Free will: Absolute or Not? Should all the blame be upon humanity?

[potterboy]

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karon pako kabantay da. usabna diay ni ang title. Free Will: Absolute or not?

i think not.

[tripwire]

IMO, it's a matter of personal opinion. As for me, no such thing as free will... why? it will cost you at the end.

[geoseph]

This is not gospel truth. I also want to learn. I mean it like sharing notes with classmates, with the hope for further learning.
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My understanding of partially free will is that it is also self determination (not in the sense of not giving up). My understanding of self determination is that it is the ability to be a cause unto one's self alone, for at least one instance, independent of the not self, at the moment of causation (autonomous system rinses and repeats as necessary).

I visualize the issue of self determination as like a feedback loop.

input ---> body -------*---> output
^ |
|_ mind _|

The input and output diagram shows cause and effect or strict determinism. The feedback loop shows that the mind is able to influence the body in the chain of cause and effect.

If the mind is totally subservient to the body, then there is no self causation, hence no self determination, therefore no free will.

However, if the mind is able to redefine itself by itself alone (may be over time), as a (perhaps partial) cause unto its own self, for at least one instance, then it is able to also influence the body regardless of it (perhaps on occasion).
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Another sense is like an island isolated from the rest of the world. From the point of view of the world, it is able to live its affairs independent of it, hence it is being self determined. In this sense, it exercises its free will with respect to the rest of the world.

From this, it seems free will is also a matter of independence relative to something else. But in this example, independence was literally due to isolation.
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Going back to the body-mind system, the question also is if the mind is sometimes capable of effectively isolating itself from the body, and in effect, making the mind (sometimes) self determined with respect to the body, yet retaining the ability to also influence it.

Perhaps the key to this effective isolation is not in the literal sense, but rather in that the mind works on its own mechanism (somewhat) effectively independent of the body's own mechanism (though using it), like the relative independence software has with respect to hardware. For example, Java will run on any computer, as long as that computer has the software to run it.
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Even if the mechanism of the mind itself is deterministic, the relative isolation it has from the body can make it self determined or possessing of free will with respect to the body, thus making the body, in turn, relatively self determined or free willed with respect to the rest of the world.
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I don't totally discount determinism since, I now have a headache and have to rest, hehehe.

[SPIKE_CSA]

Tua na..

Abi nako ug dili ka tawo SPIKE_CSA..
Tawo diay ka? ADD ka?

Mao nga maminaw na lang ta ug "IMAGINE" ni John Lennon

ayaw intawn pagbinata NASYO oi, dili ka mauwaw sa imong fellow catholics anang imong kina-iya? stick to the topic..

nagdako lng na imong lawas pero imong utok murag bata...mauwaw biya ta ana..

aw pero ug wa sad kay uwaw aw imo sad na hehehe

ug ako lng klarohon ha, DILI KO ADD... i belong to evangelical christians

[SPIKE_CSA]

Well, those were just my professional questions. If you don't understand it, it is alright. If we could refrain from assumptions, would you promise to answer the question according to your knowledge and not on your opinion?

The question was "giunsa nimo pagkasayud?", imong tubag "ang ginoo gud ang creator sa tanan". Baya sad ka oy, Giunsa nimo pagkasayud anang imong gipamulong ba? dili kay magsumpay-sumpay kalang sa "series of assumptions".

Bueno, about "created being", it is already a topic beyond this thread. But i will give some notes:
Ang gitawag nga "artificial things" mao nay butang nga nagkinahanglan og magbubuhat, like relo, sing-sing, kwentas, etc
Ang gitawag nga "natural things" mao nay butang nga wala magkinahanglan og magbubuhat, like trees, air, water, clouds, etc. NGANO INGON MAN INI? Gumikan kay ang pulong "natural" nagpasabut man sa "system that works by itself". Unya'g "system that works by itself", naa dia magbubuhat ana? Huna-huna-a kuno na! GOOD NIGHT!

hahahaa, ikaw siguro ang dili makasabot sir kay tungod ana imong twisted nga pang huna2x... ug walay nagbuhat sa mga natural things as you said like trees, clouds, water and etc..diin man diay na gikan?

be tubaga sa kuno ko ana una ko mopadayon...

unya dili na series of assumption intawn oi...ITS A FACT nga tanan butang natural man o dili kay binuhat gyud na... dont tell me ni exist lng ta out of nothing?

how can we exist if we came from nothing? hahahaha

[Tattva]

guys the titlte is Freewill: absolute or not? diha nato i base atong discussion. Nag assumed na nga naa tay Freewil pero ang pangutana is, is it absolute or not.


para nako dili absolute, well actually depende kung unsay passabot anang absolute.

[SPIKE_CSA]

guys the titlte is Freewill: absolute or not? diha nato i base atong discussion. Nag assumed na nga naa tay Freewil pero ang pangutana is, is it absolute or not.


para nako dili absolute, well actually depende kung unsay passabot anang absolute.

for me the word absolute is

1. complete - ug sa bisaya pa bug'os, lubos

2. pure - lunsay, tunay, dalisay

3. certain - matuud, tino

4. unlimited - walay kutob or kinutoban

5. fixed - dili mabalhin

ug naay moy ikapuno pwede sad...

pero para nako it is absolute pero lng at the end we are accountable sa atong binuhatan...

why absolute? kay maski unsa man gyud natong buhaton pwede man gyud maski mang rape paka,mopatay ug tao, or maski unsa nimo nga ganahan buhaton makabuhat man gyud ka...

[Tattva]

for me the word absolute is

1. complete - ug sa bisaya pa bug'os, lubos

2. pure - lunsay, tunay, dalisay

3. certain - matuud, tino

4. unlimited - walay kutob or kinutoban

5. fixed - dili mabalhin

ug naay moy ikapuno pwede sad...

pero para nako it is absolute pero lng at the end we are accountable sa atong binuhatan...

why absolute? kay maski unsa man gyud natong buhaton pwede man gyud maski mang rape paka,mopatay ug tao, or maski unsa nimo nga ganahan buhaton makabuhat man gyud ka...

ok.


well Freewill is absolute, i mean of course we can do what we like to do but i think that in our exercise as we express this freewill there are limits set for us by a more competent figure and in that sense freewill is not absolute.

[SPIKE_CSA]

ok.


well Freewill is absolute, i mean of course we can do what we like to do but i think that in our exercise as we express this freewill there are limits set for us by a more competent figure and in that sense freewill is not absolute.

actually is there is no limit sir.. We can do what we want to do. But we can only exercise our absolute freewill in this life only...

[tripwire]

actually is there is no limit sir.. We can do what we want to do. But we can only exercise our absolute freewill in this life only...

Such as?