RELIGION....(part 2)

[Cardinal Bunal]

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WRONG. Papal bulls are NOT EX CATHEDRA statements. If you even bothered to read the Catechism, you will see that an ex cathedra statement is explicitly stated as such and must be a statement on doctrine and morals. The bulls on the inquisitions, were not ex cathedra nor doctrinal or moral in nature.

Not every word is a term. Not every term is a definition. They're the same thing! ;b

Though not officially! It is not issued by a bishop, it is not issued by a priest or any other presbyter in the Roman church. It is issued by the pontiff. It's the same!

[mannyamador]

Though not officially! It is not issued by a bishop, it is not issued by a priest or any other presbyter in the Roman church. It is issued by the pontiff. It's the same!

Wrong again. You obvioulsy haven't the faintest idea what an ex cathedra statememnt is, do you? Kindly reads the definition in the Catechism. Or are you so afraid to really understand Catholic doctrine?

Any statement made by a Pope is NOT ex cathedra unless explicitly declared as such. The Pope's opinions, policies, official declarations, encyclicals, etc. are NOT infallible ex cathedra statements. An infallible ex cathedra statement by a Pope must also involve defining doctrine or morals. In all of history there have only been two ex cathedra statements by Catholic Popes. One was in the 19th century and another was by Pope Jonh XXIII. They had to do with Mary. None had anyhting to do with inqusitions.

So, It looks like I've caught you LYING again. I guess that's the kind of thing your brand of "christianity" teaches.

To attack a doctrine by misrepresenting it is unbelievably dishonest! And you call yourself a Christian? What a shameless hypocrite!

[mannyamador]

I hope on both side Catholics and Protestants would try to solve/ teach correctly each time we hear these lies comming out from peoples mouths..

I hope for the same. But as you can see from CardinaBunal's posts, some persons have no interest in the truth. They just want to score points and will do it even if they have to lie outright. Maybe they think God is happy with lies.

[mannyamador]

(Re) Converting Born-Again Christians
Bernardo M. Villegas
November 28, 2003 Manila Bulletin

DO you have a relative or friend who left the Catholic faith and became a
born-again Protestant? Or are you yourself a former Catholic who now
swears to "Sola Scriptura" (the Bible alone) or refuses to pray to the
Blessed Virgin Mary or other saints?

With all due respects to the sincerity of those who left the Catholic
faith, I am positive they really never understood the doctrines of
Catholicism. This conviction of mine has been reinforced by the second
volume of Surprised by Truth - a collection of eye-opening accounts by
more than a dozen new Catholics who reveal why they changed their minds
about their old beliefs and entered (or re-entered) the Catholic Church.
The book is a must for all those who sincerely want answers to their
objections to or doubts about the main tenets of the Catholic faith.

One of the essays in this book is titled "A Cafeteria Catholic Returns to
the Table of the Lord." Reared in the Catholic faith, Nancy Montgomery
tells the story about how she and her husband almost left the Church were
it not for a series of books that opened her eyes to the real doctrine
(not a caricature) of the Catholic faith. Let her tell the story herself:
"...Jeff was soon transferred to a new job on the East Coast. Because our
oldest child would have to attend school in a very dangerous neighborhood,
we decided to homeschool. It was a Godsend.

"From other Catholic homeschoolers, I started hearing about Catholic
writers and speakers unknown to me before. First it was an audiotape of
Scott Hahn, a Protestant minister who had become Catholic. A friend told
me about Patrick Madrid's Surprised by Truth, a collection of several
converts' spiritual journeys into the Catholic faith. Then I learned of
Fr. Mitch Pacwa, a priest whose books explain the New Age phenomenon and
offer spiritual direction to confused, frustrated Catholics. I discovered
Envoy, a new contemporary magazine for Catholics. A tape by former
Protestant minister Steve Wood explained Marian devotion to me. For the
first time, I found myself -- an average Catholic -- being encouraged to
read such writings as papal encyclicals, the Catechism of the Catholic
Church, the documents of Vatican II, and the lives of the saints.

"In no time at all, I had built a virtual Jacob's ladder of books on my
night stand, and I used it to climb toward God every night before falling
asleep, one book at a time. I was thrilled to learn from these books what
the Church really teaches and how sensible it is. One issue, however,
still gave me trouble: contraception. I just couldn't accept the Church's
teaching about it. "One morning, while out walking, I pressed God with
another bold prayer. 'If You don't help me understand the Church's
teaching on contraception, I'll never be able to embrace it.' As I
approached my house, I noticed in my mailbox an issue of a magazine called
Catholic Dossier -- and the issue's theme was contraception. I began to
read.

"The more I learned about Pope Paul VI's predictions in his encyclical
Humanae Vitae (On human life) of the sinister effects of contraception,
the more I found myself muttering, 'People are willing to believe that
Nostradamus could predict the future, but they refuse to see the truth of
these predictions about contraception -- which have already come to pass!"

From my own experiences dealing with friends or relatives who left the
Catholic Church, arguments and debates do not accomplish anything. There
is no substitute to an honest effort to re-examine one's views by reading
the appropriate books.

As Marcus Grodi, a convert himself, writes in the Foreword to Surprised By
Truth (Volume 2): "Over years of careful but mostly mindless
construction, each of us has built a wall around our soul to protect our
vulnerable selves. Conversion - whether to Jesus Christ or subsequently to
His Church - happens when a crack forms in this wall of emotional and
intellectual defenses. Those cracks can occur at any time. The Spirit uses
crises or success, pain or pleasure, temptation or inspiration to make
these cracks. Since we often grasp the first thing that penetrates through
them, evangelization involves, not making those cracks -- that's God's
business -- but surrounding those defenses with Truth in anticipation of
the cracks that will form. That's why there's hardly a better tool for
communicating the fullness of the Catholic Faith in a winsome and moving
way than this collection of personal stories."

I would highly recommend Surprised By Truth (Volumes 1 and 2) to Catholics
who want to understand their faith better or non-Catholics honestly
seeking the truth. Copies are available at Totus Bookstore, 2nd Floor, Red
Ribbon Bldg., Connecticut corner Missouri Sts., Greenhills, San Juan, Tel.
No. 723-4326, e-mail: totusbookstore.com . I cannot think of a better
Christmas gift for someone you want to attract back to the full truth of
the Catholic faith.

[yori]

dacs, i have noticed that you always quote verses from the bible...you must really know it (the bible) like the back of your hands...
as what i've read from your recent posts, you were asking proofs about someones article...(i haven't read the article yet though)...
could you then show me a proof or article which shows that everything that the bible says is true...

we all know that the bible are works of different authors collected and combined into one book...which makes the works written in it subjective to the authors. right? so, why do you believe so much on the words written in it? just look at the book of genesis, about god creating adam and eve in his image and likeness...why is it that the first human bones discovered did not even look like us right now? is the bible saying that god looked just like them when he created everything??


i have nothing against christians, FYI, im a roman catholic... its just that they use the bible as references wherein its credibility
is questionable...

[dacs]

dacs, i have noticed that you always quote verses from the bible...you must really know it (the bible) like the back of your hands...

Sorry to disappoint you.Â* I don't.

as what i've read from your recent posts, you were asking proofs about someones article...(i haven't read the article yet though)...
could you then show me a proof or article which shows that everything that the bible says is true...

Huh?Â* We were talking about historical events that are extra-biblical.Â* The one I am arguing with believed that the Bible is the sole rule of faith for a Christian, and I am rebutting with that in mind.Â* I intend to impress upon this person that even the Bible shows that some of his beliefs are wrong for a Christian.

I, on the other hand, do not believe that the Bible is like a science book with its empirical evidences.Â* It was not meant to be a science book.Â* It is not meant to show us the way to the stars.Â* The proof you are asking is in fact beyond science.Â* Meta-physical, supernatural, transcendent...

we all know that the bible are works of different authors collected and combined into one book...which makes the works written in it subjective to the authors. right?

Now, you are the one who should be asked for proof of that assertion.

so, why do you believe so much on the words written in it? just look at the book of genesis, about god creating adam and eve in his image and likeness...why is it that the first human bones discovered did not even look like us right now? is the bible saying that god looked just like them when he created everything??

Bro, if you are blind since birth, how would you be able to describe the colors white, green, blue and the rest?Â* Man can only put into words what he experiences.Â* If this is the best man can do to describe whatever was revealed to him to have transpired, then be it so.

Do you really know what the phrase 'in our own image and likeness' mean to a Hebrew?Â* Please research on that.Â* You may be surprised how different is your understanding from theirs.

i have nothing against christians, FYI, im a roman catholic... its just that they use the bible as references wherein its credibility
is questionable...

How convenient!

Prove it.

[Gwynhuever]

Let us stop saying "ay bati mana inyoha amo moy nindot!"

and start saying

"kinsa man atong pakan-on karong adlawa? kinsa man atong tabangan karong adlawa? unsa pa kahay paagi na mapalipay nato ang ginoo karong dalawa?"

kuyog ko nimo ani bro....

[makusama]

@ Gwynhuever
-hehehehe duha nata!

[Cardinal Bunal]

I hope for the same. But as you can see from CardinaBunal's posts, some persons have no interest in the truth. They just want to score points and will do it even if they have to lie outright. Maybe they think God is happy with lies.

The RC can't claim to be a pillar and foundation of truth either if Truth has been corrupted and contaminated with bitter root.

So if I was wrong above, does it mean that if a pontiff can err apart from ex cathedra? Is a Papal bull then a "secular, man-made" decision with no supposed inspiration from the Spirit? Issuing the seal is still decision making nonetheless and I see no difference with it being a declaration.

[Gwynhuever]

@ Gwynhuever
-hehehehe duha nata!

bro/sis....mayta managhan ta!