Questions/Doubts/Wrong Practices to the Catholic Church--Analysis and Opinion

[malic_2]

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Well you yourself are saying it indirectly, that you do not believe in the authenticity and authorship is questionable? and is that the reason why you have other basis for your faith and beliefs?

you're jumping from one issue to another. we were discussing about the bible but here you're asking about my basis for my faith. Logical fallacy.

***
KJV Dictionary Definition: idolatry
idolatry
IDOL'ATRY, n. L. idololatria. Gr. idol, and to worship or serve.
1. The worship of idols, images, or any thing made by hands, or which is not God.
Idolatry is of two kinds; the worship of images, statues, pictures, &c. made by hands; and the worship of the heavenly bodies,the sun, moon and stars, or of demons, angels, men and animals.
2. Excessive attachment or veneration for any thing, or that which borders on adoration.
-This is the definition of idolatry. This clearly states that to worship or serve anything made by hand and not made by God is idolatry. Images, Statues are included. Now are your representations made by God or not?

take my advice,read their Catechism,there you'll learn the difference between adoration and veneration.

are you that dumb? you said that idolatry is worshiping anything made by human hands, Are heavenly bodies made by hands of men? please take my advice,read their Catechism.

**
This is where it is hard to draw the line, since somehow you compare what was the past and what is now, Cain had intercourse with her sister since there was no one else. And to draw the line and make the law, that is why God made the ten commandments and inspired people to write the Bible, to clearly make a guide on how we should live our lives and how we should worship Him. If you talk about incest, and if you truly believe that we are the descendants of Adam and Eve, somehow, all of us are relatives. Now that would make it a sin, marrying your cousin to the 100th degree, right? Seems absurd?

for you it is but not to them. Read their Catechism don't throw your straw man argument.

way raro ni nga tobag oi, wala mahaom sa topic. ratol na. i was talking about the importance of a provision from the bible if you are to impose your doctrine.

[pinoy_09]

ok, why don't you start the ball rolling?

Let me think of a more dangerous one and I'll get back to you.

[nijazared]

you're jumping from one issue to another. we were discussing about the bible but here you're asking about my basis for my faith. Logical fallacy.

take my advice,read their Catechism,there you'll learn the difference between adoration and veneration.

are you that dumb? you said that idolatry is worshiping anything made by human hands, Are heavenly bodies made by hands of men? please take my advice,read their Catechism.


for you it is but not to them. Read their Catechism don't throw your straw man argument.

way raro ni nga tobag oi, wala mahaom sa topic. ratol na.

Please read the definition of idolatry...ikaw man ang wala nibasa...basaha ra gud usob...

ako e repeat ha...

KJV Dictionary Definition: idolatry
idolatry
IDOL'ATRY, n. L. idololatria. Gr. idol, and to worship or serve.
1. The worship of idols, images, or any thing made by hands, or which is not God.
--
Read this carefully:
--
Idolatry is of two kinds; the worship of images, statues, pictures, &c. made by hands; and the worship of the heavenly bodies,the sun, moon and stars, or of demons, angels, men and animals.
I seperated the two kinds na, the first kind is the one in black and the second one is the one in green.
---
2. Excessive attachment or veneration for any thing, or that which borders on adoration.
--
You keep on saying straw and read the catechism, if you know your catechism then explain why we(the non Catholics) should not consider your adoration of graven images of your Saints and Mary as idolatry but as a representation only.
As we see it, those "representation" is a wrong practice. That is how we analyse it.
No offense but mas wala klaro imo tubag...you just keep on answering:
1. Read the catechism
2. Straw ra na bai
It would be much appreciated if you could show us how catechism explains why your representation should not be considered as idolatry.

[malic_2]

Please read the definition of idolatry...ikaw man ang wala nibasa...basaha ra gud usob...

ako e repeat ha...

KJV Dictionary Definition: idolatry
idolatry
IDOL'ATRY, n. L. idololatria. Gr. idol, and to worship or serve.
1. The worship of idols, images, or any thing made by hands, or which is not God.
--
Read this carefully:
--
Idolatry is of two kinds; the worship of images, statues, pictures, &c. made by hands; and the worship of the heavenly bodies,the sun, moon and stars, or of demons, angels, men and animals.
I seperated the two kinds na, the first kind is the one in black and the second one is the one in green.
---
2. Excessive attachment or veneration for any thing, or that which borders on adoration.
--

mao ba, na hala basaha pod ni og balik kay tan.aw nako naglibog ka.

KJV Dictionary Definition: idolatry
idolatry
IDOL'ATRY, n. L. idololatria. Gr. idol, and to worship or serve.
1. The worship of idols, images, or any thing made by hands, or which is not God.
Idolatry is of two kinds; the worship of images, statues, pictures, &c. made by hands; and the worship of the heavenly bodies,the sun, moon and stars, or of demons, angels, men and animals.
2. Excessive attachment or veneration for any thing, or that which borders on adoration.
-This is the definition of idolatry. This clearly states that to worship or serve anything made by hand and not made by God is idolatry. Images, Statues are included. Now are your representations made by God or not?

klaro kaayo nga naglibog ka. so i'll ask again...are you that dumb? first you said that to worship anything made by human hands is idolatry and yet your definition contradicts your conclusion. Are heavenly bodies made by human hands?

You keep on saying straw and read the catechism, if you know your catechism then explain why we(the non Catholics) should not consider your adoration of graven images of your Saints and Mary as idolatry but as a representation only.
As we see it, those "representation" is a wrong practice. That is how we analyse it.
No offense but mas wala klaro imo tubag...you just keep on answering:
1. Read the catechism
2. Straw ra na bai
It would be much appreciated if you could show us how catechism explains why your representation should not be considered as idolatry.

BECAUSE it is a straw man argument. Call black black. do you want me to call it white?

that would take awhile dodong or inday. if you are an experienced apologist then you should know these things. kapoy og spoonfeed oi. basaha sa ilang Catechism,do your assignment then come back here nya atong e discuss.

[nijazared]

mao ba, na hala basaha pod ni og balik kay tan.aw nako naglibog ka.
klaro kaayo nga naglibog ka. so i'll ask again...are you that dumb? first you said that to worship anything made by human hands is idolatry and yet your definition contradicts your conclusion. Are heavenly bodies made by human hands?


BECAUSE it is a straw man argument. Call black black. do you want me to call it white?

that would take awhile dodong or inday. if you are an experienced apologist then you should know these things. kapoy og spoonfeed oi. basaha sa ilang Catechism,do your assignment then come back here nya atong e discuss.

Ako nlng binisay.on ha...you call me dumb but you are the one that does not understand the definition. E simplify na lang jud nko ni para nimo ha.

Idolatry is of two kinds; 1.the worship of images, statues, pictures, &c. made by hands;<--kani siya is the first kind, pagsimba sa mga imahe statwa ug litrato nga gigama sa tawo.
Giseparate ang two kinds with a semi colon, pasabot, dili na siya usahon.

2.the worship of the heavenly bodies,the sun, moon and stars, or of demons, angels, men and animals.<<--ang ika duha nga klase...pagsimba sa mga butang sa kalibutan sama sa adlaw, buwan ug bito.on...apil na pod ang mga demonyo, anghel, mga tawo ug mga hayop.

Imo man tawon gi usa ang definition...kaklaro na bya ana...now read again and understand before you call me dumb. Now, if you still cannot understand my point and the clarification that i'm trying to get then it would be better nga dili na lang ka mu reply kay dili man gihapon ka kasabot. No offense lang bai, kapoy naman gud explain balik balik then dili gihapon kasabot bah.

[malic_2]

Ako nlng binisay.on ha...you call me dumb but you are the one that does not understand the definition. E simplify na lang jud nko ni para nimo ha.

Idolatry is of two kinds; 1.the worship of images, statues, pictures, &c. made by hands;<--kani siya is the first kind, pagsimba sa mga imahe statwa ug litrato nga gigama sa tawo.
Giseparate ang two kinds with a semi colon, pasabot, dili na siya usahon.

2.the worship of the heavenly bodies,the sun, moon and stars, or of demons, angels, men and animals.<<--ang ika duha nga klase...pagsimba sa mga butang sa kalibutan sama sa adlaw, buwan ug bito.on...apil na pod ang mga demonyo, anghel, mga tawo ug mga hayop.

Imo man tawon gi usa ang definition...kaklaro na bya ana...now read again and understand before you call me dumb. Now, if you still cannot understand my point and the clarification that i'm trying to get then it would be better nga dili na lang ka mu reply kay dili man gihapon ka kasabot. No offense lang bai, kapoy naman gud explain balik balik then dili gihapon kasabot bah.

hahaha, ikaw man sigoro wa kasabot. ka klaro anang 1 and 2 sa first nimo nga post sa definition. but thank you sa imong pagbalik balik but balikon gihapon nako. tan.awa og klaro imo gi post.

KJV Dictionary Definition: idolatry
idolatry
IDOL'ATRY, n. L. idololatria. Gr. idol, and to worship or serve.
1. The worship of idols, images, or any thing made by hands, or which is not God.
Idolatry is of two kinds; the worship of images, statues, pictures, &c. made by hands; and the worship of the heavenly bodies,the sun, moon and stars, or of demons, angels, men and animals.
2. Excessive attachment or veneration for any thing, or that which borders on adoration.
-This is the definition of idolatry. This clearly states that to worship or serve anything made by hand and not made by God is idolatry. Images, Statues are included. Now are your representations made by God or not?

sige obserbahe kono imong post. tan.awa imong sayop. first you gave the definitions then at the end you made a conclusion that contradicts your definition. wa ka kasabot sa imong gi post?

tinood oi kapoy og balik balik, labi na kong gosto gyud KA molosot sa imong sayop.

but anyway this is not the issue. in my previous post I asked you for a verse said by Jesus where he mentions that it is wrong to make statues.

don't give me a definition from a dictionary. give me a verse from the bible.

nya dodong or inday, you are using a protestant dictionary nga obviously kontra sa katoliko. di ka ma owaw ana?

[d.a.m.a.s.o.]

^^ You're just shooting blanks.. Don't give me those verses with twisted interpretations.
We are talking about the history of our church. Why can't you provide one?

I'll make it easy for you, what is your church denomination? and who founded it? when and where?

Woo hindi na makasagot? Alin ang twisted jan? wapak! apostolink link pinagmamalaki mo?

1Th 2:14 Sapagka't kayo, mga kapatid, ay nagsitulad sa mga iglesia ng Dios na nasa Judea kay Cristo Jesus: sapagka't nagsipagbata naman kayo sa inyong sariling mga kababayan, gaya naman nila sa mga Judio;

Act 1:8 Datapuwa't tatanggapin ninyo ang kapangyarihan, pagdating sa inyo ng Espiritu Santo: at kayo'y magiging mga saksi ko sa Jerusalem, at sa buong Judea at Samaria, at hanggang sa kahulihulihang hangganan ng lupa.

I belong to the Church of God in the bible. Jesus is the founder

Sa Jerusalem itinayo, kumalat sa Judea at Samaria. Papaanong aabot sa Pilipinas eh patay na ang mga apostol? Eh di isinulat sa Biblia ang mga aral

Paano kami naging member? Eh di sumampalataya sa aral! walang physical/history connection kailangan!

[d.a.m.a.s.o.]

Just want to share: Prophecy ng isang apostol:

Act 20:28 Ingatan ninyo ang inyong sarili, at ang buong kawan, na sa kanila'y ginawa kayo ng Espiritu Santo na mga obispo, upang pakanin ninyo ang iglesia ng Panginoon na binili niya ng kaniyang sariling dugo.
Act 20:29 Aking talastas na pagalis ko ay magsisipasok sa inyo ang mga ganid na lobo, na hindi mangagpapatawad sa kawan;
Act 20:30 At magsisilitaw sa mga kasamahan din ninyo ang mga taong mangagsasalita ng mga bagay na masasama, upang mangagdala ng mga alagad sa kanilang hulihan.

Pag-alis pala ng mga apostol, may mga magsisilitaw na mga "anti-kristo", mangangaral ng masama, ILALAGAY ANG ALAGAD sa kanilang hulihan.

1Ti 4:1 Nguni't hayag na sinasabi ng Espiritu, na sa mga huling panahon ang iba'y magsisitalikod sa pananampalataya, at mangakikinig sa mga espiritung mapanghika.yat at sa mga aral ng mga demonio,
1Ti 4:2 Sa pamamagitan ng pagpapaimbabaw ng mga tao na nagsisipagsalita ng mga kasinungalingan, na hinerohan ang kanilang mga sariling budhi ng waring bakal na nagbabaga;
1Ti 4:3 Na ipinagbabawal ang pagaasawa, at ipinaguutos na lumayo sa mga lamangkati, na nilalang ng Dios upang tanggapin na may pagpapasalamat ng mga nagsisisampalataya at nangakakaalam ng katotohanan.

Natupad ang verse na ito sa Simabahang katoliko. hehe. Sila ang kauna-unahang religion na nagbawal nang pag-aasawa.

300-306 C.E.[ii] or 310 C.E.[iii]
Council of Elvira (a regional council in Spain) produced Canon 33: It is decided that marriage be altogether prohibited to bishops, priests, and deacons, or to all clerics placed in the ministry, and that they keep away from their wives and not beget children; whoever does this, shall be deprived of the honor of the clerical office.[iv] Most priests ignored this regional decree.[v]

[nijazared]

hahaha, ikaw man sigoro wa kasabot. ka klaro anang 1 and 2 sa first nimo nga post sa definition. but thank you sa imong pagbalik balik but balikon gihapon nako. tan.awa og klaro imo gi post.


[/B]sige obserbahe kono imong post. tan.awa imong sayop. first you gave the definitions then at the end you made a conclusion that contradicts your definition. wa ka kasabot sa imong gi post?

tinood oi kapoy og balik balik, labi na kong gosto gyud KA molosot sa imong sayop.

but anyway this is not the issue. in my previous post I asked you for a verse said by Jesus where he mentions that it is wrong to make statues.

don't give me a definition from a dictionary. give me a verse from the bible.

nya dodong or inday, you are using a protestant dictionary nga obviously kontra sa katoliko. di ka ma owaw ana?

-This is the definition of idolatry. This clearly states that to worship or serve anything made by hand and not made by God is idolatry<<---if you mean this sentence then I did use a term that might not be proper, but if you read the whole context you will get what I mean-kung e elaborate jud, it would mean that it isn't considered idolatry in the case of the bronze serpent since the people weren't commanded to worship the bronze serpent.
But you are straying away from my main concern, which was the last question-
Now are your representations made by God or not?
-you are taking this question literally- (literal man jud kaayo ka so I will elaborate) What I mean by asking this question is if the representations you have were commanded by God to be present when you worship Him?
Now, do you call a sentence which ends with a question mark a conclusion?
Wala ko ni losot sa akong sayop, i did not deem it possible nga you would take it literally word for word and not by context. So pasensya na.
**
Now, for your request. I will take it from the 10 commandments:
Let me start by stating this verse:
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

now, let me define graven image:
idol: a material effigy that is worshipped
to make it clear- i will also define effigy:
effigy:a representation of a person (especially in the form of sculpture); "the coin bears an effigy of Lincoln"; "the emperor's tomb had his image carved in stone"

now what do you call a statue? is it not a representation of a person? or in other words a graven image?

Now to continue...
Exodus 20:3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

If you notice, God first gave the command not to have any other gods before him, and then on the next verse he made it more detailed as to what is not to be made- graven images(read Exodus 20:4)

and on the next verse:
Exodus 20:5
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;
--
all three verses are in line with each other...
let me summarize,
in verse 3, God commanded that there shall be no other gods before him, in verse 4, he further commanded that we shalt not make any graven images, and in verse 5, he continues to command that we shall not bow down nor serve these graven images or idols.

By the way, I also made it clear, I am using the King James Version of the Bible as a reference, not a Protestant Bible, and I am not a Protestant, I am a believer of God and the Bible.

[monrose29]

seriously guys informative inyo panaglalis but unhealthy ka ayo tan awo or basohon inyong panag lalis isa pa why catholic ra man how bout the other religions?

lalis and debate ra atong makuha deri kong kinsay sakto and kinsay sayop...

sorry but i think i need to closed this and PM lang mo admin or write a protest why ato neh padayonon..

resipetaray nalang gud unta ta kong unsay atong gi sunod nga religion.. di man gyud ta magkasabot aneh kong atong ipa mugos nga sayop ang catholic sakto ang lain religions..