MERGED: CPP-NPA-NDF Discussions (Issues, Updates, etc.)

[rodsky]

if u believe that the current world is still immature for true communism, mura2x ra sab ko mkaingon nga the current world is not yet mature to be ready for true democracy.

I would agree with that, yes.

if u say that there were Marx, Lenin, and others espousing communism/socialism, there were also great men who espoused diff. forms of democracy. you cannot say communism is right and democracy is wrong, or vice versa. they could be both right, or wrong, or something in between. whichever u choose, that's the path that u will have to take. either u evolve the communism u had before and now or the democracy u have before and now into something post-modern.

I apologize if you thought that I was painting things in, black and white, and that this is wrong or that is right--I'm just saying that, like how the so-called "communist states" like the Soviet Union and North Korea have failed in their attempts to create a true communist state, proponents of Democracy and Capitalism also have their pitfalls.

watching American idol? what's wrong with that?
debating whether who should be the next US president? what's wrong with that?

those don't make a person socially immature...for pete's sakes.

Watching TV creates need. Most of these needs are artificial. If you examine it closely, people don't really need skin whiteners, or gluthathione, or havanias slippers--however, with the power of advertisement in television and mass media, the big companies can make people believe that they need these things. Now, along with showing soap operas, and reality shows, and shows like "etc. Idol", these hand in hand, create a society wherein ordinary people start craving to be like this girl, or that girl, or worse, they start being complacent and decadent because they begin to have inferiority feelings that they will never be this person or that person. This is the empire and money-machine that has been created by our current society--you cannot admit that people who behave as if they were "slaves" to watching "Dysebel" (can't miss an episode!) or who's the latest date/GF/BF of this movie star, or "the latest cellfone or gadget that I need need need to have!" and etc etc etc the list goes on and on.

...and if you try to dig in deeper--why do people crave in the first place? Because their stressful jobs (which is part of one big machinery of capitalism) make them need these things to compensate their efforts. This also includes for most part, the tobacco and alcohol industry--I mean seriously, do we really need them? They are health hazards for Pete's sake...time and time again we have heard scientific reports about how harmful they are and yet we keep on gobbling them up--to the smile on the faces of people like Lucio Tan et al...yes, you, the call center agent, is now happily drunk, because you just got your dream iPhone, yet your smile is lesser than the smile of the people on the corporate boardroom, because their strategy for profit seems to be working (for now)...it's a long and sad story...

Burt Rutan, in this excellent video ( YouTube - Burt Rutan: Houston, we have a problem! : TEDTalks ) has mentioned that today, when you ask a teenager what is his/her concept of "technology", the immediate answer will be "the next cellphone model, or the next iPod"...ergo, the youth today have such a narrow-minded view when it comes to the future of mankind, owing mainly to consumerism!. So what should be the outlook of the youth when it comes to talking about the future of mankind then?

Stephen W. Hawking, the eminent Nuclear Physicist and Astronomer, has time and time again stated that, unless humans stop concentrating on earth-bound frivolities (which is being encouraged by the current economic system! i.e. without healthy consumerism, there can be no profit!), humankind is doomed. Which is why he had to do this... YouTube - Professor Stephen Hawking Takes Zero-Gravity Flight ...even if it was hard for him, to try and inspire young people to stop thinking about technology as only about cellphones, gadgets and other "wants" of the current youth, and instead, focus their attention on space technology and advancing the goals of science and the future of humanity.

Also, Rutan's video criticizes the current NASA methodology in going to the moon, that since it's a government project, they're actually trying to go to the moon "without learning anything new" in the process...which is very counter-human, from my point of view, but from the point of view of government officials and trying to appease tax-payers (who will vote for them, and here I bring the point of pulling in the Obama-Clinton-McCain thing in my last post) and actually exist just to appease a nation of consumers that need to keep on buying in order to satisfy their phantom needs.

Again, for me this is not anymore an issue of communism vs. democracy...I'm just saying I'm against consumerism (which is an obvious by-product of capitalism in a "democratic society") and the type of youth culture it is creating--this sort of trend will eventually erode a lot of important objectives as a race, and also slows down the process on the road to social maturity.

-RODION

[giddyboy]

Watching TV creates need. Most of these needs are artificial. If you examine it closely, people don't really need skin whiteners, or gluthathione, or havanias slippers--however, with the power of advertisement in television and mass media, the big companies can make people believe that they need these things. Now, along with showing soap operas, and reality shows, and shows like "etc. Idol", these hand in hand, create a society wherein ordinary people start craving to be like this girl, or that girl, or worse, they start being complacent and decadent because they begin to have inferiority feelings that they will never be this person or that person. This is the empire and money-machine that has been created by our current society--you cannot admit that people who behave as if they were "slaves" to watching "Dysebel" (can't miss an episode!) or who's the latest date/GF/BF of this movie star, or "the latest cellfone or gadget that I need need need to have!" and etc etc etc the list goes on and on.

...and if you try to dig in deeper--why do people crave in the first place? Because their stressful jobs (which is part of one big machinery of capitalism) make them need these things to compensate their efforts. This also includes for most part, the tobacco and alcohol industry--I mean seriously, do we really need them? They are health hazards for Pete's sake...time and time again we have heard scientific reports about how harmful they are and yet we keep on gobbling them up--to the smile on the faces of people like Lucio Tan et al...yes, you, the call center agent, is now happily drunk, because you just got your dream iPhone, yet your smile is lesser than the smile of the people on the corporate boardroom, because their strategy for profit seems to be working (for now)...it's a long and sad story...

Burt Rutan, in this excellent video ( YouTube - Burt Rutan: Houston, we have a problem! : TEDTalks ) has mentioned that today, when you ask a teenager what is his/her concept of "technology", the immediate answer will be "the next cellphone model, or the next iPod"...ergo, the youth today have such a narrow-minded view when it comes to the future of mankind, owing mainly to consumerism!. So what should be the outlook of the youth when it comes to talking about the future of mankind then?

Stephen W. Hawking, the eminent Nuclear Physicist and Astronomer, has time and time again stated that, unless humans stop concentrating on earth-bound frivolities (which is being encouraged by the current economic system! i.e. without healthy consumerism, there can be no profit!), humankind is doomed. Which is why he had to do this... YouTube - Professor Stephen Hawking Takes Zero-Gravity Flight ...even if it was hard for him, to try and inspire young people to stop thinking about technology as only about cellphones, gadgets and other "wants" of the current youth, and instead, focus their attention on space technology and advancing the goals of science and the future of humanity.

Also, Rutan's video criticizes the current NASA methodology in going to the moon, that since it's a government project, they're actually trying to go to the moon "without learning anything new" in the process...which is very counter-human, from my point of view, but from the point of view of government officials and trying to appease tax-payers (who will vote for them, and here I bring the point of pulling in the Obama-Clinton-McCain thing in my last post) and actually exist just to appease a nation of consumers that need to keep on buying in order to satisfy their phantom needs.

Again, for me this is not anymore an issue of communism vs. democracy...I'm just saying I'm against consumerism (which is an obvious by-product of capitalism in a "democratic society") and the type of youth culture it is creating--this sort of trend will eventually erode a lot of important objectives as a race, and also slows down the process on the road to social maturity.

-RODION

well, that's also noteworthy that u mentioned about your long opinion on consumerism. it's quite off-topic na but murag pwede pa.

u said that "watching TV creates need." i think it's more of creating the WANTS than the NEEDS instead.

and if we look at tv ads like glutathione, tobacco and alcohol, yes, they are health hazards. mao btaw naay ibutang nila nga "IF SYMPTOMS PERSIST, CONSULT A DOCTOR", "SMOKING IS DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH", or "DRINK MODERATELY". anyhow we see it, they are still products that could be sold. Ug naa ra na sa tawo kng mgpada or dili sa produkto. it's a personal choice. ky bsan walaon pa na nimo ang glutthione, mangita gyud na ug laing paagi kung gusto ka moputi. bsan mawala pa ang sigarilyo, mangita gyud ug paagi mka tabako, bsan dahon-lumboy pa na. kung mawala ang alcohol, aw simbako lang. unsaon nlng kng walay Red Horse...hehe

(shabu man gani nga bsan pa dakop dre ug dakop did2, sikop dre sikop did2, naa man lang gani gihapon. other than ngkabarato, ngka improve pa gyud...faetz!)

and regarding tv shows, mangita gyud na ang mga networks ug programs that could rake in high ratings. i know there there are some non-sense shows, but i think some are also very useful and informative. like National Geographic, and Discovery for example. For local shows naay SINESKWELA and GO NEGOSYO...mao btaw naay term nga "BALANCED PROGRAMMING". again, watching what shows u like is a personal choice. if ur still a kid, it's a parental choice.

As w/ cellphones, haay ambot lng. Ang Pinoy buang gyud ana...same w/ skin whiteners...

anyways, we better get back to the topic. till next time...

[rodsky]

well, that's also noteworthy that u mentioned about your long opinion on consumerism. it's quite off-topic na but murag pwede pa.

u said that "watching TV creates need." i think it's more of creating the WANTS than the NEEDS instead.

and if we look at tv ads like glutathione, tobacco and alcohol, yes, they are health hazards. mao btaw naay ibutang nila nga "IF SYMPTOMS PERSIST, CONSULT A DOCTOR", "SMOKING IS DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH", or "DRINK MODERATELY". anyhow we see it, they are still products that could be sold. Ug naa ra na sa tawo kng mgpada or dili sa produkto. it's a personal choice. ky bsan walaon pa na nimo ang glutthione, mangita gyud na ug laing paagi kung gusto ka moputi. bsan mawala pa ang sigarilyo, mangita gyud ug paagi mka tabako, bsan dahon-lumboy pa na. kung mawala ang alcohol, aw simbako lang. unsaon nlng kng walay Red Horse...hehe

Kana man gud ang problema bay--the concept of personal choice. Personal choice can be an illusion in a society that encourages people to buy--where's the choice now, if left and right mabangga imong nawong sa advertisement? The other day I saw a cat on the road, naay sticker sa luyo nga "Buy Palmolive Shampoo!"--looya sa iring oy, nahimong walking advertisement.

Murag kanang isyu sa bana nga ginakulata iyang asawa--if you ask the woman if she will leave her husband because she has a choice, she will still say "wala ko'y choice kay siya man ang tig-buhi!" Binuang--pwede man siya unta mangita ug livelihood for herself--so why doesn't she leaveAng tinood, tapulan man magtrabaho, so bisag ginakulata sa bana, bahala na basta lang naay makaon ug naay kwarta gikan sa bana, para makapalit ug make-up (pang beauty na, pang cover pa sa bun-og! shakes head).

-RODION

[Talyo]

What is the material basis that a new society emerge and the old existing one destroyed or being destroyed? I think this question is very important in answering the question if humanity or society is ready for communism.

When the existing system, capitalist system is in its permanent decline and crisis, that means that its relation of production becomes a FETTER to the development of the productive forces. When that situation is reach, then OBJECTIVELY, communism is ripe. But there is the other requisite: the level of consciousness of the class that is the grave-digger of capitalism -- the proletariat.

Is the proletariat as an INTERNATIONAL CLASS (not as atomized individuals) ready for communism?

I might agree that their class consciousness is not yet ready. But their consciousness is not stagnant, it is developing. We can see that in the world-wide resurgence of the defensive struggles of the class against the attacks of capital. Secondly, the development of communist consciousness within the class is not homogenous. There are individuals within the class that faster than others to understand communism. These politically advance individuals are products of the class struggles and not the other way round. They are the emanantion of the class. These are the revolutionary minorities around the world that emerged since the late '60s after the end of the 50 years of counter-revolution of Stalinism.

What I mean is, in "measuring" the consciousness of the class, we should also consider the emergence of the new generation of workers questioning not only capitalism but also the dominant but banckrupt ideologies of Leftism -- maoism, stalinism, trotskyism and anarchism -- in which many still believe as "communist" groups or parties.

For me, class struggle itself, the rising militancy and solidarity of the workers around the world are major factors to accelerate communist consciousness within the class.

Communist revolutionaries have the duty to accelerate this process.

[maynardmurlon]

At some point @rodsky and @giddyboy are right however the discussion on Communism has become, for the lack of a better word, an insignificant subject for the present times. Or maybe there're still traces of its significance however it's ebbing away due to newer waves of societal conflicts.

Communism was another Utopian idea during the Victorian period and it has definitely tried to stand through generations of experimentation and adaptation. But then it has failed, near-ultimately. Same applies to other ideologies, most of which don't apply anymore to the present days.

And now, we're being introduced to another set of ideal-nations and all these will still be experimentations expecting better results. I say, a close to perfect leader is able to adapt his ideology to the call of the times and be flexible when society calls it necessary.

[giddyboy]

At some point @rodsky and @giddyboy are right however the discussion on Communism has become, for the lack of a better word, an insignificant subject for the present times. Or maybe there're still traces of its significance however it's ebbing away due to newer waves of societal conflicts.

Communism was another Utopian idea during the Victorian period and it has definitely tried to stand through generations of experimentation and adaptation. But then it has failed, near-ultimately. Same applies to other ideologies, most of which don't apply anymore to the present days.

And now, we're being introduced to another set of ideal-nations and all these will still be experimentations expecting better results. I say, a close to perfect leader is able to adapt his ideology to the call of the times and be flexible when society calls it necessary.

that's exactly what i mean. Evolution. Experimentation. Adaptation. Although my arguments were long and somewhat boring, your version is very short but direct to the point. good!

[rodsky]

Evolution. Experimentation. Adaptation.

Dialectical materialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

-RODION

[Talyo]

Communism was another Utopian idea during the Victorian period and it has definitely tried to stand through generations of experimentation and adaptation. But then it has failed, near-ultimately. Same applies to other ideologies, most of which don't apply anymore to the present days.

World comunist revolution failed in the Paris Commune in 1871. It failed again in the international revolutionary wave in 1917-23. But because it failed does it mean a utopia?

Capitalism which is the main enemy of communism survive. Does this mean that capitalism is the only and the last social that humanity will endure? Does this mean that poverty, misery, wars, environemntal destruction, barbarism, etc will continue and humanity cannot rid of them because they are "natural"?

Concluding that communism is a utopia because it simple failed in the past grossly neglected the scientific analysis of things especially the evolution of human society. Worst of all, it just simply saying "that capitalism is eternal and we cannot do about it no matter how evil it is. Let us wait for a perfect leader to come because he/she is only our last hope."

We should understand first what communism really is. Communism is not what happen in China, Vietnam, USSR, etc. They were and not communism but state capitalism.

[maynardmurlon]

World comunist revolution failed in the Paris Commune in 1871. It failed again in the international revolutionary wave in 1917-23. But because it failed does it mean a utopia?

Capitalism which is the main enemy of communism survive. Does this mean that capitalism is the only and the last social that humanity will endure? Does this mean that poverty, misery, wars, environemntal destruction, barbarism, etc will continue and humanity cannot rid of them because they are "natural"?

Concluding that communism is a utopia because it simple failed in the past grossly neglected the scientific analysis of things especially the evolution of human society. Worst of all, it just simply saying "that capitalism is eternal and we cannot do about it no matter how evil it is. Let us wait for a perfect leader to come because he/she is only our last hope."

We should understand first what communism really is. Communism is not what happen in China, Vietnam, USSR, etc. They were and not communism but state capitalism.

That's a myopic way of understanding it. You better distance the idea of 'communism vs. capitalism' and try to reconsider that the conflict in societies is much more complex than that and there're a lot of ideologies involved.

[Talyo]

i agree that the dynamic of society is very complex that may people got confused to understand it. it is also true that there are so many ideologies trying to explain it. but as long as we could not understand thant the history of all existing societies except the primitive communal is the history of class struggle and the continuing contradiction between the relations and forces of production, we cannot comprehend this very complex thing - society. but as marx said, philosophers only interpreted the world, the point is to change it.