MERGED: All About OIL PRICE HIKE

[giddyboy]

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OT: springoy & ajol, para way lalis, here's what i found out:

(1) there are different types of octane ratings used in diff. parts of the world. there's the RON rating and there's also the MON rating.
the octane rating in NY is different from the octane rating used in the Phils. For example: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in the US and Canada, would be 91-92 in Europe. However most European pumps deliver 95 (RON) as "regular", equivalent to 90-91 US (R+M)/2, and even deliver 98 (RON) or 100 (RON).
The octane rating may also be a "trade name", with the actual figure being higher than the nominal rating.
BOTTOMLINE: the higher octane rating, the higher the price.

(2) higher octane rating doesnt mean more mileage. its all about the autoignition resistance, anti-knocking capacity, and activation energies.
Engines perform best when using fuel with the octane rating for which they were designed and any increase in performance by using a fuel with a different octane rating is minimal or even imaginary, unless there are carbon hotspots, fuel injector clogging or other conditions that may cause a lean situation that can cause knocking that are more common in high mileage vehicles, which would cause modern cars to retard timing thus leading to a loss of both responsiveness and fuel economy.

Still, this is not all, there is a lot to discuss about "OCTANE RATING". Pls. refer to this link nalang: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

AS FOR THE PRICES, you have to study and compare the logistics difference from source to distribution, how they're being transported, cost of transportation, who are the players, extent of gov't intervention, etc. etc....before you analyze why the gas price is higher in one place while its much cheaper in another place.

[pandisal]

correct... in the US alone, a regular gas price will cost $3.50 per gallon in one state while some other state will cost $2.90 only. In california, this price difference is seen even city to city, a big difference, its all about logistics and demand in supply. ;D

[rambutan]

well, hapit na mahuman ang panahon aning mga oil companies basta ma develop lang jud ug tarong ning Air Powered vehicles.. hahay.. maytag mulahutay ni nga technology...

re: air powered vehicles: https://www.istorya.net/forums/index....,160186.0.html

[ajol]

Why is it cheaper in NY or Singapore

When we all know the SALARIES of Petroleum workers in NY or Singapore are HIGHER compared to the Philippines.
You can't just tell it varies from country to country....
In terms of logistics and transportation again look at the Salary of the workers involve there. When you factor all of it... Its either WE ARE INEFFICIENT and WASTING A LOT of OIL to PRODUCE 1 liter of Gasoline or THERE IS OVERPRICING....

In Globalization. Competition is very important..... The best price wins...

[ajol]

The bottom line is :

- REGULAR GAS = fast burning
- HIGH OCTANE GAS = slow burning

Of the same amount of the said 2 kinds of GAS , which last's longer ?

OFFTOPIC :

What is a practical car ? What is practical people driving poractical cars ? What is practical people driving practical cars using practical gasoline ? Hehehe ....

Now its your turn to ask your mechanic when and why you should use that specific GAS for the vehicle you use .

Your question has been answered......

(2) higher octane rating doesnt mean more mileage. its all about the autoignition resistance, anti-knocking capacity, and activation energies.
Engines perform best when using fuel with the octane rating for which they were designed and any increase in performance by using a fuel with a different octane rating is minimal or even imaginary, unless there are carbon hotspots, fuel injector clogging or other conditions that may cause a lean situation that can cause knocking that are more common in high mileage vehicles, which would cause modern cars to retard timing thus leading to a loss of both responsiveness and fuel economy.

When I say Practical.... it means a basic car..... that needs basic fuel..... Octane ratings don't mean much. I still don't know why you keep insisting on it... ITS the ADDITIVE that is responsible for the OCTANE rating...... and if you LOOK at THE PRICE OF ADDITIVES..... The difference in price between the US and Philippines won't be that SIGNIFICANT...

I already showed the computation.... NY Regular Gasoline is cheaper than Petron REGULAR GASOLINE( which is 1-2 pesos/liter cheaper than unleaded)

ALSO DIESEL(Low Sulfu) in NY is cheaper than Petron DIESEL....

[giddyboy]

Why is it cheaper in NY or Singapore

When we all know the SALARIES of Petroleum workers in NY or Singapore are HIGHER compared to the Philippines.
You can't just tell it varies from country to country....
In terms of logistics and transportation again look at the Salary of the workers involve there. When you factor all of it... Its either WE ARE INEFFICIENT and WASTING A LOT of OIL to PRODUCE 1 liter of Gasoline or THERE IS OVERPRICING....

In Globalization. Competition is very important..... The best price wins...

pre, when u say overpricing, we should study it more in complete detail if indeed overpriced. Besides, we have the OIL PRICE WATCH here composed of private persons & companies that keep track of prices here, just like the CONSUMER PRICE WATCH. Ayaw ko ingna mga bogo kau ni cla.

IF ITS CHEAPER IN NY or SINGA, so what? Phils is not a port hub and we are composed of 7000+ islands that it takes more cost on transporting fuel by sea as compared to Singa w/c is only one island. Of course, it takes some percentage of efficiency out transporting from island to island but we don't have a choice right now. We don't also have oil pipelines to connect island to island yet.

To add injury, we are also affected w/ the alleged monopoly and oligopolies by the big 3.

This doesn't also mean the govt does not know this problem. They are trying to find ways to get oil more efficiently & competitively inorder to lessen cost and in the meantime, find more ways of generating energy by other means i.e. solar, wind, water, alternative fuels.

[giddyboy]

When I say Practical.... it means a basic car..... that needs basic fuel..... Octane ratings don't mean much. I still don't know why you keep insisting on it... ITS the ADDITIVE that is responsible for the OCTANE rating...... and if you LOOK at THE PRICE OF ADDITIVES..... The difference in price between the US and Philippines won't be that SIGNIFICANT...
I already showed the computation.... NY Regular Gasoline is cheaper than Petron REGULAR GASOLINE( which is 1-2 pesos/liter cheaper than unleaded)
ALSO DIESEL(Low Sulfu) in NY is cheaper than Petron DIESEL....

pre, u mistook me as springoy. c giddyboy ni bay..ang akoang gi-show was just a part of the description of the word "octane rating" taken from wikipedia. dili ni angay lalison bro...dili ang ADDITIVES ang gamiton pag compute sa octane rating.

"Octane number is the number which gives the percentage, by volume, of iso-octane in a mixture of iso-octane and normal heptane, that would have the same anti-knocking capacity as the fuel which is under consideration. For example, gasoline with the same knocking characteristics as a mixture of 90% iso-octane and 10% heptane would have an octane rating of 90."

"The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the Research Octane Number (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel in a test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing these results with those for mixtures of isooctane and n-heptane."

In the Phils., higher octane rating means higher price. Moreso if naa pa gyuy additives. Cars have its own designated fuel sab. If a car says unleaded regular gasoline, then ang itubil is unleaded reg gas.

And if u compare the price of fuel here in Cebu w/ the same octane rating "conversion" in the NY, is entirely a different matter. could be cheaper in NY, or more expensive...but this cannot justify if our fuel here is overpriced...
our oil sources differ...
our logistics and transportation differ...
our taxation differ...
our geography differ...
our demand & supply differ...
our oil players differ...
our economic structure differ...
our gov't system differ...

The only way to find out "overpricing" is thru extensive research and proper monitoring and no matter how we debate in istorya, we won't find out...unless backed up by concrete evidence...

[giddyboy]

On another viewpoint, here's something to read and talk about:

______________________________________________

AS I SEE IT
Why prices are high in Philippines

By Neal Cruz
Inquirer
Last updated 03:56am (Mla time) 07/18/2007

Why are prices of commodities in the Philippines so high, higher, in fact, than prices in our more affluent neighbors? The reason is the existence of monopolies, where one company controls the domestic market and dictates the prices of certain goods. Or oligopolies, where a number of corporations in the same industry connive with one another to control the market and fix prices among themselves.

Example: Prices of petroleum products are high because the market is controlled by foreign-owned oil companies that agree on the prices of their products. Congress tried to break the monopoly by passing a law decontrolling the downstream oil industry and allowing more players to come in so that free-market competition will force prices down. But while other countries which decontrolled their downstream oil industries allowed an indefinite transition period to give new players time to be able to compete, Congress gave a six-month transition period, which then President Fidel Ramos made worse by shortening further to one month.

So, what happened? While there are a number of new players, they are so puny in comparison to the Big 3 that they cannot compete, making decontrol a farce. That is why every now and then all the oil companies raise their prices almost at the same time and at the same rates.

[brownprose]

pre, when u say overpricing, we should study it more in complete detail if indeed overpriced. Besides, we have the OIL PRICE WATCH here composed of private persons & companies that keep track of prices here, just like the CONSUMER PRICE WATCH. Ayaw ko ingna mga bogo kau ni cla.

IF ITS CHEAPER IN NY or SINGA, so what? Phils is not a port hub and we are composed of 7000+ islands that it takes more cost on transporting fuel by sea as compared to Singa w/c is only one island. Of course, it takes some percentage of efficiency out transporting from island to island but we don't have a choice right now. We don't also have oil pipelines to connect island to island yet.

To add injury, we are also affected w/ monopoly and oligopolies by the big 3.

This doesn't also mean the govt does not know this problem. They are trying to find ways to get oil more efficiently & competitively inorder to lessen cost and in the meantime, find more ways of generating energy by other means i.e. solar, wind, water, alternative fuels.

Totally agree...as I have pointed out before, there are many stories behind the gas prices here. And what ajol says is just one part of the whole story but not conclusive enough to establish a prima facie evidence of price manipulation.

You are also right about the Consumer Price Watch headed by Joe Concepcion who always comes out the first to voice out against any unjust fuel adjustments but he hasn't come out yet.

If we think that we've deregulated the oil industry -- i tend not to believe quite so. Opening up the market to more players is just one part of the deregulation. The DOE still has regulatory powers to control or determine "reasonable" prices of energy. If one strongly thinks that our fuel prices is way above market levels, can easily forward their complaint to the Department.

[ajol]

pre, u mistook me as springoy. c giddyboy ni bay..ang akoang gi-show was just a part of the description of the word "octane rating" taken from wikipedia. dili ni angay lalison bro...dili ang ADDITIVES ang gamiton pag compute sa octane rating.

"Octane number is the number which gives the percentage, by volume, of iso-octane in a mixture of iso-octane and normal heptane, that would have the same anti-knocking capacity as the fuel which is under consideration. For example, gasoline with the same knocking characteristics as a mixture of 90% iso-octane and 10% heptane would have an octane rating of 90."

"The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the Research Octane Number (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel in a test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing these results with those for mixtures of isooctane and n-heptane."

In the Phils., higher octane rating means higher price. Moreso if naa pa gyuy additives. Cars have its own designated fuel sab. If a car says unleaded regular gasoline, then ang itubil is unleaded reg gas.

And if u compare the price of fuel here in Cebu w/ the same octane rating "conversion" in the NY, is entirely a different matter. could be cheaper in NY, or more expensive...but this cannot justify if our fuel here is overpriced...
our oil sources differ...
our logistics and transportation differ...
our taxation differ...
our geography differ...
our demand & supply differ...
our oil players differ...
our economic structure differ...
our gov't system differ...

The only way to find out "overpricing" is thru extensive research and proper monitoring and no matter how we debate in istorya, we won't find out...unless backed up by concrete evidence...

Additives increase the OCTANE.....

your Wiki Link even provided the list of ADDITIVES.... Benzene (which is now banned since it can cause cancer),Toulene(also banned for the same reasons). Ethanol is also an additive.

Gasoline have additives which can alter their OCTANE LEVELS.... So its the PRICE of the additive which will increase the price of the GASOLINE.