Rites of Brotherhood.

[LytSlpr]

ngano incomplete man?
sa balaod gani, if naa'y technical term nga broad/daghan ug meaning, i.state gyud specifically kung unsa nga meaning ang buot ipasabot aron klaro, and kung unsa ang nakabutang didto, adto ra pod kutob, dli na manglagpas.. hehe,

incomplete kay physical ra man. ikaw basa unya sabta. daghan loopholes even the police and lawmakers themselves admitted it. even your examples IS & SHOULD be considered hazing but proving this is difficult which goes down to my other point. Pledging is the catalyst for hazing. As long as there is pledging, hazing is difficult to eradicate.

aw da, basaha nya sabta.. hehe.

i meant the definition of hazing NOT that act. so dapat bawal gyud ang even ang non physical.

laws nga dli specific but in general? smart move gyud.. hehehe, saon..

let me rephrase, the anti-hazing law that they made SHOULD be very specific according to the GENERAL DEFINITION of hazing. that's what makes them idiots because it is incomplete and is full of loopholes. heck the "anti-hazing" policies in the colleges and universities in the U.S. have a more thorough and comprehensive coverage as well as corresponding penalties. GET IT NOW torney?

abi nko ang argument is ang Act.(nya dli ka ug technicality?)
Pro cge nlng.. hehe,
Ngano maabot man pod sa court? Naa'y namatay? It all goes down on liability..
Kaw na mismo nag.ingon willing victim, nya moreklamo?

maabot sa korte kung madakapan, just like what is in the news right now. not necessarily na'ay complainants because the police can file a case in physical hazing and the evidence is strong but for non-physical hazing, lisod i-prosecute bisan madakpa pa en flagrante delicto.

ngano? tanan ba kaso nga mo abot sa korte na'ay mamatay?

ngano ba lagi bisan willing ang victim di ba sila pwede i-prosecute kung madakpan? ang problema lagi sa physical, daghan evidence and there is a big chance it will prosper because of the bruises, wounds etc. ang sa non-physical, lisod i-prosecute basta wala'y complainants and witnesses especially diri sa pilipinas.

basaha lagi unya sabta..
kinahanglan man gyud naa'y scope ang balaod.. dont you think? hehe,
pareha ra gud na sa pinakasimple nga bawal ang mopatay.. if generalized, hasta ang mga sundaw nga mipatay, mapriso? mao nang naa'y scope ang balaod.. hehe,
its an inutile law gyud kay dli man sundon ug dli pod strictly enforced.. Pro sa imong giingon nga nkahibaw na mo ana, gsunod man kha ninyo? kung wla.. kamo ra pod nagpa.inutil ug samot.. hehe,

Kinahanglan lagi na'ay scope pero asa ra kutob? Mao bitaw inutile kay di kumpleto. So ang paddling, indian pass and other physical methods bawal sa balaod pero ang other forms of physical and psycho-emotional torture that will not leave a mark and will have no evidence DILI? the law against hazing should be ENCOMPASSING and the policies and penalties should be detailed and specific and of course be implemented. Mao to naglibog ka nga GENERAL & SPECIFIC. How can law enforcement implement a law full of loopholes?

it is a possibility that a law will not be followed, mao bitaw na'ay law and what and how will they enforce that law that is incomplete and difficult to prosecute?

the last time you checked, here in cebu have you heard of fratmen involved in hazing nga walay namatay nga na-preso? as far as ang mga dakpan nga ALLEGED members sa tau gamma phi nga nadakapan nga nag paddling, WALA! So you see, it is an inutile law. if the law is strong enough, then nanga-preso unta to sila kay kung di pa ma-problema ang mga police kay na-news gud ang nahitabo. pero unfortunately or fortunately, sa news ra gyud na kutob.



"Villa’s son Lenny was a neophyte of Aquila Legis, a fraternity in the Ateneo de Manila University Law School, who died after three days of bloody hazing rites in February 1991.

Lenny, a first year Ateneo student, died of serious physical injuries at the Chinese General Hospital where he was rushed.

Villa said they won the case in the lower court against 26 members of the Aquila Legis but it was overturned by the Court of Appeals. The case is now with the Supreme Court."



Even if this happened before the Anti-Hazing law, there is no difference because the current law on hazing is TOOTHLESS.

By the way my younger brother is a lawyer now and is a member of Aquila Legis. Do you really want to know why the case was overturned in the SA and WILL possibly be sustained in the SC aside from the inutile anti-hazing law? I don't think so... Being an idealistic and presumably an aspirant lawyer, you might not be able to handle the truth because it will hurt and the world is unfair. Well guess what? This is a sh!tty world!

Put down the textbook buddy and welcome to the real world. If you become an attorney someday maybe you can successfully prosecute people who are involved in physical or non-physical hazing with a dead victim or otherwise and I will personally congratulate you even if it means travelling back to the Philippines.

[JX]

incomplete kay physical ra man. ikaw basa unya sabta. daghan loopholes even the police and lawmakers themselves admitted it. even your examples IS & SHOULD be considered hazing but proving this is difficult which goes down to my other point. Pledging is the catalyst for hazing. As long as there is pledging, hazing is difficult to eradicate.

incomplete ba.. di man gni ma.uphold nga physical lang ang ibawal, mangita pa gyud ug dugang.. hehe.. then i guess, acceptable pa cguro ang result sa non-physical hazing than physical hazing.. And again, the Act is only regulating..

i meant the definition of hazing NOT that act. so dapat bawal gyud ang even ang non physical.

huh? ang definition diay ang makabawal? or the Act? hehe,

let me rephrase, the anti-hazing law that they made SHOULD be very specific according to the GENERAL DEFINITION of hazing. that's what makes them idiots because it is incomplete and is full of loopholes. heck the "anti-hazing" policies in the colleges and universities in the U.S. have a more thorough and comprehensive coverage as well as corresponding penalties. GET IT NOW torney?

Read: (diff. states = different hazing law)

NORTH DAKOTA HAZING LAW;

1. § 12.1-17-10. Hazing -- Penalty
1. A person is guilty of an offense when, in the course of another person's initiation into or affiliation with any organization, the person willfully engages in conduct that creates a substantial risk of physical injury to that other person or a third person. As used in this section, "conduct" means any treatment or forced physical activity that is likely to adversely affect the physical health or safety of that other person or a third person, or which subjects that other person or third person to extreme mental stress, and may include extended deprivation of sleep or rest or extended isolation, whipping, beating, branding, forced calisthenics, overexposure to the weather, and forced consumption of any food, liquor, beverage, drug, or other substance. The offense is a class A misdemeanor if the actor's conduct causes physical injury, otherwise the offense is a class B misdemeanor.

physical lng pod dba? nga mka.cause ug psychological harm.. unsa ma'y deperensya sa phils?

WASHINGTON HAZING LAW

As used in RCW 28B.10.901 and 28B.10.902, "hazing" includes any method of initiation into a student organization or living group, or any pastime or amusement engaged in with respect to such an organization or living group that causes, or is likely to cause, bodily danger or physical harm, or serious mental or emotional harm, to any student or other person attending a public or private institution of higher education or other postsecondary educational institution in this state. "Hazing" does not include customary athletic events or other similar contests or competitions.

§ 28B.10.901. Hazing prohibited -- Penalty

see? ang term is prohibited, dli regulated.. review the act lagi.. hehe.

maabot sa korte kung madakapan, just like what is in the news right now. not necessarily na'ay complainants because the police can file a case in physical hazing and the evidence is strong but for non-physical hazing, lisod i-prosecute bisan madakpa pa en flagrante delicto.

ngano dakpon man pod nga wla man gbwal ang non-physical? again, g.regulate lng ang hazing.. in the street pa man gni gbuhat ako example sa hazing, sharo wlay makabantay nga lawmaker unya gpabadlong ug pulis.. dba?

ngano? tanan ba kaso nga mo abot sa korte na'ay mamatay?

to your scenario pls..

ngano ba lagi bisan willing ang victim di ba sila pwede i-prosecute kung madakpan? ang problema lagi sa physical, daghan evidence and there is a big chance it will prosper because of the bruises, wounds etc. ang sa non-physical, lisod i-prosecute basta wala'y complainants and witnesses especially diri sa pilipinas.

ikaw ra may nag.ingon nga gbwal ang non -physical hazing.. i.review lagi ug tarong.. unsaon kha pag.prosecute.. hehe..

Kinahanglan lagi na'ay scope pero asa ra kutob? Mao bitaw inutile kay di kumpleto. So ang paddling, indian pass and other physical methods bawal sa balaod pero ang other forms of physical and psycho-emotional torture that will not leave a mark and will have no evidence DILI? the law against hazing should be ENCOMPASSING and the policies and penalties should be detailed and specific and of course be implemented. Mao to naglibog ka nga GENERAL & SPECIFIC. How can law enforcement implement a law full of loopholes?

inutile in the sense lagi nga dli ma.enforce strictly and also because of tradition nga mao dli masunod sa mga member sa frat.

it is a possibility that a law will not be followed, mao bitaw na'ay law and what and how will they enforce that law that is incomplete and difficult to prosecute?

review the Act or the law pra di ka mangutana.. hehe,

the last time you checked, here in cebu have you heard of fratmen involved in hazing nga walay namatay nga na-preso? as far as ang mga dakpan nga ALLEGED members sa tau gamma phi nga nadakapan nga nag paddling, WALA! So you see, it is an inutile law. if the law is strong enough, then nanga-preso unta to sila kay kung di pa ma-problema ang mga police kay na-news gud ang nahitabo. pero unfortunately or fortunately, sa news ra gyud na kutob.

Passing and Enforcing are two different things..

"Villa’s son Lenny was a neophyte of Aquila Legis, a fraternity in the Ateneo de Manila University Law School, who died after three days of bloody hazing rites in February 1991.
Lenny, a first year Ateneo student, died of serious physical injuries at the Chinese General Hospital where he was rushed.
Villa said they won the case in the lower court against 26 members of the Aquila Legis but it was overturned by the Court of Appeals. The case is now with the Supreme Court."

Even if this happened before the Anti-Hazing law, there is no difference because the current law on hazing is TOOTHLESS.

see? physical hazing ang nkapatay.. and most of all, naa'y namatay.. i dont see the relevance of the anti-hazing law and reckless imprudence resulting in homicide..

By the way my younger brother is a lawyer now and is a member of Aquila Legis. Do you really want to know why the case was overturned in the SA and WILL possibly be sustained in the SC aside from the inutile anti-hazing law? I don't think so... Being an idealistic and presumably an aspirant lawyer, you might not be able to handle the truth because it will hurt and the world is unfair. Well guess what? This is a sh!tty world!

im not an aspirant lawyer, but i do, do not wish to be an ignorant one about it.. thats why i read.. and if my interpretation is incorrect, im open for corrections, like from your bro.. hehehe,
But first, ask him bout the Act.. hehe,

Put down the textbook buddy and welcome to the real world. If you become an attorney someday maybe you can successfully prosecute people who are involved in physical or non-physical hazing with a dead victim or otherwise and I will personally congratulate you even if it means travelling back to the Philippines.

i have no textbooks here, im a virtual librarian.. hehe.. its fun learning..

[LytSlpr]

@JX:

Nagkatawa na nuon ko sa imong gipang cite sir, obviously you are a law text book junkie.

I salute you kay MAS ABUGADO pa ka sa tanan abugado nga ni graduate sa ADMU law school nga akong naka istorya. Excuse me for saying this but knowing them, they will laugh at your posts. Also bear in mind that though these "lawmakers" have a lawyer or a bunch of lawyers in their staff, the authors themselves are not necessarily lawyers and knowing our politicians, they just draft a law just for the heck of passing one even without thorough review, research and survey just simply to satisfy the public's clamor which during that time was Lenny Villa's death.

Again, the anti-hazing act in the Philippines is toothless and almost "un-enforecable" because it is full of loopholes because it is vague in definition, lacking in scope and it is not detailed and specific AS IT SHOULD BE.

Mao gani incomplete and inutile because they can only enforce the act if somebody actually dies because of hazed. What about kanang ni agi ug hazing nga way bun-og pero hapit mabuang? Does you so called act have stipulations for that?

And by the way you are defending the anti-hazing law and justifying your own reasons, it seems you know better than our country's topnotch lawyers who themselves that the anti-hazing act is almost toothless.

I am not dignifying this any more, the lay people understands what i am trying to say and that's enough for me. It is difficult to discuss with a pseudo-paralegal.

[JX]

@JX:

Nagkatawa na nuon ko sa imong gipang cite sir, obviously you are a law text book junkie.

text book ba? wa lagi ko bsan unsa nga law text book nga gbasa.. hehe.
If nagkatawa ka kay naa'y sense ako gpanulti.. uhmm.. ngano kha? hehe.
Gtagaan btaw tika ug 2 ka example sa hazing law sa US nga imong giingon maayo kaayo.. di man lagi ingon nindot kaayo?

I salute you kay MAS ABUGADO pa ka sa tanan abugado nga ni graduate sa ADMU law school nga akong naka istorya. Excuse me for saying this but knowing them, they will laugh at your posts. Also bear in mind that though these "lawmakers" have a lawyer or a bunch of lawyers in their staff, the authors themselves are not necessarily lawyers and knowing our politicians, they just draft a law just for the heck of passing one even without thorough review, research and survey just simply to satisfy the public's clamor which during that time was Lenny Villa's death.

aw thank you.. hehehe, naa man kha'y sense? hehe.
abi nako ingon ka idiots ang nag.pass sa Act? nga naa man diay kha na'y bunch of lawyers behind? lolz..

Again, the anti-hazing act in the Philippines is toothless and almost "un-enforecable" because it is full of loopholes because it is vague in definition, lacking in scope and it is not detailed and specific AS IT SHOULD BE.

if i may ask, unsa man nga loophole imo nakita sa Act? except sa psychological harm..
Pagsunod lng gani sa pagpananghid sa skwelahan days before ang hazing, di man gani mabuhat. Enforcement ang problema dli ang loopholes bec. vague in definition? lacking in scope? not detailed and specific as it should be..
Unenforcable gyud tungod kay dli magsulti/mananghid AS IT SHOULD BE, ang frat tungod kay buhi ghapon ang bunal2x/physical hazing.. Unsa may mawala kung mananghid? If wla na gyud nang physical hazing? hehehe.

Mao gani incomplete and inutile because they can only enforce the act if somebody actually dies because of hazed. What about kanang ni agi ug hazing nga way bun-og pero hapit mabuang? Does you so called act have stipulations for that?

Have you read the Act? Wla unta'y mamatay kung sundon lng. Naa ba diay mamatay kung naa'y magsupervise nga representative sa eskwelahan or representative sa leader sa fraternity? simple ra kaayo na.. igo ra mananghid kay aron mabantayan nga dli mosobra. di pod ganahan bantayan kay di ka.bunal?.. mao nay nka.toothful.. aw toothless diay.. hehe..
hapit mabuang? unsa man nga klase nga pagkabuang? If mao man gani nga hapit mabuang, i doubt it nga wlay violence nga nahitabo.

And by the way you are defending the anti-hazing law and justifying your own reasons, it seems you know better than our country's topnotch lawyers who themselves that the anti-hazing act is almost toothless.

top notch lawyers such as? right.. "almost" toothless.. hehehe.

I am not dignifying this any more, the lay people understands what i am trying to say and that's enough for me. It is difficult to discuss with a pseudo-paralegal.

also difficult with a pseudo-cognizant.. hehe..

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

@Springy

Domestic Violence and Hazing are not the same bananas BUT they have one thing in common: violence. Verbal/physical or psychological. Under domestic violence, the victims are commonly women committed by their spouses or common-law-husbands. While hazing are committed by fraternities, military and other organized groups against would-be members or mostly referred to as neophytes.

I dont have to be a MENSA member to know that it is not the same banana lols . I was only making a point basing the similarity of its ESSENCE and not its DEFINITION . That indeed HAZING is not only about PHYSICAL INJURY and DOMESTIC VIOLENCE is not only about PHYSICAL INJURY either .

You are also correct to say that verbal abuse (although not physical) are still considered violence.

Thus concludes the point that like HAZING , iut does not conform to the regulations being passed because it only specifies PHYSICAL INJURIES inflicted . Like LYTSLPR'S argument , kay abi ang na apektuhan kay EMOTIONAL and MENTAL ra man , dili ka makasuhan because dili man na siya PHYSICAL INJURY but REALITY CHECK ... that is HAZING .

Going back to HAZING - I don't think fraternities should dignify the practice. No matter how they say it, it is still ILLEGAL under the law. Public opinion no matter how IGNORANT fraternities the military or any group think of them it is still ILLEGAL and should not be condoned. Kung ang fraternities claim to be law abiding, ngano paman gyud buhaton? Kung tarong ka nga frat or organization, why not stop it or stop recruiting?

Walay ni ARGUE ana . Though it was once explained why it needs to be done being a part of the tradition , the moment it was made effective as a reulation , frats in the Philippines to include AKP and TGP followed and conformed with it . Again as what LYTSLPR said , kung naay nag HAZING .. ilaha pod to and it was NEVER an activitiy SANCTIONED by the governing body / council , elders , alumni's etc . Sila ( persons practicing hazing / guilty and caught in the act ) ra ang angay dakpon / silotan / i punish etc kay sila ang ni commit .

Fraternities or groups that practice it have done a great disservice to their oath or to the public.

Another MISLEADING STATEMENT . Indeed when we say GROUPS , dili nato majustify kung FRAT SANCTIONED na or GROUP ORIENTED ACTIVITY . I am only specifically saying those peple who still engaged with the TRADITION bisan ni exist na ang RA8049 .

[brownprose]

@ Springy

- "Similarity of its essence" you say? figure it out Springy...ur confused of ur definition and yes no Mensa needed to simplify or differentiate what they are and it only takes a grade school to figure this out easily. The essence of hazing is only hazing...hazing is not an essence of domestic violence. u stop beating around the bush.

- Springysays: "Another MISLEADING STATEMENT . Indeed when we say GROUPS , dili nato majustify kung FRAT SANCTIONED na or GROUP ORIENTED ACTIVITY . I am only specifically saying those peple who still engaged with the TRADITION bisan ni exist na ang RA8049 ."

I'm not saying all, but this is the usual alibi of frats or groups that conduct hazing to wash them of every atrocity they do to neophytes during hazing. If something bad happens to the neophyte, they say it's NOT SANCTIONED so the frat's or the group's @ss is saved. If the neophytes survive, they become their "brods." Despite the law, it's still happening today - as I have said, this is a great disservice to their oaths for which they should conduct themselves and to others. If you ask around, daghan fratmen moankon nga they went hazing though that was illegal.

If we were to void those fraternity memberships acquired out of hazing (which is illegal) sigurado gyud kong apil na ka ana.

How many fraternities/groups that are guilty of acquiring membership through hazing even if its not legal? You don't need to be educated to even know if this is a fact or fiction. Get real!

[botslob]

@brownprose

hehehe maau sab kag ponto bradix da murag taga mensa ka gyud tingali ka. btw, kabasa pod ko sa imong mga posts uban grabe kaau nimo pagkaexplain bradix. pwede ko ngutana bradix? 2 man to imo frats so ok ra nimo i-void if ever mahitabo na or naay balaod ana? hehehe. basin di tingali sugot imo mga brad ana or mga frat ana kay mahurot nya sila lol

[brownprose]

@brownprose

hehehe maau sab kag ponto bradix da murag taga mensa ka gyud tingali ka. btw, kabasa pod ko sa imong mga posts uban grabe kaau nimo pagkaexplain bradix. pwede ko ngutana bradix? 2 man to imo frats so ok ra nimo i-void if ever mahitabo na or naay balaod ana? hehehe. basin di tingali sugot imo mga brad ana or mga frat ana kay mahurot nya sila lol

Bro, dili ni kinahanglang ug bryt nga tao para kasabot ta aning hazing. I have to say that this is "no-brainer"an issue. You dont need to join a frat urself to know about hazing. I have to admit that I'm guilty of acquiring my memberships mostly because I passed the hazing (though they were illegal). I am guilty and I am not ashamed of admitting it.

About what you asked if I'm willing to void my frat affiliation given a law is passed not to recognize memberships acquired by hazing, i think i dont have a problem with that. I dont know the position of other fratmen here about this pero I'm sure a lot of them will object to it.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

- "Similarity of its essence" you say? figure it out Springy...ur confused of ur definition and yes no Mensa needed to simplify or differentiate what they are and it only takes a grade school to figure this out easily. The essence of hazing is only hazing...hazing is not an essence of domestic violence. u stop beating around the bush.

LOLS ... and why need to say it is nont the same banana ? Anyways if you read it again , the ESSENCE there is the EFFECTS which is PHYSICAL INJURIES . Not the defitinion , dont twist it , tuod lahi ang HAZINg and DV ... I am pointing it out that it doesnt stop there because from the beginning dili ako ang CONFUSED ug unsay HAZING and because there is PHYSICAL INJURIES involved , it all stops there . Clear na ?

I'm not saying all, but this is the usual alibi of frats or groups that conduct hazing to wash them of every atrocity they do to neophytes during hazing. If something bad happens to the neophyte, they say it's NOT SANCTIONED so the frat's or the group's @ss is saved. If the neophytes survive, they become their "brods." Despite the law, it's still happening today - as I have said, this is a great disservice to their oaths for which they should conduct themselves and to others. If you ask around, daghan fratmen moankon nga they went hazing though that was illegal.

Of course since when did HAZING became or was LEGAL ? For example kami sa US na ALUMNI ASSOCIATION namo , we dont conduct any business related to HAZING at all , ever . Pero just because some idiots decided to perform hazing makes us LIABLE ? We share the name as brothers and sisters right ? I dont think so .

If we were to void those fraternity memberships acquired out of hazing (which is illegal) sigurado gyud kong apil na ka ana.

Not necessarilly , I dont even know now how many new neo's acquired membership quarterly . Same goes to others as big as AKP as a local fraternity .

How many fraternities/groups that are guilty of acquiring membership through hazing even if its not legal? You don't need to be educated to even know if this is a fact or fiction. Get real!

LOLZ !! Of course , legal or illegal .... thats TRADITION . But because of the FATALITIES , a regulation was made and for some made sense that an alternative should be on the works that would still be " TRADITIONAL " . Indeed maski ang publiko na dili FRATMAN kahibalo ana because of what was PORTRAYED wether in the NEWS , SHOWBIZ or in HOLLYWOOD ... samot na ug MENSA ka noh ? Lolz !!

[brownprose]

@Springy

When you educate use proper terminologies. Karon gamit napod kag "essence" and "effects" you read your post ra gud. There is no hazing in DV and only in hazing does hazing exist. Violence is not an "essence" of DV and Hazing. You read both laws or at least try to understand the difference. Kanang palusot nimo nga effects are not essence of both DV and hazing - they are just plain results not essence. Essence and results are not the same bananas. get it? I-educate tika dodong: Ang Hazing kanang mosud kag frat or orgs while Domestic Violence (DV) wa man kay gisudlan frat ana dodong so walay hazing ni exist just violence. Violence as an after-effect or result is definitely NOT an essence of both terms. Clear na? Please avoid using terminologies that confuse yourself coz ur making it difficult to educate us taga Mensa ug mga tag Menzi LOLs