The Roman Catholic Church~ Questions

[Jhared]

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motabang ko bro oi hehehe pero kana ra sad sa tan.aw nako nga nagkinahanglan jud og tabang pero kanang sa mga pari nga hingayo kaayo og donation PIKAT! hehehehe

sama rana'g magpa check-up ka'g doctor nya dili nimo bayran ang doctor..

[noy]

if you say it like that then you'd have to look for another adjective..
because unconditional love is loving someone despite the fact that they are not coming back to you., that they might not love you back.. it's respecting their decision for living their own capabilities despite showing defiance, because you made them that way, unconditional means not instilling contrite to the people being loved when they do not reciprocate it... sa binisaya pa, ang unconditional love is the kind of love nga dili mamoyboy, its not asking something in return..
now there are men capable of doing that even to the point of needless tolerance, now if your god cannot give that kind of love, then his love is not unconditional..
so whatever may be said about his love being unconditional., it cannot be denied that there is somehow a catch to that, and that my friend disproves its unconditionality..

unsa man diay gibuhat sa Ginoo bai diba nagpalansang siya para sa kapasayloan sa tanang mga sala..sala jew, muslim, christian, hindu, buddhist ug uban pa..apil hasta sa mga atheist. meaning iya gipalit daan ang kaluwasan regardless if dawaton or dili sa tao..
karun kung di ta maluwas, aw wa man pud nato gikab-ot ang kaluwasan...
mao ingun ko ang condition naa sa atong side of equation..diha na sa pag claim nato..

murag ingun ani gud, amahan ka, tulo imung anak..ang usa perti ka badlungon ug wa namu nag tagad taud2x na kay ninglayas siya sa inyo..pero pag pasko gitagsahan nimu sila ug regalo regardless kung badlungon or dili..which means, unconditional ang imung paghatag sa regalo..
pero depende na sa imung anak kung kuhaon ba nila ang regalo..karun just in case mu decide imung badlungon nga anak nga muclaim sa iyang regalo from you..
he has to do sevral things para makuha niya, diha ang condition mu apply..iyang side sa equation..
first, mouli jud siya sa inyo to get the gift..he has to deal with other things pud..

ang imung gusto bai gud kay prehas sa imung giingun ..mag pa check up ka ug doctor unya di mubayad..hehehehe

another example..
muingon ang doctor, libre check up ni bisan kinsa, pobre, datu..pinoy o dili, gwapo or batig nawng..meaning unconditional..
so unsa may imung buhaton para maka avail ka ana nga offer?
daghan, some of them kay you have to pick yourself up and go see the doctor, if follow up check ups are required..you have to heed the doctor's advice para ka maayo...
etc..the condition lies within our side of the equation.

laktud pagkasulti, for me God's love is unconditional..but salvation is conditional..

[nikknikk]

sama rana'g magpa check-up ka'g doctor nya dili nimo bayran ang doctor..

basin pareha ra...ang doctor mangayo og bayad, ang pari mangayo og donation

naa maý medical mission... libre hehehehe bitaw para nako ang taw pwedi ra makatabang sa isig ka taw nga dili ipaagi sa paghatag og kwarta kay basin og ipang casino lang unya or ipang sugal...

[Jhared]

basin pareha ra...ang doctor mangayo og bayad, ang pari mangayo og donation

naa maý medical mission... libre hehehehe bitaw para nako ang taw pwedi ra makatabang sa isig ka taw nga dili ipaagi sa paghatag og kwarta kay basin og ipang casino lang unya or ipang sugal...

exactly, donation rnang ilang gipangayo,. yet ikaw bisan piso dili ka mkakuot? diba you people always believe that spiritual salvation is greater than physical? so kong imong kwentahon, kanang benepisyo nga makuha nimo sa doktor nga imong gibayran ug 250 wala rna sa benepisyo nga makuha nimo sa pari nga donasyon ray gipangayo, nga bisan piso wala kay gitampo..

dalo man ka..

kong gamiton man gani na sa pari imong Piso, wala nkay labot ana kay siyay manubag ana sa taas,.. ang importante diha nga nakatampo ka sa pagpalambo sa simbahan sa imong ginoo.. at least mao nay imong intensyon..

[Jhared]

unsa man diay gibuhat sa Ginoo bai diba nagpalansang siya para sa kapasayloan sa tanang mga sala..sala jew, muslim, christian, hindu, buddhist ug uban pa..apil hasta sa mga atheist. meaning iya gipalit daan ang kaluwasan regardless if dawaton or dili sa tao..
karun kung di ta maluwas, aw wa man pud nato gikab-ot ang kaluwasan...
mao ingun ko ang condition naa sa atong side of equation..diha na sa pag claim nato..

murag ingun ani gud, amahan ka, tulo imung anak..ang usa perti ka badlungon ug wa namu nag tagad taud2x na kay ninglayas siya sa inyo..pero pag pasko gitagsahan nimu sila ug regalo regardless kung badlungon or dili..which means, unconditional ang imung paghatag sa regalo..
pero depende na sa imung anak kung kuhaon ba nila ang regalo..karun just in case mu decide imung badlungon nga anak nga muclaim sa iyang regalo from you..
he has to do sevral things para makuha niya, diha ang condition mu apply..iyang side sa equation..
first, mouli jud siya sa inyo to get the gift..he has to deal with other things pud..

ang imung gusto bai gud kay prehas sa imung giingun ..mag pa check up ka ug doctor unya di mubayad..hehehehe

another example..
muingon ang doctor, libre check up ni bisan kinsa, pobre, datu..pinoy o dili, gwapo or batig nawng..meaning unconditional..
so unsa may imung buhaton para maka avail ka ana nga offer?
daghan, some of them kay you have to pick yourself up and go see the doctor, if follow up check ups are required..you have to heed the doctor's advice para ka maayo...
etc..the condition lies within our side of the equation.

laktud pagkasulti, for me God's love is unconditional..but salvation is conditional..

You're speaking about Reciprocation... not love without conditions..

lol.. your metaphors does not really relate to your dogma, because god's love ends to those mga badlungon when they physically die, its not really gifts that they'll receive but eternal damnation to the fires of hell.. lol

as was always the point that i was trying to raise here, that when talking about an unconditional love it should not matter whether or not that love will be reciprocated.. parihas anang iro ba, nga bisan sikaran2 na nimo higugmaon gihapon ka sa iro.. that's what i meant by love being unconditional..

so again is the love of god without conditions? no i dont think so..

[nikknikk]

exactly, donation rnang ilang gipangayo,. yet ikaw bisan piso dili ka mkakuot? diba you people always believe that spiritual salvation is greater than physical? so kong imong kwentahon, kanang benepisyo nga makuha nimo sa doktor nga imong gibayran ug 250 wala rna sa benepisyo nga makuha nimo sa pari nga donasyon ray gipangayo, nga bisan piso wala kay gitampo..

dalo man ka..

kong gamiton man gani na sa pari imong Piso, wala nkay labot ana kay siyay manubag ana sa taas,.. ang importante diha nga nakatampo ka sa pagpalambo sa simbahan sa imong ginoo.. at least mao nay imong intensyon..

hahaha mura sad kintahay kag correct!

imong pasabot kung dili mo donate walay madawat nga benepisyo?

maka ampo ba ta maski dili maka donate?

dung-gon ba ang mga pag ampo nga maski wala maka donate?

siguro dalo lang ko sa mga wala na magkinahanglan, kay sa akong tan.aw sobra sobra na ang donation ang ilang nadawat pero ikaw dili ka dalo pero wa nimo gamita imong UTOK kay sa imong pagsige og hatag mao nay nagtukmod nga manugal ang pari:-p...

imong style pasikat...

[Jhared]

hahaha mura sad kintahay kag correct!

imong pasabot kung dili mo donate walay madawat nga benepisyo?

maka ampo ba ta maski dili maka donate?

dung-gon ba ang mga pag ampo nga maski wala maka donate?

siguro dalo lang ko sa mga wala na magkinahanglan, kay sa akong tan.aw sobra sobra na ang donation ang ilang nadawat pero ikaw dili ka dalo pero wa nimo gamita imong UTOK kay sa imong pagsige og hatag mao nay nagtukmod nga manugal ang pari:-p...

imong style pasikat...

lol, im just saying.. it only shows how ugly of a person you are..

If you think you should not offer them bisan piso then that's up to you., tithing is not limited to giving money to the church but can be done also through helping others etc..

[noy]

You're speaking about Reciprocation... not love without conditions..

lol.. your metaphors does not really relate to your dogma, because god's love ends to those mga badlungon when they physically die, its not really gifts that they'll receive but eternal damnation to the fires of hell.. lol
as was always the point that i was trying to raise here, that when talking about an unconditional love it should not matter whether or not that love will be reciprocated.. parihas anang iro ba, nga bisan sikaran2 na nimo higugmaon gihapon ka sa iro.. that's what i meant by love being unconditional..

so again is the love of god without conditions? no i dont think so..

nah murag wa nimu ma gets bai..God's love is NOT conditional but Salvation is..
kay kung conditional pa ang gugma sa Diyos, ingun unta to siya nga ang iyang pagpalansang kay para ra ni sa mga mutuo niya...

kay abi naay dogma nga dili tanan maluwas ug kadtong mureject sa Ginoo kay di maluwas..di na dayun unconditional? ang imung gusto bai kay maski pag imung i reject ang Ginoo malangit gihapun ka.. basin nalimut ka that while God loves all sinners, God is also just..

butang ta lang ug naa kay anak, nangrape unya gipatay pa jud. ikaw mismo nakadungog nga ning confess imung anak..nya ibutang ta lang ug ang sintensya kay bitay..unsay imung buhaton? given that you love your son unconditionally and at the same you are also a righteous and just person.
imung paikyason? love jud nimu imung anak pero righteous ug just pa kaha ka ana?
imung ipapriso? given the attributes above, murag mao ni imung buhaton.. magsakit imung dughan?of course! basin gani mamatay pa ka sa kasakit...Love gud kaayo nimu imung anak..kung pwede pa lang ikaw ang magpabitay diba?.. karun, kay imu mang gisurrender imung anak sa authorities does that diminish the fact that you loved your son unconditionally? i don't think so..

God loves you no matter who you are and what you've done and He offers His forgiveness and Salvation so you can be with Him eternally but if you don't want to be with God, He will not force you..sa sama nga paagi, imung gihigugma imung anak, pirmi nimu sultihan sa mga maayong buhat..etc, pero kung pilion jud niyang mag bagdoy2x..dili ka ka pugos niya nga mosunod sa imu..and he will suffer the loss of his poor choices eventually..
so tell me, when God lets you reap what you sow, does that diminish His Love for you?

sige bai, mangutana ko regarding sa kadtong doctor nga nag offer ug free check up for all kinds of people. datu,pobre,gwapo, maot, pinoy, foreigner,bata, tiguwang..etc ma consider ba nato nga unconditional ang free check up niya nga offer?

[Jhared]

nah murag wa nimu ma gets bai..God's love is NOT conditional but Salvation is..
kay kung conditional pa ang gugma sa Diyos, ingun unta to siya nga ang iyang pagpalansang kay para ra ni sa mga mutuo niya...

kay abi naay dogma nga dili tanan maluwas ug kadtong mureject sa Ginoo kay di maluwas..di na dayun unconditional? ang imung gusto bai kay maski pag imung i reject ang Ginoo malangit gihapun ka.. basin nalimut ka that while God loves all sinners, God is also just..

butang ta lang ug naa kay anak, nangrape unya gipatay pa jud. ikaw mismo nakadungog nga ning confess imung anak..nya ibutang ta lang ug ang sintensya kay bitay..unsay imung buhaton? given that you love your son unconditionally and at the same you are also a righteous and just person.
imung paikyason? love jud nimu imung anak pero righteous ug just pa kaha ka ana?
imung ipapriso? given the attributes above, murag mao ni imung buhaton.. magsakit imung dughan?of course! basin gani mamatay pa ka sa kasakit...Love gud kaayo nimu imung anak..kung pwede pa lang ikaw ang magpabitay diba?.. karun, kay imu mang gisurrender imung anak sa authorities does that diminish the fact that you loved your son unconditionally? i don't think so..

God loves you no matter who you are and what you've done and He offers His forgiveness and Salvation so you can be with Him eternally but if you don't want to be with God, He will not force you..sa sama nga paagi, imung gihigugma imung anak, pirmi nimu sultihan sa mga maayong buhat..etc, pero kung pilion jud niyang mag bagdoy2x..dili ka ka pugos niya nga mosunod sa imu..and he will suffer the loss of his poor choices eventually..
so tell me, when God lets you reap what you sow, does that diminish His Love for you?

No, it's you who didn't get my point, or trying to avoid talking about it...gods love, like what you said, is unconditional in terms of race, disability, social standing, and whatnot., YES of course!!, that's elementary.. but does it not seek reciprocation? does it not command obedience? that's pretty much elementary too dont you think?.. therefore that kind of love, in my own understanding is not ultimately without conditions..

the message here is like saying "I love you, but love me also and honor my name, else you'll burn in hell forever"... god killing thousands of people, god commanding his puppet to massacre the sinners, god killing children to please a bald insecure prophet, god wiping 99.99 percent of humanity... sure, they reap what they sow, you know for being imperfect and all, as created.. that's obnoxious, that's inhuman, that's immoral., if you think that's unconditional love then im having doubts if you really understood what loving is really all about..

about your example, anang bitay2, i think it does not diminish it, it's love that just simply gave up, not clinging to any kind of hope anymore., and i think that's a cowardly thing to do.. i don't mean to condescend here, but loving, i mean true loving, should never give up hope, even to the point that you think it's mindless tolerance, like Soc with Jovan, even to the point that it negates the boundary of righteousness.. i think that love is diminished if you permit your loved ones to die even when you had the chance to prevent it and change them., ok ra'g mangawat or other petty crimes kay i surrender jud dapat sa police,. but letting them die is just too much..

sige bai, mangutana ko regarding sa kadtong doctor nga nag offer ug free check up for all kinds of people. datu,pobre,gwapo, maot, pinoy, foreigner,bata, tiguwang..etc ma consider ba nato nga unconditional ang free check up niya nga offer?

they could just be pursuing tax incentives, or doing it for the sake of their obligatory pro bono duties, or new doctors testing/improving their skills, part of a government/foundation program, or doctors endorsing products, etc.. if that would be the case, then no i think not.. as is the case when curing patients...

but good doctors who without asking/expecting for any kind of monetary considerations whatsoever takes the plight of conducting medical services indiscriminately, only does it as far as his financial needs permits him.. otherwise he'd go back to payed services, or enlist foundations and ask for funding... that we can consider as still nothing but conditional., but in a good way kind of conditional..

[noy]

No, it's you who didn't get my point, or trying to avoid talking about it...gods love, like what you said, is unconditional in terms of race, disability, social standing, and whatnot., YES of course!!, that's elementary.. but does it not seek reciprocation? does it not command obedience? that's pretty much elementary too dont you think?.. therefore that kind of love, in my own understanding is not ultimately without conditions..

oh i beg to disagree bai, i think i got what you mean..by unconditional, you mean maski pa ug di ka mutuo sa Ginoo malangit gihapun ka..diba mao ni imung pasabut? and because there are teachings that says do this and do that otherwise you might not be saved..mao ka ingun ka nga conditional ang Love sa Ginoo and seeking to be reciprocated that is.. i think you're confused between Love and Salvation bai..
sama sa akong giingun, God's love is unconditional but Salvation is.

anyway, at least we are now able to establish that God's love is unconditional..hehehe unconditional in the sense that it does not choose race, disability, social standing and everything else..

kanang imung giingun nga obedience ug uban pa..that's for Salvation..that's where the conditions come in...mao ra nay punto nako bai..

wa may mausab sa Ginoo kung di ta musimba or mutuo niya, Ginoo man gihapun na..so God does not need His love to be reciprocated..when God says, do this or do that..it's for you and everyone else's salvation bai. because without God, there's only damnation..

the message here is like saying "I love you, but love me also and honor my name, else you'll burn in hell forever"...

nope, i'm afraid you got it all twisted bai, it should be like this, "I love you, that's why i paved the way for your salvation, i will reveal to you the ways for you to have that salvation, most of all i love you enough to let you decide on your own will even if your decision might break my heart..so i am giving you the will to choose between Life and Death"..karun kung di nimu pilion ang Ginoo? gi unsa gud intawn pagka wa niya naghigugma sa imu nga ikaw man muy wala nahigugma niya? this too is pretty elementary.. LOL

god killing thousands of people, god commanding his puppet to massacre the sinners, god killing children to please a bald insecure prophet, god wiping 99.99 percent of humanity... sure, they reap what they sow, you know for being imperfect and all, as created.. that's obnoxious, that's inhuman, that's immoral., if you think that's unconditional love then im having doubts if you really understood what loving is really all about..

i'm sure you know what "indulgence" is. Perhaps it's the only way that they may know salvation despite of their disobedience..and the children as tragically one of the earliest martyrs..

you familiar with the biblical story about Jesus preaching to the imprisoned spirits just before He resurrected?
those spirits were the ones who disobeyed God, whose earthly lives perished in the flood..just like the people in sodom and gomorrah, in canaan and others because of their disobedience and Sin.

were they condemned eternally? No..otherwise Jesus wouldn't have come to them proclaiming about Salvation..loosing one's earthly life is far more better than to loose one's eternal soul in eternal damnation.. sometimes, death can be the only indulgence, in the same manner that Christ has to die in our bahalf so that we may know salvation..

by the way, kinsa nga bald insecure prophet imung pasabut bai? LOL

about your example, anang bitay2, i think it does not diminish it, it's love that just simply gave up, not clinging to any kind of hope anymore., and i think that's a cowardly thing to do.. i don't mean to condescend here, but loving, i mean true loving, should never give up hope, even to the point that you think it's mindless tolerance, like Soc with Jovan, even to the point that it negates the boundary of righteousness.. i think that love is diminished if you permit your loved ones to die even when you had the chance to prevent it and change them., ok ra'g mangawat or other petty crimes kay i surrender jud dapat sa police,. but letting them die is just too much..

Love that simply gave up? what better fight could there be? nakasala imung anak, dunay balaod against it and corresponding punishment for such a crime..unsa pa man diayng klase nga fight imung gipangita?
so you'd rather let your son escape? knowing that he committed a crime? so unsaon naman lang tong gi rape ug gipatay niya? unsaon naman lang ang pamilya ato who seeks justice?
so kay love nimu imung anak, you'd let justice slip away? is this your idea of unconditional Love? doing away righteousness, justice and fairness for the sake of saving yourself from misery for doing the right thing? with all due respect i call that selfishness.

point is, we're able to establish that handing your son to the authorities does not diminish your Love for him. that my friend can be related to why God's love for you does not diminish even if it reaches to a point that you'll have to suffer the loss of your disbelief. God will let you go by the time that He should even if it breaks His heart but only because you wanted Him to..bottom line, imu nang decision..

they could just be pursuing tax incentives, or doing it for the sake of their obligatory pro bono duties, or new doctors testing/improving their skills, part of a government/foundation program, or doctors endorsing products, etc.. if that would be the case, then no i think not.. as is the case when curing patients...

but good doctors who without asking/expecting for any kind of monetary considerations whatsoever takes the plight of conducting medical services indiscriminately, only does it as far as his financial needs permits him.. otherwise he'd go back to payed services, or enlist foundations and ask for funding... that we can consider as still nothing but conditional., but in a good way kind of conditional.

the intention and the length of time the offer would last are beside the point bai, i know what you mean by resources..kay ang free check up mag depend sa resources sa doctor..as well as intentions pud kay basin they're doing it out of obligation blah blah blah..i need you to set aside those things usa...

ang point diri is a certain doctor is offering a FREE CHECK UP regardless of who and what kind of patient there is..kana ra..the thought of this example lies on the part nga walay gipili ang doctor kung kinsay magpacheck up..
so is the doctor's offer unconditional?