RELIGION....(part 2)

[yori]

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Sorry to disappoint you. I don't.

but you sure look like you know alot from the bible..whats your religion bro. dacs?

Huh? We were talking about historical events that are extra-biblical. The one I am arguing with believed that the Bible is the sole rule of faith for a Christian, and I am rebutting with that in mind. I intend to impress upon this person that even the Bible shows that some of his beliefs are wrong for a Christian.

oopps!, my mistake...i haven't read the whole thread yet...i must be barking at the wrong tree...sorry about that...it's just that i saw one post from you quoting verses from the bible...

I, on the other hand, do not believe that the Bible is like a science book with its empirical evidences. It was not meant to be a science book. It is not meant to show us the way to the stars. The proof you are asking is in fact beyond science. Meta-physical, supernatural, transcendent...

let me ask you this, how do you perceive the bible? for me, i see the bible as an ordinary book with works from different authors talking about history, experiences(which i dont believe in), folktales...etc...

Now, you are the one who should be asked for proof of that assertion.

what you dont know that the bible is a work of different authors?? want me to name some of those authors? perhaps you know matthew, mark, luke and john? i dont need proofs for that...you could just look it up in the bible...

Bro, if you are blind since birth, how would you be able to describe the colors white, green, blue and the rest? Man can only put into words what he experiences. If this is the best man can do to describe whatever was revealed to him to have transpired, then be it so.

EXACTLY!!! that's what im talking about, its subjective to the author. we dont know if what he has written is true or just his mere creative imagination playing around. so why believe so much in the bible

Do you really know what the phrase 'in our own image and likeness' mean to a Hebrew? Please research on that. You may be surprised how different is your understanding from theirs.

i've tried using the yahoo! search engines and unfortunately,i didn't find it... perhaps you could share to me/us what it means... and please show me/us the article about it...


btw, do i know you? you're a teacher ryt?

[Djames]

Dacs, u made reactions on what i have posted. Sentence by sentence, but u never shared ur opinion about how to be save in your religion. its more on how to defend Roman Catholic faith naman hinoon. U want me to quote verses to support on what i believe? and end up debating? lets nt make a replica on what had happen to the devil when he tempted Jesus christ after He fasted. The devil itself quote verses from the bible, but it surely leads to distruction. pls bro, dont do that. Just share ur opinion nalang about Salvation. rather than ato paka ulawan ang ato Ginoo considering that we only have the same God. I dont do debate bro. if anad ka na mo adto sa freedom park na makig debate well thats you. its so sad na Christian to christian ang nag debate, mo katawa lang ang muslim ana brod. I hope u get my point. and secondly, stop using 3 names in one person, i already knew you. basin ma a-an ka nga TRINITY dre sa istorya. naa na sad unya patron saint sa istorya na e canonize sa( HOLY FATHER) sto. papa.

[milk]

wala jud ni kahumanan...

[Sovabon]

wala jud ni kahumanan...

Wala jud. It is the beauty of this thread.

Pondering the lyrics of the song...
I'llshare my Faith with others everyday
I'll share my Faith, there's no time for delay
When JESUS calls for volunteers
I'll hasten to obey
I'll share, share, share my Faith everyday.

[Cardinal Bunal]

TETELESTAI

In Christian orthodoxy or in Christianity for that matter, we are called to be perfect. As our Heavenly Father is perfect. (Matt. 5: 4, yet it is not an impossible attainment because CHRIST has perfected us by his death and ressurection! (Heb. 10: 14)
As the apostle Paul writes, it is credited to us as righteousness to those who believe because Christ was handed over to die for our sins and was raised for our justification. (Romans 4: 24 - 25)

All ordinances of Christianity are even centered on the fact that Christ has died because God cancelled the written code and all it's legal demands.

1. Baptism (Col. 2: 12, read all of Romans chapter 6)
2. The Lord's Supper (1 Cor. 11: 26)

The point is there is no one good. If we are counted as righteous, it is a righteousness that is NOT our own, (2 Cor. 5: 21) but because we have been set free, we no longer should live for ourselves but for Him who for our sake died and was raised. (2 Cor. 5: 14, 15 ).......... it is for freedom Christ has died to set us free.....we have been set free NOT to gratify and backslip in our sinful nature but free to serve one another in love. (Gal. 3: 1, 13)

This is the Good News of the Gospel!Â* Does the Roman Catholic Church affirm this basic truth and central theme of Christ being handed over for our sins and raised for our justification?

[mannyamador]

The RC can't claim to be a pillar and foundation of truth either if Truth has been corrupted and contaminated with bitter root.

You have to PROVE that it's doctrines have been corrupted. So far, every attempt of yours to do so has failed miserably.

does it mean that if a pontiff can err apart from ex cathedra? Is a Papal bull then a "secular, man-made" decision with no supposed inspiration from the Spirit? Issuing the seal is still decision making nonetheless and I see no difference with it being a declaration.

That's because you choose to be blind.

You make the logical error of confusing corruption of DOCTRINE with corruption (sins) of ordinary men. The two are quite different.

The sins of men do NOT necessarily reflect the validity/invalidity of a doctrine. You and your pastors sin everyday when you misrepresent the doctrines of the Catholic Church. That sin is called lying. By your logic then, YOUR wacko church cannot be the pillar and foundation of truth.

The truth of the matter, however, is that official decisions, including papal bulls and encyclicals, are NOT EX CATHEDRA DEFINITION OF DOCTRINE. Doctrine is operationally defined in three ways:

1. By Christ and His Apostles. This is the original deposit of faith given to the Catholic Church.
2. By legitimate Church Councils that EXPLICITLY define doctrine.
3. By the Pope when he EXPLICITLY STATES HE IS DEFINING DOCTRINE (that is what an ex cathedra statement is).

In all other cases, any doctrinal implications are NOT definite, dogmatic, or infallible. That is why errors by ANY Catholic, no matter what his position, do not necessarily reflect the validity/invalidity of Catholic doctrine. Only an error in dogma as defined by the Councils or the Pope can "corrupt" Catholic doctrine.

An you have totally failed to show even one erroneous Catholic doctrine. Not a single one.

In contrast, we have been able to show that the two most basic protestant doctrinal pillars -- sola scriptura (that scripture alone is the doctrinal authority) and sola fide (salvation by faith alone) -- are totally FALSE and UNSCRIPTURAL.

If you disagree, I challenge you for the umpteenth time, show me even a single verse that clearly teaches those two. You can't becasue such verses do not exist.

In other words, your own Bible has proven you WRONG AGAIN.

That's probably why you resort to misepresenting Catholic doctrine. That is dishonest and maki you nothing more than a LIAR. Perhaps that is what your kind io Christianity teaches.

[makusama]

EXACTLY!!! that's what im talking about, its subjective to the author. we dont know if what he has written is true or just his mere creative imagination playing around. so why believe so much in the bible

let me ask you this, how do you perceive the bible? for me, i see the bible as an ordinary book with works from different authors talking about history, experiences(which i dont believe in), folktales...etc...

That is exactly why manny said that the Bible is not a Science Book. It is a book of faith!

Even our own official history books taught to us since kindergarten are dictated by its authors... expecially from people/authors who experienced it one way or another...

How can you believe that Hilter really existed? Did you see him? Did you shake his hand? Have you ever talked to him?

How can you believe your father or your mother is really your mother or father? Did you do a DNA test?

Infact how can you believe anything in this world?

Going back to my point.. everything is about faith (belief, trust, moral and logical principles)

The BIBLE is a book of faith towards God specifically Jesus Christ

In Christian orthodoxy or in Christianity for that matter, we are called to be perfect. As our Heavenly Father is perfect. (Matt. 5: 4, yet it is not an impossible attainment because CHRIST has perfected us by his death and ressurection! (Heb. 10: 14)
As the apostle Paul writes, it is credited to us as righteousness to those who believe because Christ was handed over to die for our sins and was raised for our justification. (Romans 4: 24 - 25)

All ordinances of Christianity are even centered on the fact that Christ has died because God cancelled the written code and all it's legal demands.

1. Baptism (Col. 2: 12, read all of Romans chapter 6)
2. The Lord's Supper (1 Cor. 11: 26)

The point is there is no one good. If we are counted as righteous, it is a righteousness that is NOT our own, (2 Cor. 5: 21) but because we have been set free, we no longer should live for ourselves but for Him who for our sake died and was raised. (2 Cor. 5: 14, 15 ).......... it is for freedom Christ has died to set us free.....we have been set free NOT to gratify and backslip in our sinful nature but free to serve one another in love. (Gal. 3: 1, 13)

This is the Good News of the Gospel! Does the Roman Catholic Church affirm this basic truth and central theme of Christ being handed over for our sins and raised for our justification?

No true Christian... Catholic or Protestant can say he is righteous and deserves to be in heaven. Even if you have not sinned since birth you still do not deserve to be in heaven with out the grace of God. Doesnt the Catholic Church teach this? YES it does! and so does the Protestant faith. If you have been a Catholic once before and have really gone to even about a dozen Sunday Masses you would understand this. That is if you were listening to the mass and not drooling on the sight of a back end of a HOT CHICk or busy sleeeping or texting a friend some stupid Erap jokes and stuff.

[makusama]

@mannyamador
-easy on your comments. You can still be right even if you do not use demeaning language in your comments. DO not be blinded by your anger... (pina star wars bah... )

Anyways I understand you and back you up in all of your comments and defence on the catholic faith. I may not be the perfect christian myself but I know my faith.. I am just not good following it... but I try my best to do so... and do not make my own interpretations and shift or make my own religion for my own convenience like some of the people in history...

[mannyamador]

Anyways I understand you and back you up in all of your comments and defence on the catholic faith. I may not be the perfect christian myself but I know my faith.. I am just not good following it... but I try my best to do so... and do not make my own interpretations and shift or make my own religion for my own convenience like some of the people in history...

That's good. Keep on trying. Christ never asks of us more han we can give. He supplies the rest!

What we also have to do is affirm the truth of the teachings He passed on to the Church and not he man-made false teachings that come out of personal interpretations! God bless!

[dacs]

Now, you are the one who should be asked for proof of that assertion.

what you dont know that the bible is a work of different authors?? want me to name some of those authors? perhaps you know matthew, mark, luke and john? i dont need proofs for that...you could just look it up in the bible...

You made a generalization - 'We all know ...' - which has been disproven time and again in my roounds around forums. That is what I am asking you to prove. Please do.

Bro, if you are blind since birth, how would you be able to describe the colors white, green, blue and the rest? Man can only put into words what he experiences. If this is the best man can do to describe whatever was revealed to him to have transpired, then be it so.

EXACTLY!!! that's what im talking about, its subjective to the author. we dont know if what he has written is true or just his mere creative imagination playing around. so why believe so much in the bible

NOT EXACTLY!!! Every witness in a court of law will deliver his personal version of the crime, subject to his experiences and filters. Does it mean that the witness cannot be trusted? No. Can you prove that it was only creative imagination playing around when the Bible was written by those people? If you can, then do so.

Do you really know what the phrase 'in our own image and likeness' mean to a Hebrew? Please research on that. You may be surprised how different is your understanding from theirs.

i've tried using the yahoo! search engines and unfortunately,i didn't find it... perhaps you could share to me/us what it means... and please show me/us the article about it...

You are the one who made the positive assertion, bro. The burden of proof is with you. Anyway, it shows that you have not tried hard enough to understand what this phrase mean. Yet, you arrived to the conclusion you have given. How would I know that you have given enough time to reconsider the position of the Christians regarding the Bible. You claim to be a Catholic; yet, you don't believe on the Bible as it is believed by Catholics (I even doubt if you really know how Catholics view the Bible). That is a sad thing. You claim to be a Catholic while not being one...