The Lies and Prejudices of ANTI-Catholics

[weedmeister2]

hala! murag katuhuan kaayo (dili si bert ha)!Â* to see is to believe.
but I know how to get around with it.
"blessed are those who have seen but did not believe".Â* Â*

wahahahaha, close your eyes na lang bai... no peeping... heheheheh

[mannyamador]

hehehe, the fact that you base ALL your claims and info on Catholic sources makes it all MOOT and ACADEMIC.

Wrong again. That involves a logical fallacy. You have to refute the sources. You have failed to do so.[br]Date Posted: June 03, 2006, 06:09:00 PM_________________________________________________

hehehe, here's manny's philosophy:

This is another logical fallacy: putting words into another person's mouth. But worse, this is just plain falsehood. Most of my books were written AFTER Vatican II. And most of them don't have the Imprimatur or Nihil Obstat.

Yiou really shouild know better than to make such stupid statements. It makes you look more like a prejudiced bigit.

[mannyamador]

hmmmm, pwede debate through pictures na lang bai??

Bwahahahahah!!!! Hey, even Bert was a Nazi!!! Look at the picture!!!!


"Sesame Street had roots in
the Nazi movement!"

Hehhee... hey, as you can see. even I can put captions on an innocent piucture and make it look pretty bad. Get a priest standing near a pretty woman and claim that it's his msitress and what have you gotz? Ooohhh... "proof" of his breaking his vow of celibacy!!! Oh my!!! And get a shot of priests being FORCED to show the Nazi salute and all of a sudden you have "proof" of Nazi priests! Ooohhhh....

Give me a break!!!

Uh, in case you forgot, there were just as many (if not more) protestants who joined or cooperated with the Nazis. That was the reality in Nazi Germany.

But the bigger reality was that the Pope, directly and through his directives, saved 800,000 Jews. Now how many did your false church save? None? Two, three? A dozen? Yeah right!!! The Protestants in general turned a blind eye to the plight of the Jews.

Here's an excerpt from n interesting review by Tom Aitken of the book The Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity, 1919-1945 (Cambridge University Press) by Richard Steigmann-Gall. (http://www.christiancentury.org/dept..._07_print.html)

"Catholicism, however, never appealed to the Nazis. (Hitler said on a number of occasions that he was nearer in
spirit to Protestantism.) Principally this was because Catholicism was internationalist in outlook, while German Protestants
were for the most part fiercely nationalist. But the Nazis's detestation of Rome derived also from their skewed notions about
the papacy. The Vatican was, of course, a foreign power, which disqualified it from having any right of influence in insurgent
Germany. It was also regarded as the culpable party in a centuries-old perversion of Christianity: materialist, luxurious and,
above all, Jewish. (Hitler asserted a belief that all the most notorious Renaissance popes were Jews, the front men for the
great Jewish conspiracy to achieve world domination.)"

No wonder protestants were so silent about Hitler and did so little -- at least in comparison the Catholic Church. Hitler liked the "born again types" better!

[mannyamador]

The Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity, 1919-1945
Cambridge University Press, 312 pp., $30.00; paperback, $19.99
by Richard Steigmann-Gall
August 10, 2004
http://www.christiancentury.org/dept..._07_print.html

Most of the Nazi leaders considered themselves not merely Christians but instruments of God's will, proclaims Richard Steigmann-Gall, a
young Canadian historian. Many people think that if the Nazis had any religion it was derived from Wagner's operas and Teutonic mythology.
Not so: the paganists were a minority, much derided by Hitler and Goebbels, who remained nominal Catholics and paid church taxes to the end.

The impression that Nazis despised Christianity derives from two factors: our revulsion at what the Nazis did, and statements near the
end of the war by Nazi leaders, including Hitler, which seem to indicate bitter antipathy toward the church. These statements,
however, reflect less an abandonment of what those Nazi leaders considered their own Christian values than disappointment with the
Protestants of Germany, whom they believed had badly let them down.

When the Nazis seized power in 1933, the Protestant churches had suffered a decade of steep numerical decline; in that year, however,
they began to gain members. For millions of German Protestants the Nazi regime signaled a revival of Christianity after the decadent,
morally uncertain years of the Weimar Republic. Many Protestants, including pastors, became keen Nazi party members and officials. When,
after 1937, relationships between the Protestant churches and the Nazi state deteriorated and churchmen were dismissed from official posts,
there was much disappointed protest.

Catholicism, however, never appealed to the Nazis. (Hitler said on a number of occasions that he was nearer in spirit to Protestantism.)
Principally this was because Catholicism was internationalist in outlook, while German Protestants were for the most part fiercely
nationalist. But the Nazis's detestation of Rome derived also from their skewed notions about the papacy. The Vatican was, of course, a
foreign power, which disqualified it from having any right of influence in insurgent Germany. It was also regarded as the culpable
party in a centuries-old perversion of Christianity: materialist, luxurious and, above all, Jewish. (Hitler asserted a belief that all
the most notorious Renaissance popes were Jews, the front men for the great Jewish conspiracy to achieve world domination.)

Nazi Protestant Christians had two great heroes and role models. The first was Jesus Christ, whom (following the English fascist Houston
Stewart Chamberlain) they believed to be the first and greatest Aryan and the first and greatest anti-Semite. Most of the Nazi leaders
worked the cleansing of the temple into their discourses at some point, and they were ingenious at giving some of the parables an
anti-Semitic slant. The other great hero was Martin Luther, whom they saw as the first and greatest German. In his translation of the Bible
he had virtually invented the German language, and with it the idea of the German nation. He had rebelled against the Jewish domination
exerted by Rome. He had made Germany the center of the Christian world.

Better still, in his later years Luther had written a virulently anti-Semitic tract, "On the Jews and Their Lies." Nazi leaders showed
a close acquaintance with at least this aspect of his teachings, praising and quoting the tract at every suitable opportunity. Nazi
Christian rallies and services often ended with the singing of "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God." Luther, they believed, had merely begun
the German Reformation, not completed it. That was up to the Nazis, and one thing many of them saw as essential was the removal of the
Jewish Old Testament from the Bible.

Nonetheless, after 1937 the Nazis became disenchanted with the Protestants. In their analysis, the Protestants were engaged in
internecine wrangling which made them less and less credible as an aid to German national unity. As war approached and then
broke out, unity became increasingly desirable. The Nazis might more accurately have perceived that it was their attempts to
manipulate Protestantism for their own ends that lay behind a large part of the disunity.

This is not the place to set down even in summary the twists and turns of what happened within German Protestantism during the
Nazi era: suffice to say that some Protestants, in some degree, began to realize what monstrosities they had given themselves to;
others, retaining some of the faith of 1933 and continuing to be vigorously anti-Semitic for religious as well as racist reasons, expected
that a new, Christian Germany would emerge if Hitler won the war. And, of course, there were personal and doctrinal clashes.

But though there was some persecution of Protestants after 1937, it was never as severe as the treatment meted out to Catholics,
and in parts of the Reich it was actually forbidden. The Nazi leaders themselves did not altogether give up on the church. In 1941, in
Wartheland, a number of so-called Protestant Churches of German Nationality were brought into being. They were to have no links with
any Christian organization outside the district, and were to be financed solely by contributions from members. These churches were
perhaps the Nazis' last attempt to create a society both Nazi and Christian.

What conclusions can we draw from this densely argued book? Many Christians probably believe in a "real Christianity" that exists
regardless of how believers behave and, indeed, is the benchmark by which their behavior is to be judged. But if we apply that
benchmark to Nazi Christians, we must conclude either that they were hypocritically quoting scripture to their own ends (a view
Steigmann-Gall considers untenable) or that they did not understand Christianity, since "real Christians" could not possibly commit
such crimes.

The Nazi Christians remind us that Christianity in all times and places has been at the mercy of the frailties and fears of its
adherents and of the law of unintended consequences. Steigmann-Gall quotes theologian Richard Rubenstein: "`The world of the
death camps and the society it engenders reveals the progressively intensifying night side of Judeo-Christian civilization. Civilization means
slavery, wars, exploitation and death camps. It also means medical hygiene, elevated religious ideas, beautiful art, and exquisite music.'"

Steigmann-Gall concludes that the story he has to tell is not "an admission that Nazism is somehow redeemable, but rather that it is
that much closer to us than we dare allow ourselves to believe. The discovery that so many Nazis considered themselves or their movement
to be Christian makes us similarly uncomfortable. But the very unpleasantness of this fact makes it all the more important to look it
squarely in the face."

_________________________________________________
Reviewed by Tom Aitken, a freelance writer, film critic and book reviewer living in Richmond, Surrey, England.

[mannyamador]

Emanuele Pacifici Recalls Church's Aid During Nazi Era
His Family Was Helped in Practicing Their Jewish Faith

ROME, JAN. 30, 2005 (Zenit.org).- The religious congregations and Catholic institutions that were committed to saving Jews from Nazi
persecution in Italy, tried to respect the Jews' faith, recalls Emanuele Pacifici.

Pacifici, who today is the Italian president of the association Friends of Yad Vashem, experienced the horror of the Holocaust as a child.

His father Riccardo, rabbi of Genoa, and his mother Wanda Abenaim died at Auschwitz. Last week marked the 60th anniversary of the death camp by Allied forces.

Emanuele and his brother Raffaele were saved by the nuns of the St. Martha Institute of Settignano, near Florence.

Emanuele has long known adversity. He once spent several years in a sanatorium recovering from tuberculosis. In October 1982 he was
wounded by a bomb that exploded in front of the synagogue of Rome.

As a child, some of his happiest memories centered around three Catholics: Sister Cornelia Cordini, Sister Esther Busnelli and Father
Gaetano Tantalo. All of them have been honored by Israel as "Righteous Among the Nations."

In an interview with ZENIT, Pacifici recounted that "in 1943, when I was 12 years old, my father was captured by the Nazis. Then, together
with my mother and brother Raffaele, who was 6, we sought refuge in Florence. We were helped by the cardinal of Florence, Elia dalla
Costa, who gave us a list of convents where we could hide.

"The search was not easy, because all the convents we got in touch with were full. After much searching, and when we were already
desperate, Sister Esther Busnelli received us, opening the gate of the convent of the Missionary Franciscans of Carmel Square in Florence.
However, the convent could only accommodate women. So my brother and I were taken to St. Martha's convent in Settignano."

"A few days later," Emanuele Pacifici recalled, "the Nazis invaded Sister Esther's convent and took my mother away, together with 80
other Jewish women. Deported to Auschwitz, none of them returned."

"As little straws in a storm, and already orphans without knowing it, we found hospitality, understanding and affection in St. Martha's
convent," he added.

"I remember that, every evening, before going to bed, it was the custom that every [Catholic] child kiss the crucifix that the nuns
wore on their chest," Pacifici said. "But when it was my turn, Sister Cornelia, taking care so that no one would notice, would put her
fingers on the crucifix, so that I should kiss her fingers and not the crucifix."

Pacific explained that with this gesture the nun wished to respect the child's religious identity, without the others realizing it.

"Then she would whisper in my ear: 'Now go to bed and, when you are under the covers, don't forget to say your prayers!' And this happened
every day, for almost a year. For this I am very grateful to Sister Cornelia, whom I have always called 'Mother Cornelia,'" said Pacifici.

He continued: "In 1939, during the holidays, my uncles and I befriended Father Gaetano Tantalo, the parish priest of Tagliacozzo.
Father Gaetano could read and write very well in Hebrew. In 1943, my uncles, pursued by the Nazis, asked Father Gaetano for hospitality
who, with the help of his sister, found a safe refuge for Pacifici's numerous family and for the Orvieto family."

"During nine months, they were shut-in and did not go out," he said, emphasizing that "Father Gaetano provided for all their needs."

"With the approach of Pesach [Jewish Passover], my uncle Enrico realized that he did not know the exact date. Father Gaetano did the
calculations and discovered that the 14th of Nissan fell on April 8 of 1944. In addition, he provided the flour to make the unleavened bread
and some new pots to be able to cook," added Pacifici.

"Thus, with the Germans two steps away from us, my uncle Enrico and his family were able to begin the Seder, the ceremony of celebration
of the Jewish Passover. Father Gaetano also took part in it."

Pacifici then added: "After the priest's death, his relatives found among his things a little box that contained a piece of unleavened
bread with which he had celebrated the Jewish Passover with my uncles."

The cause of beatification of Father Gaetano Tantalo is under way. The decree on his virtues was published in April 1995.

[mannyamador]

Protestant Holocaust scholar confronts years of denial
http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-...playstory.html
RONNIE CAPLANE
Bulletin Correspondent

Robert Ross feels at home in a synagogue, has spoken from pulpits across the country and has been the target of anti-Semites.

Yet Ross is a Protestant. He's also a leading Christian expert on the Holocaust.

Currently a professor on the faculty of Berkeley's Graduate Theological Union, Ross is the author of "So It Was True: The American Protestant Press and the Nazi Persecution of the Jews." This book, published in 1980, forced America's Christian community to confront its unwillingness to aid European Jews during World War II.

In his book, Ross reprinted hundreds of articles that originally appeared in the American Protestant press before and after the war. These articles clearly documented Nazi atrocities, and prove that Christians knew much about Nazi activities, despite widespread protestations to the contrary.

The facts were just ignored.

On four consecutive Sundays beginning Oct. 22, Ross will be in Oakland delivering a series of lectures titled "After 50 Years: Remembering the Holocaust." The series is sponsored by Oakland's Beth Jacob Congregation and Park Boulevard Presbyterian Church, where the lectures will take place, and the Jewish Community Relations Council of the Jewish Federation of the Greater
East Bay.

Ross will examine the growth of Nazi ideology and the rise of anti-Semitism, beginning with Hitler joining the National Socialist Workers Party in 1921. He will also analyze the operation of concentration camps and slave labor camps and will discuss the development of Hitler's so-called "Kingdom of Death."

A letter from a Jewish-American camp liberator to his parents, photos from slave labor camps and pages from the Mauthausen book that recorded deaths are some of the original documents Ross will introduce. On Nov. 5, Ross will be joined at the lectern by Ernie Hollander, who survived several Nazi camps.

Ross' final lecture will explore the meaning of the Holocaust, not just as an example of man's inhumanity to man but as a metaphor for evil in the world.

A veteran lecturer with over two decades of experience, Ross will also offer his perspective on shifts in attitude and reaction to the Holocaust.

At first the Christian community didn't want to hear Ross' message, he said recently. Ninety-five percent of his early speaking engagements were hosted by Jewish organizations. Ross remembers one speech he gave at a Protestant seminary: Only five people showed up.

After delivering lectures to Christian groups, Ross was regularly barraged with anti-Semitic literature and insults, he recalls.

But now, he says, many Christians who once denied or claimed ignorance of the Holocaust have come to accept the truth and their own responsibility for ignoring the facts.

While many church groups today invite camp survivors to deliver lectures and speeches, survivors were largely ignored before the 1960s.

Perhaps the most significant change has been in overall church policy.

"The church has become much more proactive," Ross said.

Many churches supported the anti-war movement of the 1970s, and other social issues since then, he said. And Ross sees this as a direct result of the churches' miserable neglect of the Nazis' victims.

His quest started 23 years ago, inspired by a fellow University of Minnesota professor of religion who, speaking of the Holocaust, said, "Five hundred thousand, maybe. But 6 million, no."

"I knew he was wrong," said Ross. "I was so embarrassed not to have enough information to challenge him." So he did what any academician would: He headed for the library. His primary goal was learning exactly how much American Protestants knew about the Jews' situation in wartime Germany.

Digging through libraries and basements at religious colleges and seminaries, Ross found over 600 articles about the Jewish situation in Germany that had been published in 52 different American Protestant periodicals between 1933 and 1945. But Ross was surprised to note that even the newspapers' editors doubted the articles' veracity.

"We hear this; we know it's being reported but we have no witnesses," Ross said the editors claimed. The news managers said they were leery of false reports, such as those printed during World War I.

As a Christian and as a professor of religion, Ross had to understand the whats, whys and hows of Nazi Germany, he said.

"Ninety-two to 95 percent [of those] who participated in [the Holocaust] were baptized as Christians. If the Jews are the victims, then Christians are the perpetrators," he said. "We must accept, as a Christian community, what happened to those" victims.

Ross has interviewed survivors and liberators, visited death camps and slave labor camps, read Holocaust literature and published many rticles. His collection of original documents continues to grow. Eventually these documents will be donated to the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C. but until then, he uses them to illustrate his lectures.

Ross sees the Holocaust as the natural result of the kind of bureaucracy that carries out orders and never asks questions. When he started his work, Ross wanted to gain knowledge in order to join Jews who declare, "Never again."

But he still sees widespread evidence of bureaucratic indifference, noting that requests for aid to troubled nations often sit on diplomats' desks for months and even years on end, eliciting no response.

Does such passivity amount to complicity or complacency -- or both? Ross said. Paraphrasing U.S. Navy Admiral Hyman Rickover, he said, "Complacency is complicity."

[mannyamador]

Martin Luther's dirty little book:
On the Jews and their lies
A precursor to Nazism
by Jim Walker
http://www.nobeliefs.com/luther.htm

Martin Luthe's hate-filled work is one of the first modern works of anti-semitism. Luther is not only the source of the pillars of protestant theology (Luther made up sola scriptura,"following the Bible alone", and sola fide, justifcation by "faith alone"), he is also one of the sources of long-standing anti-semitism in the protestant churches! It probably helps explain why these churches did so little about the Holocaust (in contrast to the Catholic Church which actively -- although in secret -- saved over 800,000 Jews). Perhaps this is why so many anti-Catholics want to pin the Holocaust on the Catholic Church: to hide their own guilt!

[weedmeister2]

Heheheh, yeah, they were all forced to salute... and smile, and shake hands... and hang around... and make concordats with the nazis.... and pose with guns too... hehehe

Even pictures lie in your world, manny? Damn, have you been brainwashed good... LIAR na sad ko bai? heheheh grabehhhhh

yeah, a picture of a priest with a pretty woman should not be misconstrued, but a picture of a priest with his hand on the woman's breast, well that's what you would call "caught in the act", right? or LIAR gihapon? hahahaha So all those guys were "forced" to salute eh? who says? manny the historian? nag "photo ops" ra diay ang priests with the soldiers? or vice versa? nyahahhhh watevahhhh....


Nice to see you polluting your thread with biased cut 'n pastes, just like the Desert Farter...

[weedmeister2]

okay manny, so we have established that you would not take my sources as viable, and you would not take pictures for what they show... fine, lets work with books and unbiased sources, since you seem to deem them accurate, as far as your cutting and pasting goes:

Hitler's Pope : The Secret History of Pius XII (Hardcover)

by John Cornwell

Viking Adult (October 1, 1999)


This devastating account of the ecclesiastical career of Eugenio Pacelli (1876-195, who became Pope Pius XII in 1939, is all the more powerful because British historian John Cornwell maintains throughout a measured though strongly critical tone. After World War II, murmurs of Pacelli's callous indifference to the plight of Europe's Jews began to be heard. A noted commentator on Catholic issues, Cornwell began research for this book believing that "if his full story were told, Pius XII's pontificate would be exonerated." Instead, he emerged from the Vatican archives in a state of "moral shock," concluding that Pacelli displayed anti-Semitic tendencies early on and that his drive to promote papal absolutism inexorably led him to collaboration with fascist leaders. Cornwell convincingly depicts Cardinal Secretary of State Pacelli pursuing Vatican diplomatic goals that crippled Germany's large Catholic political party, which might otherwise have stymied Hitler's worst excesses. The author's condemnation has special force because he portrays the admittedly eccentric Pacelli not as a monster but as a symptom of a historic wrong turn in the Catholic Church. He meticulously builds his case for the painful conclusion that "Pacelli's failure to respond to the enormity of the Holocaust was more than a personal failure, it was a failure of the papal office itself and the prevailing culture of Catholicism."

Relying on exclusive access to Vatican and Jesuit archives, an award-winning Roman Catholic journalist argues that through a 1933 Concordat with Hitler, Pope Pius XII facilitated the dictator's rise and, ultimately, the Holocaust.

[weedmeister2]

Unholy Trinity : The Vatican, The Nazis, & The Swiss Banks (Paperback)

by Mark Aarons, John Loftus

St. Martin's Griffin; New Rev edition (June 15, 199


Head-spinning documentation of how Vatican immunity shielded Nazi war criminals from just punishment--and unwittingly aided the Communist cause. Aarons is an Australian expert on Nazi fugitives; Loftus (The Belarus Secret, 1982) is the former chief prosecutor of the Justice Department's Nazi War Crimes Unit. Vatican accommodation of Nazi escapees is well known. Less known is that by 1944 Soviet intelligence had penetrated German intelligence and was using the Vatican, which was smuggling tens of thousands of Nazis to Argentina and elsewhere via diplomatic immunity, to infiltrate the Nazi escapees with large cadres of Communist spies. Similarly, Red spies joined the German scientists being swept off to Britain and America immediately after the war (without standing trial for war crimes); thereafter, the Soviets were privy to atomic secrets firsthand. Much of this activity, according to the authors, sprang from an episode in which Papal Nuncio Eugenio Pacelli (later Pope Pius XII) was attacked by Communists in Munich on May Day 1919 and became a fervent, lifelong anti-Communist. Thus came about his ties with the Nazis, who during the Nazi occupation of Italy threatened the Vatican's very survival. Referring to the infiltration of British intelligence at its top levels by Soviet spies, Aarons and Loftus proclaim that ``behind the Nazis were the Vatican, behind the Vatican were the British, behind the British were the Communists.'' One old spy, though, told the authors, ``Forget the Communists. Trace the money.'' Doing this, they report briefly--perhaps as a teaser for their promised follow-up book--on clever international banking concerns outwitting WW II politicians, militarists, and intelligence services for their own aggrandizement. Much that is new, all of it disturbing.