MERGED: CPP-NPA-NDF Discussions (Issues, Updates, etc.)

[cutie_jenny]

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i don't know much about communism... but this is what i heard... my sis says some of these propagandist have armed group to protect themselves from harrasment-like the apparent assassination of mediamen nowadays-fighting for a cause mostly against corruption and the likes...

when my sis was under threat because of exposing issues that are meant to be kept... she felt secured even just a bit, knowing she has friends from these activists...

these people do not take consideration of whoever you are specially when your against their will... like what happen to RUBEN ECLEO'S CASE... lost one good lawyer. damn good one... and many will follow...

and this is just one of the many reasons why propagandist are armed....

though... it has its own bad sides... it will always have...

bin laden... i've heard his message... he wants america to bleed just as the russians did in overtaking afghanistan...bleed until russia went bankrupt... and this is what he wants with america... yeah..probably thinking this is the only way for america to stop its invasion of countries.. not just iraq, others as well through economic manipulation...

as for the NPA... they have the cause...

only there's gap in communication.. gov't does not really provide the right info bout these people and the media the same... what's money for, pay media this and that... what else can money do... and only few are not bought. like what happen to HACIENDA LUISITA... any fair treatment? none...kept the workers side at bay... due to technical problems... yeah right... with a congressman(aquino) on the other side...

whatever!

[cutie_jenny]

oi... di lang daghan sulti... and not just the academe.

explore the world of the unknown and have better understanding of things... not just based on what is provided, but by all means necessary...our world is not safe to live nowadays, we all know that.

learning to listen at least, pause for while.... for us to hear each other.

[arnoldsa]

as far as respect for ther person *behind* the opinion is concerned, no problem. however, the need arises to correct certain points.

arnoldsa, i concur that you have not exactly understood the marxist perspective of things, as your approach practically bespeaks of spencer's social darwinism, characteristic of 'survival for the fittest' individualism, and downgrading societal effects on individuals, thinking the individual as the prime mover for change - the characteristic capitalist.

before you heap accusations in the Left, think of what side of the political spectrum contributed the most in oustering Marcos and Erap, who started the campaign, and who merely went in along the bandwagon.

explore marxist dialectics so that you can better understand what you are talking about, and delve deeper on the difference as to function, ideology and manner of organization between the above-ground and the underground movements in the country... not just the crap you hear about everyday.

also, learn about social classes and their attributes. it seems that your sociology prof forgot about them.

I had my professors from UP and they were obviously biased in favor of the left... I also had a professor from UA & P and he was obviously biased for the rightist. I also had a professor from CebuDoc who was, in a way, sort of balanced -- pointing out the advantages and disadvantages of the agenda of both the left and right...

But I still don't agree with the agenda of the left. And I found it very ironic enough... You get prosecuted for practicing your religion, you get prosecuted for forming a party other than the Communist Party, you get prosecuted for a having a very liberal and critical press that speaks out against the Communist Party, you get prosecuted for speaking out differently, and a whole lot more... Furthermore, a so-called "people's court" -- even though if it is not a real people's court -- tries you on a railroaded case where the decision has already been handed even before who can defend yourself helplessly... And you don't just get prosecuted, you get killed by a firing squad...

I know of many, including my helper's brother and some near my former area which was once NPA territory, who got killed just because they spoke out and had different ideas. Are these the kind of people you want to linger with

I can't afford to live this kind of life...

Oh by the way, who were Erap's supporters during the 1998 elections? Of course none other than the left including Satur Ocampo himself and that SVD priest turned revolutionary...

[kauban ta bay]

@arnoldsa:

i dont see the relevance why you will be prosecuted because of your religious affiliation, and the people's court that you are talking about is not a kangaroo court, coz it seems that you are trying to describe it that way.. gareb's right that you need to learn and study the perspectives of Marxism and the attributes of the social classes of the society so won't be speculative about it.

leftists can be determined by different faces there are "leftists" that are being used by the government, but i could not agree with the statement you made pertaining to NPA's- coz it could be a black propaganda made by the reactionary government that we are having right now.

[gareb]

You get prosecuted for practicing your religion, you get prosecuted for forming a party other than the Communist Party, you get prosecuted for a having a very liberal and critical press that speaks out against the Communist Party, you get prosecuted for speaking out differently, and a whole lot more... Furthermore, a so-called "people's court" -- even though if it is not a real people's court -- tries you on a railroaded case where the decision has already been handed even before who can defend yourself helplessly... And you don't just get prosecuted, you get killed by a firing squad...

now i see it.

your idea of 'communism' is what was exhibited in russia and china. of course, since they are supposedly the models for socialism. but there were flaws. and major ones, especially during the revisionist years. no need to make an apology in behalf of the errors. it has been acknowledged time and time again.

scientific socialism views religion as a social construct. religion serves a function within the society, allaying latent fears, especially to the superstitious. practice of religion is not encouraged, but cannot be deemed illegal. the process of acculturation is not an overnight phenomena. one cannot destroy a house and replace it with something with the same function but of a stronger material within a mere snap of the fingers.

the freedom of the press is always guaranteed. but this could get a little bit tricky. i think u know very well how public opinion can be swayed by the press. evidence to that is American media with its allussions of the US's wars abroad, and other like propaganda in other countries. the media should remain independent but not neutral. independent in a sense so that no outside pressure can manhandle the media and taint public opinion. not neutral, in a sense because media has to take a stand on issues, aside from reporting it to the public.

the issue of the 'people's court' is something sort of a judicial matter in a sense, because the NDF has been acknowledged by the GRP panel to be an independent governing body (norway accords in the peace process), which places the country with two ruling governments. of course, each claiming to be governments, each has its own set of institutions. how justice is delivered in these 'people's court' i do not know, but before we hrow mud, we must realize how unreliable our courts are. GRP panel has its electric chair once, then the lethal injection. the other side too has it's own version.

there are so many versions of the story on what the 'leftist agenda' is all about... many of course are twisted, disparaged, versions that does not resemble what it really is. the 'leftist agenda' primarily is not about armed revolution. it is about social equality and sustainable growth. conflicts arise when social classes with contradicting interests collide.

by the way, the legal left did not root for either JDV or ERAP in 1998. they were aware of how hopeless elections were in the country, which is a farce between antagonistic factions of the ruling class. but since to support or not to support, a faction will ultimately win, the legal left nominally rooted for ROCO, the presidentaible who was most open for peace talks at that time (and even during the 2004 elections).

i urge you to read on Marx's theory on social classes, as well as Durkheim, Weber, et al. i do wish you had taken it up in depth during ur Sociology classes.

[cutie_jenny]

your idea of 'communism' is what was exhibited in russia and china. of course, since they are supposedly the models for socialism. but there were flaws. and major ones, especially during the revisionist years. no need to make an apology in behalf of the errors. it has been acknowledged time and time again.


there are so many versions of the story on what the 'leftist agenda' is all about... many of course are twisted, disparaged, versions that does not resemble what it really is. the 'leftist agenda' primarily is not about armed revolution. it is about social equality and sustainable growth. conflicts arise when social classes with contradicting interests collide.

i urge you to read on Marx's theory on social classes, as well as Durkheim, Weber, et al. i do wish you had taken it up in depth during ur Sociology classes.

well said...couldn't explain it any better..

socialism was never intended to be like that of china(communism) nor russia...socialism was meant for the social equality, most especially on the equal distribution of wealth.

china's case is obviously not...as it's form only rooted out of socialism so with russia's...

many ideas rooted out of it meant for a cause.... but sadly it usually turns out so bloodily... of course, whyever not... its the only way any man could think of to protect himself if the authorities could not...

with all these thoughts/ideas... these were all meant for good... harm exists when there is an abuse of authority or power... like what happened during Marcos' Martial Law... certainly there was an abuse of power specially of those in position-the generals and other officers, though not all but were outnumbered.

arnoldsa wrote:
You get prosecuted for practicing your religion, you get prosecuted for forming a party other than the Communist Party, you get prosecuted for a having a very liberal and critical press that speaks out against the Communist Party, you get prosecuted for speaking out differently, and a whole lot more... Furthermore, a so-called "people's court" -- even though if it is not a real people's court -- tries you on a railroaded case where the decision has already been handed even before who can defend yourself helplessly... And you don't just get prosecuted, you get killed by a firing squad...

these cases occur and will reoccur... and it will repeats itself, a never ending cycle... of people expressng themselves-their thoughts, ideas, emotions, et al... for others to know, hopefully will consider and will not prejudge until proven beyond all reasonable doubts....which is unfortunate... because po... in reality, this rarely happens. the very reason why many ask for justice of those victims of all sort yet they haven't gotten it...

chong's case is an exception... and the very reason why she's been active in this group of activists against crime(though, i'm not really sure which of the many groups :8O: )

and all these propaganda came out of the need to serve the public better...but there are abuses...many abuses rooted from self-interests, power, greed and et al.... even corruption to mention... had they only know to value the true meaning of public service... but of course, we have our own priorities to tackle... self enrichment-mansions, bmw's, paris, cartier, carribean... oh yeah! las vegas....what else :8O: :

oh! bout sociology, it was everly overboringly....sleepy eh... got knocked out of the class... :8O:

[arnoldsa]

You're right... But the problem is that man is inherently weak. The systems he creates are always riddled with flaws no matter what. Therefore "true communism" will always remain only a theory... It will never be achieved.

[cyclops]

Rebels and Government work side by side. They control the peoples fears in order to vote for them. Most of the past president are supported by the leftist group of course, they want thier share of pie. Communist movements are more of propaganda - it's like selling FEAR to the country... US have thier own counterparts...( aL qaida, and etc.) which as of now they havent caught bin laden yet... ( send a pinoy fortune teller to afganistan, for sure he can locate him in 24 hours )...

[arnoldsa]

You're right Cyclops.. Just like Erap... he was supported by the leftist.. And during the last elections, these groups went for FPJ... there was even this article in Jose Sison's website calling for support for FPJ... these guys never learn..

[zer0_cooL]

as to what i have heard from our instructor in soc sci the government is controlled by the military... and guess what? he supported the so called leftist.. he even explained to us why they are called leftist... you see there's this quadrant and communism belongs to the left and leftist are communists so that's why they are called leftist... i dont get it...