood .

evidently Olongapo became a red light district simply because the locals wanted it, but because the demand was there. eliminate the demand (as what was done a decade ago) and the city got over being the center of the flesh trade.

The presence was only a factor , not the mere reason as a demand because if thats the case , why are SANCIANKO , MANALILI , JUNQUERA , BONIFACIO , MALATE , ERMITA etc still operates and acts as known red light districts in the Philippines ? It only justifies that they are not relying on the Americans but sa locals pod .

nobody is saying that all abandoned US bases had toxic chemicals left out. it's just that Clark and Subic had those when they left. the US General Accounting Office (investigative body of the US Congress) even concurred about it. an article from Greenpeace from way back early 2000's, and a related article from Inquirer in 2008.

Was something done on the issue yet ?

an american may see it that way. someone who might have been grievously affected by their presence and what they have done, will see it differently.

True and that sheer of ignorance should also be fixed . I have said this because its so funny to see and think about these very ANTI AMERICAN PEOPLE who uses WESTERNIZED PRODUCTS , still SPEAKS ENGLISH up to this date and most of all , mo bali any given moment hatagan nimo ug chance to MIGRATE in the USA .

the questions to ask are what kind of help, what price and what conditions are there to get that 'help'. is our perceived need for this 'help' something real or something that we were just convinced of taking.

Nagpaka lawm lang gyud ta . Leave that to the local / national government . US Military bases presence afaik are very much apolitical sa atong side . Our perceived help man gud , correct me if I am wrong kay it will accord us payment of our debt , better lives to all the FIlipinos , zero employment rate etc which are all IMPOSSIBLE and that is our demand because we all know it cant be met so does Uncle Sam is left with a choice ??

@YELLOWSUBMARINE ...

That is the COMMANDER in CHIEF of the ARMED FORCES of the PHILIPPINES .

You should start respecting people otherwise , if its not nice to say just STFU .

[gareb]

Its not about which is of advantage . They cant do nothing about it because they were not allowed to renew the lease of contract . Its basically their loss and our regret .

but wait, there's more, there is something that was placed in its stead. the VFA (full text here) (Visiting Forces Agreement) which essentially allowed US troops in the country, and the not-so-well-known MLSA (Mutual Logistics and Support Agreement) which allowed the visiting forces to get logistical support, supply and services from its host country practically everywhere it wants to.

MLSA states that no permanent bases/structures will be built. but it is not needed when you can just refuel your ships, get ammunition, repair, recalibration, etc, anywhere, effectively turning the entire country into a base itself.

and at a fraction of the price for maintaining Subic and Clark. nice deal, huh?

The point of isolated case here was about the crime that happened with or without the military base . Maski visiting forces lang na , a crime can still happen . Its basically portrayed by anti American people that if walay forces present sa Philippines , walay crime mahitabo commited by an American . Saon na lang kung pinoy ka and you are an American citizen .

true, crime happens everywhere. the fact that it happens is a problem itself which we can set aside. what is more concerning is how these crimes are treated, and how justice can be sought. in the VFA, custody of a US service personnel charged with a crime in this country is retained by the US, 'until the end of all judicial proceedings', which includes appeals and such that can take forever. even after conviction, where the convicted US personnel is detained can also be agreed upon, as per experience with the Smith case, in the US Embassy. (timeline here)

The latter part is actually for military personnel man gyud hehe . Dont limit pod the civilian contractors of being so low key bai . That is so degrading on their part . Did you know how much employment was generated when the bases are still operating ? Mind you there are locals also who acquired a level 1 security clearance and that is not so low key na pod . The point is , employment was served but not meant to solve poverty hehehe , just improve the lives and the families of the thousand some civilian personnel who got paid with benefits way more than our greedy politicians and the exploitive private sector are planning in generating livelihood .

i am always all for decent livelihood and employment. everybody deserves the former and should have some form of the latter. i do not have the exact figures, but for sure it was of some significant number. Olongapo and nearby areas lamented how its economy grounded to a halt when the bases were abandoned.

the point is not if it creates employment, but if we can live without it, knowing of the number of unpleasant side-effects that it brings along with it. Olongapo has reinvented itself, surely it's possible.

The presence was only a factor , not the mere reason as a demand because if thats the case , why are SANCIANKO , MANALILI , JUNQUERA , BONIFACIO , MALATE , ERMITA etc still operates and acts as known red light districts in the Philippines ? It only justifies that they are not relying on the Americans but sa locals pod .

your examples (though i wanted to add more locations. hehe ) only serves to bolster the argument of the presence of the demand. if it is present, supply will evidently flock to cater to it. what makes the Olongapo case special is because it caters to a group of people who have dollars in their wallets, and who can be easily identified. you remove them, you remove the demand, the flesh trade dies. local flesh trade is different for obvious reasons.

Was something done on the issue yet ?

none. either it is being denied, ignored, or those responsible simply wants to wash it off their hands. you can google 'toxic subic clark' and you'll see articles from everywhere else and not just from noisy leftists.

(will continue this later. i am hungry. )

[KE-25]

Maybe the right question is, how WORSE are we after they left?

Wanted to be a tad positive , but I hear ya !

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

but wait, there's more, there is something that was placed in its stead. the VFA (full text here) (Visiting Forces Agreement) which essentially allowed US troops in the country, and the not-so-well-known MLSA (Mutual Logistics and Support Agreement) which allowed the visiting forces to get logistical support, supply and services from its host country practically everywhere it wants to.

MLSA states that no permanent bases/structures will be built. but it is not needed when you can just refuel your ships, get ammunition, repair, recalibration, etc, anywhere, effectively turning the entire country into a base itself.

and at a fraction of the price for maintaining Subic and Clark. nice deal, huh?

VFA is needed because its more than rest and relaxation but the mere fact of also giving something to the AFP in terms of training , improved technological warfare and humanitarian services which we can easily say sugar coating lang hehehe .

Sa MLSA ... I am not familiar with it but it sounds and looks like a " ghost or cyber " base which is totally different from the actual base with infrastructures . Let the employment alone speak for itself na non existent and worst , mga buaya ga duwa an as middlemen on the nmbers game with the supply department , heck I was once a assistant to the procurement officer of USS Anchorage LSD 36 . So basically mo boomerang ra gihapon sa atoang gobyerno and not entirely the fault of the Americans where ang presence nila ang na double jeopardy .

Question lang nako ... if the case sa MLSA is that Philippines is working it out , are we that competent enough to supply such amenities like ammunitions , repair and calibration ?

true, crime happens everywhere. the fact that it happens is a problem itself which we can set aside. what is more concerning is how these crimes are treated, and how justice can be sought. in the VFA, custody of a US service personnel charged with a crime in this country is retained by the US, 'until the end of all judicial proceedings', which includes appeals and such that can take forever. even after conviction, where the convicted US personnel is detained can also be agreed upon, as per experience with the Smith case, in the US Embassy. (timeline here)

The incident in Okinawa was that , the Marine was actually punished with slashes and whips , tried , convicted and imprisoned out of their justice system without any intervention from the Americans . Sa Philippines , I would understand also the issue here , heck I dont want to see Americans exploiting our women since mao ni ang common na crime mahitabo but like for the example atong gi rape daw sa Subic na from Zamboanga , I certainly gika ulaw ang akong pagka Filipino to knowing sa kabuang sa babay . regardless of the issue here , the subjects cant escape justice either .... the military has the UCMJ ( Uniform Code of Military Justice ) and trust me , not many would know it its more harsh than civilian prisons . Heard of the brig and the 3 days of bread and water and force labor ? Icing of the cake lang na .

i am always all for decent livelihood and employment. everybody deserves the former and should have some form of the latter. i do not have the exact figures, but for sure it was of some significant number. Olongapo and nearby areas lamented how its economy grounded to a halt when the bases were abandoned.

Not to mention also the locals who can actually join the US NAVY , apply , pass and enlist then become of the cream of the crop of the worlds greatest navy , ang mga pinoy who joined in the Philippines . Mga nakita lately during active duty , puro na mga dirtbags ang mga pinoy who joined abroad .

the point is not if it creates employment, but if we can live without it, knowing of the number of unpleasant side-effects that it brings along with it. Olongapo has reinvented itself, surely it's possible.

Thats exactly what Dick Gordon did but I dont find any large impact . The annual lease alone is a very big chunk na nawala sa national budget in repaying the nations debt . Regarding sa side effects which are probably the hazardous material that were neglected is nothing different when you reside in Naga or in Lutopan where these are places known to be polluted of chemicals . I dont really see any huge difference .

your examples (though i wanted to add more locations. hehe ) only serves to bolster the argument of the presence of the demand. if it is present, supply will evidently flock to cater to it. what makes the Olongapo case special is because it caters to a group of people who have dollars in their wallets, and who can be easily identified. you remove them, you remove the demand, the flesh trade dies. local flesh trade is different for obvious reasons.

Well to that point , I would agree . What is alarming lang pod is the issue of STD . You know whats funny ? A lot of ANTI AMERICANS are cursing these sailors for example of carriers of the disease . Although micro na prblem lang ni siya but since we are talking about red light district , isingit lang nako . in reality baya , nabali man . Its the locals who infected these sailors . How did I know that ? We have quarterly urine , blood , hair and skin test conducted on us for positive of illicit drugs , std's and any other communicable diseases . if you turned out positive , you will be restricted from getting off the boat so that justifies na ang Americans pa ang gi hatagan ug sakit unlike the notion we always thought of na Americans brought the diseases to the Philippines .

none. either it is being denied, ignored, or those responsible simply wants to wash it off their hands. you can google 'toxic subic clark' and you'll see articles from everywhere else and not just from noisy leftists.

I have encountered these articles way back but didnt focus on it . What I am wondering though is , unsay gibuhat sa atong government ? Specially sa term ni Erap ?

(will continue this later. i am hungry. )

Enjoy !!

[Untrue]

kamo nlng sabot ani

Hahaha makatawa lagi anang usa ka pari aie. wai malisya ha.

[budoyski]

Can we just send the leftist to China?

how about afghanistan?!...