How ARTISTIC and LITERATE are Cebuanos?

[IceInHeLL]

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How artistic and literate are Cebuanos? Or are they still naive?

I have heard of Cebuano talents and arts.

I have heard of telecenter coming to Cebu to put up a business coz of Cebuanos' english proficiency.

But are they really a manifestation of a superior (yet untapped) race? Or are they just a few, an accident, or sheer minority?

Is english proficiency a mirror of one's level of being literate? or merely just trying to become a copycat of what is already a noted superior race?

Do we differ from the rest of the country? Are we just second best? Or....are we much more than what we think we are?


Mon futur depend du ce aujurd'hui......
(My future depends on the things I do today....)



Icei Nhell

[milk]

you just don't know how.... =D. who who would know? statistics will tell. i just don't have the record. heh

[wayuk]

How artistic and literate are Cebuanos? Or are they still naive?

I have heard of Cebuano talents and arts.

I have heard of telecenter coming to Cebu to put up a business coz of Cebuanos' english proficiency.

But are they really a manifestation of a superior (yet untapped) race? Or are they just a few, an accident, or sheer minority?

Is english proficiency a mirror of one's level of being literate? or merely just trying to become a copycat of what is already a noted superior race?

Do we differ from the rest of the country? Are we just second best? Or....are we much more than what we think we are?


Mon futur depend du ce aujurd'hui......
(My future depends on the things I do today....)



IceiÂ* Nhell

proficiency in a second spoken/foreign language IS a gauge of literacy... and i react strongly to the suggestion of imitating a superior race. the quest for knowledge through education is a self-fulfilling act, i doubt if one's purpose is merely due to envy or maki-uso because everyone else is in school.

i don't know the stats but there are a number of the people residing in cebu who are not "lumad", they have roots from other places in the visayas & mindanao. i think it would be too assuming to brand cebu's talents as purely 'cebuano'; ergo, the claim of being superior or otherwise is relative. other localities should be given the distinction due them.

how is a superior race defined? is this self-acclaimed? is this delegated by those who deem themselves inferior (read: hopeless)? how is superiority measured?

what separates art & literacy with naivete?... are those prolific in english literate artists; whilst those who aren't naive?

i am at a loss... Â*

[MrBiddle]

We are already starting to be tapped.... Cebuanos have the neccessary caustic wit and perceptiveness needed to build artistic integrity in our work.

[diem]

This is one of the silliest topics I've found so far on istorya.net.. can't believe the level of ennui i must be suffering this morning just to react to this...

How artistic and literate are Cebuanos? Or are they still naive?
I have heard of Cebuano talents and arts. I have heard of telecenter coming to Cebu to put up a business coz of Cebuanos' english proficiency.

Heard, heard.... man, you should go out more and see the abundance of Cebuano talents not only locally here in Cebu but in Manila and abroad too... where do you think those who are popular on and behind the silver and TV screen come from? who do you think comes up with those great local MTVs of Slapshock, Kyla, and Bamboo? Those TV commercials of Coca Cola? Fashion, photography, graphic design... dude get out there and open your eyes to the truth...

How artistic and literate are Cebuanos? Or are they still naive?
But are they really a manifestation of a superior (yet untapped) race? Or are they just a few, an accident, or sheer minority? Is english proficiency a mirror of one's level of being literate? or merely just trying to become a copycat of what is already a noted superior race?

A copycat of already NOTED SUPERIOR RACE...? Do you have such low self-esteem for Filipinos, for Cebuanos that you would consider us inferiors, trying hard to emulate a superior race? I'd agree with you if you just said thanks to the SUPERIOR naval skills of the English Navy, the English language floated and accepted all the around the world...

The English Language is a bastard language tracing its roots from a whole slew of parent languages: German, Anglosaxon, Latin, Roman, Greek, heck even Turkish and every day it changes, every year the Webster dictionary comes up with an edition filled to the brim w/ new words taken from different countries, even the Filipino language...

And yet, English isn't the most widely spoken language in the world... it happens to be Chinese.. and there are a lot of of Western conglomerates seeking to branch into the China Mainland for business, forcing their employees to deal in the Chinese language.

How artistic and literate are Cebuanos? Or are they still naive?
Do we differ from the rest of the country? Are we just second best? Or....are we much more than what we think we are?

No, we are not THAT different. Within each and every Filipino, within each and every human lies the potential, the seed of greatness... and it is just more than genetic heritage or the environment that decides who succeeds or who fails... basically its in the individual himself/herself who must have the drive to excel...

How artistic and literate are Cebuanos? Or are they still naive?
Mon futur depend du ce aujurd'hui......
(My future depends on the things I do today....)

I hope you learned something for your future because it seems to me your mind is still stuck during the colonial times... wake up, its already the Millenium, the whole world has changed.

[IceInHeLL]

I say...."huh?"!

People...CHILL OUT!

First of all, I don't see any implications from my statements that Cebuanos are any lesser, nor do I suggest that they are any better. The only implication I can see from my statement is my innocence to answer my own questions...and that is the reason why they were asked in the first place.

Duh...

So before I proceed any further, please take note that the statements are in the interogative and not in a declarative form.

wayuk: "how is a superior race defined? is this self-acclaimed? is this delegated by those who deem themselves inferior (read: hopeless)? how is superiority measured?"

ICE: I think superiority is gauge on specific events or manifestations depending on which areas are we talking about. We have the Olympic events for sports, various international musical events for music, economic manifestations on how well a country can manage themselves and so on....

wayuk: "i don't know the stats but there are a number of the people residing in cebu who are not "lumad", they have roots from other places in the visayas & mindanao. i think it would be too assuming to brand cebu's talents as purely 'cebuano'; ergo, the claim of being superior or otherwise is relative. other localities should be given the distinction due them."

ICE: True! But it is beyond my topic. I am more interested on my own people.

wayuk: "what separates art & literacy with naivete?... are those prolific in english literate artists; whilst those who aren't naive?"

ICE: English proficiency shouldn't be a gauge for being literate coz a lot of non-english speaking individuals was able to taste the glory of a Nobel Prize for literature. I say, art and literature could be expressed in any language. A book could still be appreciated if its any good irregardless of which language it is written...say, in Cebuano. Or a movie coud still be a hit if the storyline and the script is good with much attention to various areas such as photgraphy, lighting, acting, etc...even if it is made entirely in Cebuano. Has there been any of these? architecture, painting, and various fields of the arts need not have any spoken language, but do we have anyone who have garnered admiration?

diem: "This is one of the silliest topics I've found so far on istorya.net.. can't believe the level of ennui i must be suffering this morning just to react to this..."

ICE: Since when is talking about oneself silly? And since when is gauging one's capability or reviewing what we are capable of something one should "suffer" just to react? One could never fully develop if one does not see where.

diem: "dude get out there and open your eyes to the truth..."

ICE: I have, mind you, and I have noticed them (although not all). But are they any superior to others? Are they really something that we could be proud of given the artistry side of the work and not just because they are made by Cebuanos? Or are they elementary compared to the work of others?

diem: "No, we are not THAT different. Within each and every Filipino, within each and every human lies the potential, the seed of greatness... and it is just more than genetic heritage or the environment that decides who succeeds or who fails... basically its in the individual himself/herself who must have the drive to excel..."

ICE: I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this one. Genetic and environmental factors do play a great role in shaping an individual. Artist and genuises did not become who they are just because they want to be one. Not everyone has a taste for art and not everyone has the gene for intellectual proceedings. Environment proposes the inspiration and paves way for achieving what is granted to be good. Although genetic and environmental factors are not alone to decide which one "succeeds or fails", but they do make up the pillar for success or failure.

diem: "Do you have such low self-esteem for Filipinos, for Cebuanos that you would consider us inferiors, trying hard to emulate a superior race? I'd agree with you if you just said thanks to the SUPERIOR naval skills of the English Navy, the English language floated and accepted all the around the world..."

ICE: No dear Sir, I have no such view to Filipinos or the Cebuanos in particular. Perhaps it didn't occur to you that I am a Cebuano as well. Though not pure by breed, but one's nationality nor nativity should not be based on blood but on the heart. I know a person who is born by Cebuano parents and grew up entirely in Cebu but is not proud to be one. I don't think he is then. The native land does not need somebody who doesn't accept who he is.

It is not my view entirely. It is on the papers and the tube where the government and some of it's people claim that Cebuanos have what it takes because of it's english proficiency. The Japanese primarily didn't need English ot get them a seat in the G8. Superior Race...why you don't believe in one? I say some race are superior than us in given fields...would you deny that? In arts and literature...have WE proven ourselves that we do have the talent for it? The problem with people is they tend to be very nationalistic that they become i-love-my-own types. Its like going to a movie. A lot of times when a Filipino movie is reviewed as something "very excellent work...a must see", or "among the greatest movies I have ever seen". Though its a marketing strategy, but it shouldn't be if it came from the critiques. But why such a case? There is nothing wrong of being proud of ourselves but we shouldn't be proud of something we know needs more work. Instead, we should work for it to be proud. Furthermore, I never declared that english proficiency entails artistic nor literature prowess...I merely state in a interrogative statement what is an accepted misunderstanding.

diem: "and there are a lot of of Western conglomerates seeking to branch into the China Mainland for business, forcing their employees to deal in the Chinese language."

ICE: Yes, for a reason one should never be proud of...LOW MANPOWER PAY!

diem: "I hope you learned something for your future because it seems to me your mind is still stuck during the colonial times... wake up, its already the Millenium, the whole world has changed."

ICE: My mind is not stuck anywhere it shouldn't be. And thank you...I did learn from you. If Cebuanos are like you, then our development, irregardless of any field, will be slow. One should never stick to something they think "will do" but should aim for something which "will definitely make us proud". I believe that Cebuanos have something...but then again..."How artistic and literate are we?


To the rest, I would like to reiterate that this is merely a question that is aimed to review one's self. I have not declared anything in my primary post. Instead, they were all asked. Thank you for those who have replied. My apologies if I have said anything that may generate any negative emotions. This is an intellectual quest, not a ridiculous racial nor local discrimination as what others are trying to convey. I am open to any other views or replies as long as you are not "suffering" from anything in the process.

[gareb]

this thread is biting off more than it can chew.

it first attempts to inquire on the artistic merits of Cebuanos but goes way off by asking about how literate Cebuanos are. and then it further off goes into assuming that english proficiency as the basis of literacy. and then it finally falls apart with the introduction of the ideas with regards to race and racial superiority.

i am at a loss at how these highly varied topics came to be fused in such a few questions. they are not even closely related.

Literacy, ladies and gentlemen, is simply the ability to read and write, that is, in any language; may it be Cebuano, Tagalog, English, French, or Bantu. so it follows that a very big chunk of the Cebuano population is literate. and that is that.

on the question if Cebuanos are artistic, well, you have to go and witness the local cultural literati and judge for yourself if what they do comes close to what you may term as art. bear in mind that the influences of everything we can call 'Cebuano' is a melange of different socio-linguistic cultures within and outside the borders of this country.

Race, which is a segregationist idea based loosely on physical characteristics, is a false concept. do not confuse it with the term ethnicity, which is based on cultural background and affiliation. no race or ethnicity for that matter can ever be called 'superior' in a holistic sense. that was the grand mistake of the Aryan supremacist Nazi. let us not reproduce their mistake, please.



so it comes to this. due to the incompatibility of the subjects recklessly crammed into this thread, we can either,


1.) retain this thread and discuss on the 'artistic merits' of Cebuanos,

2.) discuss on literacy and if indeed there are Cebuanos that cannot read and write in any language,

3.) move this to the Politics and Current Events and make this focus on english proficiency,

4.) move this to the Politics and Current Events to discuss about race and racial superiority.

[The_Child]

A sincere question of "self-review" shouldnt be answered with a typical idiotic comments such as "This is one of the silliest topics I've found so far on istorya.net.. can't believe the level of ennui i must be suffering this morning just to react to this..." I believe such a question merits a decent answer in our part of those who are replying, subjective it may be as long as its a decent answer. Questions are of course "silly" things in themselves such is why its end is towards an answer.

But are they really a manifestation of a superior (yet untapped) race? Or are they just a few, an accident, or sheer minority? Superior race? i doubt. The Filipino is a hodge-podge of races since the pre-hispanic times.Besides the Politics of being a Filipino, Do we have a race we could call our own? No.

Is english proficiency a mirror of one's level of being literate? or merely just trying to become a copycat of what is already a noted superior race? I dont believe that there is a superior race now. And I believe that english proficiency mirrors being literate but only on the English language perspective. But still, mere Literacy is not the same with "practical literacy" the former limited only to read and write and the latter is actually the comprehension part. So merely being able to read and write is really different from understanding the concepts, the ideas in what was read or written. Now the difference between the Japs and us is that the Japs are SIGNIFICANT builders of "World Culture" in a sense that they have a culture and language that is bigger than ours. By bigger i would mean, they are greatly self-sufficient with their language and culture. They imprint their culture in their creation that influences the world. GOdzilla is Japanese and besides that Jap Animes are very popular and most of them dont use the English language. They have words for many things, they have technical terms especially in engineering that doesnt have to be in english, do we have such a feat in our language that is even close to the japanese? No.
Even during the pre-hispanic times, there was no uniform language that was spoken entirely in this archipelago.
Now it wouldnt be fair to say that we are copycats because it was in our history to be influenced by americans. We speak english because we are Americanized. Take away english in our society and you take away a piece of our essence as a Nation..

Do we differ from the rest of the country? Are we just second best? Or....are we much more than what we think we are? Yes we differ. The mere presence of different dialects among filipinos is a proof that there is more than one culture in the Philippines. Being the best on what? the idea that pits us to implicating ourselves as second best or for that matter other ethnoliguistic groups (if that is what you meant) implicating themselves as second or third or etc.... is only because, i believe that National Pride is centered in the Capital which is Manila but they are not the best thats for sure.

[The_Child]

Now on a simpler note. Taking away all the ballyhoos in the thread and going back to the grassroot Subject " How ARtistic and literate are Cebuanos?"

Literacy conforms to a given system so literacy could be measure thus the question How is valid on the matter of literacy and could be best answered by Statistical data.
But Art could never be objectively Quantified because Art is subjective. Most of the Theories of Art if not all dictates that Art revolves around the "I" or the Self. So how artistic are Cebuanos is of course subjective and also in a sense invalid. Invalid because if what is meant by How is a question of degree or measurement then Art could never be objectively quantified as i earlier mentioned. Subjective because Art revolves around the Self and not what society decides it would be.

So in a sense the statement of Cebuanos' naivete plays no part or makes has no connection with artistry among Cebuanos. For what is sure is that as long as you are Human you are bound to create art. No Human Being is incapable of Artistry. It is like saying a Fish is incapable of living in the water.

[IceInHeLL]

Thank you dear child. I sure hope to get more opinions such as yours. The main question should be the center of attention for the proceedings were merely "often mentioned" perception which are contradictory in nature.

I am open to more opinion, but please refrain for any degratory statements for such will only create negative emotions thus it does not pave the way for personal growth.

On art, though it is subjective, but isn't there mainstream art? What could have posed problems if Cebuanos really are artistic to be recognized in the mainstream? Movies, paintings, music, architecture, sculpture, literature....