MERGED: CPP-NPA-NDF Discussions (Issues, Updates, etc.)

[The_Child]

and i wonder how many of your young people today know or would have the time to understand the myriad "isms" (imperialism, feudalism, bureaucrat capitalism...) these "revolutionaries" have been fighting against - not to mention the isms they are also fighting for - ever since they were organized.


i surmise a minority.

mao na way asenso ang pilipinas kay ang mga tao malipay naman kung maka kaon, maka kuha ug degree, maka trabaho, maka tukod ug balay etc... Way asenso ang pilipinas, kay mga tao way paki. Apathy and Mediocrity haunts our society. T'is a typical middle-class attitude. Educated, pero malipay na makakuha ug passing mark. Malling, TV, Bars, etc., no time for the -isms. hehehehe.

[giddyboy]

of course we should not because the people's legitimate concerns will find expression in any means necessary. the very presence and persistence of the underground movement only hints of the ineffectiveness of the above-ground means to address their grievances.

it's not just all about grievances, but it's more of political ideas. Communism is an idea.

it seems that you are judging administrations based on the personal misdeeds of the president, as well as how the people acted on it. that's quite an after-the-fact observation. more than personal misdeeds, i am taking about actual economic policies if indeed they are working for or against the interest of the people. it would be interesting to compare the major policies, concerning the youth for example, of each administration, from marcos to arroyo, and see for ourselves if indeed these served the interest of the people.

well, one way ra na bro...socio-economic policy is another, as u mentioned.

care to elaborate?

it's a case-to-case basis. 1 political bulletin: pgma highlighted as good news that the peso is the best performing currency in asia due to our improving economic performance, blah, blah, blah...well that also did not feature any negative sides, di ba? we then get euphoric, sometimes doubtful, sometimes denying, sometimes unaccepting...all a mix of reactions. now that is alright when the US economy is not yet falling and the world oil is not yet very high. but with these new updates, we see now that the fast rise of the peso is harmful to some sectors, and not anymore good news. that's why we now heard pgma changed her tone regarding this issue.

"the best propaganda is sometimes completely truthful."

the solution for this kind of dis-information is simply to provide the correct information that could shape an opinion that aligns itself with the people's interest, thereby empowering them to make the right decisions.

it's just that nowadays, when you provide the correct information (which may happen to run counter to what the powers that be wants to show), you are automatically labeled as a misfit, a 'deviant', a 'rebel', a 'terrorist', a 'destabilizer', a 'communist', thereby justifying your elimination. and by 'elimination' i mean 'death'.

haha. correct information, but sometimes deviant approach lagi...mao na, and labeling is of course is due to the individual's biases, in most cases....and for the elimination by 'death' thingy, some or most of it is alleged ra.

which, as you understand it, is?

ideals based on Mao Zedong (Mao Tse-tung in the west)...

and according to Mao's ideals, which is a semi-marxist idea, his ideas contained military strategy...

China is essentially no longer a 'communist' country. North Korea may retain a socialist structure, but it is mired in Kim's dictatorship; it is not exactly a model for socialism.

yup. post-modern na lang.

it's not a surprise that CPP-NPA is demonized really. granted that it has made terrible mistakes in the past, but propaganda wars alone, the GRP has an edge.

terrible mistakes in the past and the present...

we can only be "caught in between the warfare" if we become too apathetic to know where we stand. i still do not know in what context do you use the term "Maoist" and "democratic" so i really don't know what you're referring to. and 'lawless violence' is really relative to who uses the term.

well, as for me, i know were i stand, and it's very clear it's not w/ the NPA. we can never forget that the NPA is an armed component, so it will be a military concern...OPPORTUNISM and FLEXIBILITY are the words for the military, but not to the state.

and what i mean by democratic is "representative democracy" w/c we now have which is far different from the type of democracy the NPAs have in mind.

sad as it may seem, there is a historical lesson that we have never learned. no matter how the government tries to crush the underground movement, as it did from Bonifacio's KKK, and the HUKBALAHAP in the 50-60's, as long as large segments of the people are marginalized by an elite class, armed revolution will always resurface. crush the CPP-NPA now and there will be something else that will take it's place. prune old branches and fresh new growth will always appear sooner or later.

lingaw ko nimo bro nga imo pa jud giapil ang KKK...

yeah lagi, their motto:"destruction of feudal oppression and of U.S. imperialism in the Philippines"...nya unsa man ni ron? OBSOLETE.

and as from a Huk leader, he said:
"I know now from experience that the nationalism of
the Communists is indeed opportunism, and that they use it
for their own ends. Any nationalist who makes an ally of
the Communist is going for a ride on a tiger. We must
learn from our lessons in the past, and this is one that
nationalists need to remember today, when once again the
Communists are trying to use them."
- Former Huk leader Luis Taruc in He Who Rides the
the Tiger: The Story of an Asian Guerilla Leader

the problem, ultimately, is not the CPP-NPA, it is the marginalization and destitution that become the fertile ground to legitimize armed revolution as and expression of a people's frustrations.

haha. assuming mawala na ang marginalization and destitution, magpa-tuli ko ug usab kng mawala pud ang NPA. Their obsolete idealism sucks, but anyways it's all about their gaining power and OPPORTUNITY ra jud... expression of frustration my a*&.

nya gatuo ta nga ang "imperialism" which Marx or Lenin said "as the highest stage of capitalism", mawala kng muad2 ta sa communism? dili intawon...Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China are practicing imperialism themselves...

TANAWA lang unsay gibuhat rn sa mga niaging adlaw sa mga NPA ay:

Former top NPA leader in Bohol, Ronald Sendrijas, was shot dead in Tagbilaran last Jan. 17 after buying medicine for his sister...see? AFAIK ila pud ni gibuhat to a certain ex-NPA Kintanar here in Cebu sauna...nya mao nay expression of frustration nila...patyon.

i will add this last time:

" You do not kill Communism with the sword and gun alone.
Communism is an idea. When a man in a rice paddy with a
hungry belly, working on land which is not his - in debt,
and his children hungry too - when a man in that position
hears somebody say: 'The land belongs to the man who
works it - come with us and we will give it to you!' then
my friend, something happens. To that man, it is a cool
wind blowing through a hell on earth."
- Ramon Magsaysay in 1953

[brownprose]

and i wonder how many of your young people today know or would have the time to understand the myriad "isms" (imperialism, feudalism, bureaucrat capitalism...) these "revolutionaries" have been fighting against - not to mention the isms they are also fighting for - ever since they were organized.


i surmise a minority.

mao na way asenso ang pilipinas kay ang mga tao malipay naman kung maka kaon, maka kuha ug degree, maka trabaho, maka tukod ug balay etc... Way asenso ang pilipinas, kay mga tao way paki. Apathy and Mediocrity haunts our society. T'is a typical middle-class attitude. Educated, pero malipay na makakuha ug passing mark. Malling, TV, Bars, etc., no time for the -isms. hehehehe.

Bisag tudlo-an pa bro, the isms we know or want to put do not guarantee if it's gonna work. We have yet to find the perfect ism/system. And even if we find one, we can never be too sure if its proponents can really deliver the difference or the change we all envision.


“It is the supreme test of a system of government whether its machinery is adequate for repressing the selfish undertakings of cliques formed on special interests and saving the public from raids of plunderers.� William Graham

[The_Child]

strangely enough, postmodernism is spelled with an ism but it is not an ism. it is the very opposite of it, it is the deconstruction of the present isms of feudalism, marxism, communism, liberalism, libertarianism, fideism...

of course there is no perfect system the only consolation we have it to approximate that ideal system.

[Labrador2]

maybe this guy is another disciple of Socrates.hehehe.Ill send you question back to you.Who said we need communist?During the time Jose Rizal wrote articles about Spaniards abuses can we say Rizal was the first communist in the Philippines?.Jose rizal can be called activist during that time.

nice question hehehehe

[baron]

^ Maybe he'll regard activism as part of communism. Not all activists are communists, mind you.

The youth should not be easily deceived with those communist groups purporting to protect the people against the government. All they wanted is to topple down the government, whoever the chief executive maybe.

If the youth wanted to advance struggle, it should not be against Arroyo but to those who wanted to waster their future with their futile ideologies.

[gareb]

The_Child:

I for one doubt that there is still a "modern" condition in prevailing societies. Not included of course, primitive societies such as the Tasadays and others, taking into consideration their special situation. The obliteration of Space and Time in communication is evidence enough of this Mcluhanesque enivronment, a global village, makes even Nepal, among many others so forgive me for saying, a part of this global village. smiley

i was referring to the socio-economic aspect of Marxism. Postmodernism's strength is on how it describes the development of society's socio-cultural axis.

mao na way asenso ang pilipinas kay ang mga tao malipay naman kung maka kaon, maka kuha ug degree, maka trabaho, maka tukod ug balay etc... Way asenso ang pilipinas, kay mga tao way paki. Apathy and Mediocrity haunts our society. T'is a typical middle-class attitude. Educated, pero malipay na makakuha ug passing mark. Malling, TV, Bars, etc., no time for the -isms. hehehehe.

and that exactly is what many of the people here want the youth to do.

baby_grace:

Encouraging the youth to join in mass actions and struggles against the government is one way of promoting lawlessness in their generation. If you teach the youth to participate in these struggles against the Arroyo administration you teach them to become offenders of the law, advocates of chaos, and future leaders of rallies and protesters. What must be taught to the youth of today is how to adhere to simple laws, teach them not to violate it and advise them how to exercise every right and freedom they have.

Teaching the youth to advance struggles against the government is like giving them the very reason to destroy their future. Then here comes again the elders saying that the children miss out on their education. Well who is to blame? It is the groups and individuals who encourage the youth to take part in extra legal activities.

say that to those who fought during the Marcos regime, as well as those youth who marched at EDSA during Erap's downfall and the guaranteed reaction would either be derision at the attitude of impunity that you adhere to, or the simplemindedness of not being able to see a wrong right under your nose, much less to do something to correct it.

[gareb]

it's not just all about grievances, but it's more of political ideas. Communism is an idea.

true. an idea becomes a recourse for people who has lost faith in the current system because of the innumerable injustices the system inflicts upon certain segments of the population.

it's a case-to-case basis.

that's just it. what the president will never mention, and will never include in her political bulletins, are the actual facts behind the supposedly-strengthening peso. which sector of the economy is expanding, and who is benefiting from this? which sector is contracting and how many people are affected? removing the factor of the weakening dollar, how much really has the peso strengthened? the entrance of massive foreign capital can affect the size of the economy; with the impeding US recession, are there guarantees that the investment will stay put, or will there be somewhat a repeat of the 1997 economic crisis with capital abruptly leaving the country? is the growth, as well as the strengthening of the peso, sustainable?

when you have a president who is adamant that the questions of her political legitimacy is offset by supposed achievements, however questionable these are too, it is not news that she can and will try to portray her administration as doing "considerable progress", a line that has been swallowed, hook, line and sinker by not a few here.

haha. correct information, but sometimes deviant approach lagi...mao na, and labeling is of course is due to the individual's biases, in most cases....and for the elimination by 'death' thingy, some or most of it is alleged ra.

people fear deviancy as if it's always bad, thinking that the established order is always good. it is simply pathetic.

and according to Mao's ideals, which is a semi-marxist idea, his ideas contained military strategy...

to grab power, of course. but Maoism isn't exactly the only political ideology that advocates a military solution to a political problem. preservation of the current status quo's ideology of "democracy" (their own usage) also requires them/it to use an armed approach.

yup. post-modern na lang.

postmodernism is best applied to describe the contemporary socio-cultural aspect of a society. the socio-economic aspect, however, is something that postmodernism has very limited influence in.

well, as for me, i know were i stand, and it's very clear it's not w/ the NPA. we can never forget that the NPA is an armed component, so it will be a military concern...OPPORTUNISM and FLEXIBILITY are the words for the military, but not to the state.

and what i mean by democratic is "representative democracy" w/c we now have which is far different from the type of democracy the NPAs have in mind.

there are very distinct and significant differences between how the NPA and the AFP operates, as armed components and as political units of the revolutionary government and the state, respectively; a fact that AFP strategists themselves have admitted.

it's strange that you speak of the supposedly "representative democracy" that we have now, thinking that the kind of democracy we have really is mere "electoral legitimization" of entrenched political dynasties who do not readily represent the interest of the people. again, i need not tell you how elections work and who and what kind of people have the best chance of being elected.

as for the NPA's brand of "democracy", well, who wants to stand up in their name and explain exactly how democracy is suppose to work, and how it actually works, inside the revolutionary government. the problem is, to we have the open mind to digest these ideas, or are we, as you have mentioned before , quick to impose labels to those things we have been trained to distrust?

lingaw ko nimo bro nga imo pa jud giapil ang KKK... yeah lagi, their motto:"destruction of feudal oppression and of U.S. imperialism in the Philippines"...nya unsa man ni ron? OBSOLETE.

only because it is a valid example. obsolete? does it explain current social realities? if so, then it is not as obsolete as we think it is.

"I know now from experience that the nationalism of the Communists is indeed opportunism, and that they use it for their own ends. Any nationalist who makes an ally of the Communist is going for a ride on a tiger. We must learn from our lessons in the past, and this is one that nationalists need to remember today, when once again the Communists are trying to use them."

opportunism? true. read Machiavelli. or perhaps, taken out of context, this is another negative rendering of a situation that would otherwise be "taking advantage of a favorable circumstance" if it happened to a more favored entity?

haha. assuming mawala na ang marginalization and destitution, magpa-tuli ko ug usab kng mawala pud ang NPA. Their obsolete idealism sucks, but anyways it's all about their gaining power and OPPORTUNITY ra jud... expression of frustration my a*&.

it was you yourself who said that the CPP-NPA is "taking advantage" or being "opportunitsic" in latching on people's frustrations, even quoting Ramon Magsaysay himself. it is but natural that when these grievances and injustices are addressed, there would be no logical reason to support an armed struggle as an expression of a non-existent frustration. their mass base, the lifeblood of the underground movement would simply wither away.

then again, in the current socio-political and socio-economiclset up, i'd gladly have my d*ck cut off if could ever have something that would resemble equality and freedom from destitution in the truest sense of the word.

nya gatuo ta nga ang "imperialism" which Marx or Lenin said "as the highest stage of capitalism", mawala kng muad2 ta sa communism? dili intawon...Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China are practicing imperialism themselves...

gez man, you really should study more on what Lenin meant by that, and how the former USSR and China aren't the only possible expressions of socialism and communism, as well as how the word "empire" is used.

Former top NPA leader in Bohol, Ronald Sendrijas, was shot dead in Tagbilaran last Jan. 17 after buying medicine for his sister...see? AFAIK ila pud ni gibuhat to a certain ex-NPA Kintanar here in Cebu sauna...nya mao nay expression of frustration nila...patyon.

oh, i admire your sources of information for being so accurate, as well as complete.

[giddyboy]

@The_Child:

well, apathy and mediocrity in our society's youth is only a perception to those who want to generalize it as rampant. but it's not the case why wala ta mo asenso like other Asian nations. in fact, all society has some degree of apathy & mediocrity...

what may be missed out here in this thread is "youth activism" or "youth voice" that also leads to "student activism"...

youth activism has 3 forms:

(1) social activism - this the most pre-dominant form, organized, informed, led, and assessed by adults.

(2) youth-driven activism - young people are the primary movers within an adult-led movement.

(3) youth-led community organizing - action which is conceived of, designed, enacted, challenged, redesigned, and driven entirely by young people.

and mind u, we have lots in those categories...so don't tell me kulang ang Pinas sa "youth activism" that makes us wala ni asenso.

Just look what role the youth did during EDSA I and EDSA 2. The youth was a significant factor to political change. and the relevance of youth activism in today's Phil. society cannot be over-emphasized.

However most laymen of today, the Juan next door, sees activism as being rebellious- being noisy and petty.

Thirty years ago, activism was highly respected and admired. Activists were found daring and exciting. Activists of the yesteryears are now influential, political leaders.

Unfortunately, babies born of the 1970’s, grew of suppression and colonial dominance, drawing up a somewhat passive behavior. Furthermore, college education became commercialized; thus, the dissent of youth movement. But then came the Ninoy Aquino assassination. Though student activists’ grades then were not as impressive as their predecessors, and strategies not as good, the event marked a quantum leap in the student movement. Once more, youth activism became an awesome power in the Philippines.

and sometimes, the still growing youth, unable to contain vibrant energy, shows forth his impulsiveness and impatience. Making him an eager beaver, willing to go where ‘no man has gone before’.

And finally, modern knowledge and sophistication is rampant among the studentry. With these, they have become concerned with more than just petty problems. They have developed a keen awareness of society, environment, government, and human rights.

These factors fuel teenagers from being mere TV-watching juveniles to courageous, outstanding radicals.

"the 3% who although insignificant in number are the negative leaders . . . the radicals . . . who know what they want and will plan to get what they want through whatever means . . . the 12% leaders who are intelligent enough but do not know what they want, but would be willing to be swayed, once their idealism is caught . . . the 85% ‘sheep’ . . . the apathetic students . . . those who do not know what they want . . . who do not say what they want . . . but when added to a dynamic leader, will act accordingly . . . to achieve what is painted as ideal.�
---(A quotation from Fr. James Culligan, who analyzed the composition of the studentry in 1970)

it states an apathetic 85% of the youth that could be moved once under a dynamic leader. There is always hope! But what is it in a leader or in any activist in fact that should be cultivated in order to achieve a set goal?

· One ought to see and maximize the power of the majority, especially the youth.
· One must be able to analyze society, criticize it, and suggest changes with a must-hear voice.
· Militants should remain credible by excelling in their studies.
· One must be flexible to the changing times.
· One must start from and with the students.
· One must be creative.
· One must use the facilities of mass media to the hilt.
· It would be more beneficial if the faculty supported the movement.
· The group would be better united even amidst political adversity.

SOURCE: wikipedia, and, Athena Catedral (2006)

[baby_grace]

^ Maybe he'll regard activism as part of communism. Not all activists are communists, mind you.

The youth should not be easily deceived with those communist groups purporting to protect the people against the government. All they wanted is to topple down the government, whoever the chief executive maybe.

If the youth wanted to advance struggle, it should not be against Arroyo but to those who wanted to waster their future with their futile ideologies.

The money the parents use to send their kids to school is wasted when these young ones eventually join unlawful associations when they grow up. No matter who is the sitting President, as long as the communists, the critics, and the pessimists continue to reject the leadership of such President these people will influence the youth for the advancement of their false cause. And these youth, when they grow up, will become the new leaders of activist groups against the future administrations. Who becomes the loser? The future generations.