Discussion on the Christ Jesus.

[bongix]

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I don't share your view about the "oneness of GOD", Here's Doctrine 101 you might be interested:

Doctine 101. Triune GOD of the Bible is One GOD.

Trinity --- "There is only One GOD, but in the unity of the Godhead there are 3 eternal and co-equal Persons, the same in substance but distinct in subsistence" --- C.C. Ryrie

Have a nice day to all.

This is the doctrine im beleiving in. Agree with you bro!

[Mr.Ho_chia]

Jesus Speaks:
1 "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do."
2 "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
3 "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit":

Distinct in subsistence.

[Mr.Ho_chia]

munzter666 bai, you have a point regarding the soundness of certain statements. Causality has to be inviolate (that's why science can be relied on) but, his point maybe is the existence of an ultimate cause (an uncaused cause). For now, we can let the nature of things be because existence is.

I want to clarify a certain idea. First off, is there absolute proof that God cannot exist?

the burden of proof is on the affirmative. therefore it is you who will have to prove that your (and mine as well) GOD exist. Hehe.....

[Sinyalan]

exactly! JESUS is GOD the father himself. They are one as well as the Holy spirit. A layman's example is an egg that consists the white, the yoke, and the shell. They're different but they are one and they are called an egg.

As I said, these are one of the things that cant be conceived in our intellect. Everything seems vague. Unless you have the faith, we understand nothing. All we have to do is receive the LORD as our personal savior...that simple.

lol... the believer of one true god and yet jesus christ called on him to skip all that was laid on his life for... and so, he was conceived by a human being (mary)... that doesn't sound godly. One more thing brod, if you recite the lords prayer... would you still consider jesus christ the same as god or god himself?

EGG example: So your saying that you as a son of your father ARE the same? You're also the father and also a son of yourself? You must be mistaken here...

Can't be conceived in our intellect? Or you won't conceive it because it WAS a preconceived answer? I echoed M66's point... GOD DID IT.

[Sinyalan]

I want to clarify a certain idea. First off, is there absolute proof that God cannot exist?

question brod, is there absolute proof that god exist?

[geoseph]

question brod, is there absolute proof that god exist?

If I may suspend that answer, I'd like to show another point, which I believe is of a higher priority for now. My answer is personal to me, and crap to others. But, if I did answer that (regardless of soundness), it could be taken as taking sides, which would distract from the point I believe is currently more important.

There would be enough space for a later post on why believing in God is not so bad, and not believing in God also has a basis for it. Science is already starting to define spiritual intelligence. Maybe, that would produce the answers that could satisfy many.

The motive behind the question is not to convert anyone. I asked that to lead to a conclusion with the hope to end (or rather, minimize) the stereotyping of people based on their belief or affiliation. Both sides apparently have some adjectives to use towards the other side, directly stated or implied.

I had a few posts mentioning logic before. In summary, proof, disproof, and inconclusive are three different things. That is, the absence of proof in the not same as disproof. What may be critical is the criterion of proof and the definitions used. But, let's suspend these for now.

I'll define my terms first, per basic debate requirements, as taught to us back in college sa Philo 1 (this avoids the situation where both sides keeps debating but, both are correct diay, given their definitions).

Knowledge is what one has personally proven to one's self to be true. Belief is what one is convinced is true, short of proving it oneself (perhaps, by logic or by "trusting" the source). Faith is what your intuition tells you is true with or without the conscious logic to back it up (there will be enough space for another post regarding intuition).

Now, not all that science tells me is true, I can prove myself. This is not only bec. one can't but, one may not have the time or money to do so (add to that the lack of inclination to do so). What does one do about it? What many do, and that is to simply "trust" it to be true. What do I end up having? I have the belief it's true but, not the knowledge it is. I sure as heck don't want to prove that the bottom of the Pasig River is such and such. Let the marine biologists do that (I have been told, they do dive in).

Most of what we commonly call "knowledge," I define only as belief. The reason for this strict definition is bec. any so-called scientist can fake his or her findings (at least, initially) or come up with the wrong conclusion. The scientific community has had its share of errors (research the history of psychiatry, for example).

Therefore, by practical reality, science for the most part is a body of belief held by us (and some knowledge - thanks to school). If we define religion as a body of beliefs held by a person then, that would make science a religion to me like any other.

Now, I can't fault people for believing in God. They surely have their own reasons (in the English use of the word, not Philosophy). After all, they don't have to prove it (beliefs are not part of the domain of logic, only statements are). I also believe in God, and I have my own reasons.

However, if one can't absolutely prove God does not exist nor that God cannot possibly exist (again, this all depends on the definition of God and the criterion of proof) then, what one has is the belief that God does not exist.

Going back to the (limited) definition of religion as a body of beliefs held by a person (and perhaps, shared by others), this makes atheism another religion to me.

Now, if it's all a religion, what we are left is to respect each other's beliefs.

[Sinyalan]

Now, this is what I call brilliant post... way to go geoseph! But let me point out also that the question is to measure a personal thoughts about his/her beliefs. I respect people who are respectful to others... unlike those irritating people who are more discriminating and aggressive than useful. Beliefs should not be a commodity of boastfulness rather a product of acceptance... but I see more of these tackless people than humble.

Good to know that there is someone who is as an open-minded person who carries out his knowledge to the common man. Salamat geoseph.

[geoseph]

Now, this is what I call brilliant post... way to go geoseph! But let me point out also that the question is to measure a personal thoughts about his/her beliefs. I respect people who are respectful to others... unlike those irritating people who are more discriminating and aggressive than useful. Beliefs should not be a commodity of boastfulness rather a product of acceptance... but I see more of these tackless people than humble.

Good to know that there is someone who is as an open-minded person who carries out his knowledge to the common man. Salamat geoseph.

Thanks Sinyalan bai. I'm lost what to say.

.. But let me point out also that the question is to measure a personal thoughts about his/her beliefs...

I believe bec. I had a personal experience that I'm not sure I want to post in public.

[munzter666]

@geoseph

nice post.

I want to clarify a certain idea. First off, is there absolute proof that God cannot exist?

Depends on what you percieve as a god.

Though it is known that people tend to believe only on those that are specifically addressing their expectation or at the very least exceeds it but never those that contradicts their belief.

A better question would be, "Does my god exist?"hehehe

However, if one can't absolutely prove God does not exist nor that God cannot possibly exist (again, this all depends on the definition of God and the criterion of proof) then, what one has is the belief that God does not exist.

it's on a stalemate as the child mentioned on the other thread. as what most atheists say, you can't prove a negative. You can only say that the evidences for the existence of god are insufficient....as for now.

Going back to the (limited) definition of religion as a body of beliefs held by a person (and perhaps, shared by others), this makes atheism another religion to me.

atheism is the position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods or rejects theism. When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities. thats really all there is about atheism.

its not like, some atheists came around knocking door to door passing out pamphlets... next thing you know i was baptized with a curling iron. so now i've even joined the atheist choir at the local atheist church.hehehe (joking)

fyi, no one usually gets 'converted' to atheism or agnosticism.

[geoseph]

@geoseph

nice post.

Thanks munzter666 bai.

Depends on what you percieve as a god.

I agree.

It maybe true in general, that individual faith is influenced by one's personal understanding (or lack of it) of God. I believe it's not an issue if everybody respects each other. What I don't agree with is the attitude of "My God is better than yours." I'll respond to that with "Wala ka sa God ng lolo ko." ;D

Though it is known that people tend to believe only on those that are specifically addressing their expectation or at the very least exceeds it but never those that contradicts their belief.

I think that's also true to almost every area in life. Some persons are not that mature yet.

A better question would be, "Does my god exist?"hehehe

You have a point. I have a non-serious definition of 'god' - it's who or what one "worships" - gf/bf, car, one's self, and so on... =)

it's on a stalemate as the child mentioned on the other thread. as what most atheists say, you can't prove a negative. You can only say that the evidences for the existence of god are insufficient....as for now.

atheism is the position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods or rejects theism. When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities. thats really all there is about atheism.

Thanks.

its not like, some atheists came around knocking door to door passing out pamphlets... next thing you know i was baptized with a curling iron. so now i've even joined the atheist choir at the local atheist church.hehehe (joking)
fyi, no one usually gets 'converted' to atheism or agnosticism.

Hehehe. You're a humorous guy.

My high school buddy is atheist. He lives a life more honest and ethical than many persons of religion I have also known. That's why I don't agree equating atheists with "bad" people.