POV: Nisaka na tanan, pasalamat ta nga ang sweldo wala nisaka!

[masakiton]

It's all about cost of living and how you live your life...

Do better and adapt.

If gamayan mo sa inyo sweldo, then move to Manila, let's see kung nindot ba imo knabuhi with 400+ in Manila, pliti pa lng nimo daan round trip from work ngadto dakong paksit na imo 400..

dakong sakto... depende ra jud sa lifestyle sa taw

[kit_cebu]

mao ni gi-ingon, kung di ta mang-abroad, lisud asenso.......

[Saga]

wew.. this will be a long post..

I don't agree, because your argument is based on false premises. You make it sound like workers have no choice but to be workers, when in reality many workers rise to the top and become CEOs

Yes it is a possibility that workers can rise to be a CEO but it means he has to join the group. What I mean by that is that, they don't become a CEO overnight. They go to a process. First is they become the middle man. Being paid higher that the regular worker they become the manager for the CEo's. His tasks is to manage the worker to the companies benifit and if he proves his worth he might be accepted to the pack and in time might become the CEO.

It is also based on the very dangerous false presumption, that demanding and being given higher wages is automatically a win for the worker (I will explain later why this is wrong.)

Are you saying that it is okay for a company to demand more profit and gain every year from the workers but workers should not demand for higher pay.

If it's as simple as your story goes, why wouldn't everyone want to be Juan and make money out of other people's work?

So, basically you are saying that in the current model of our society the only way to become rich is to exploit other peoples lack of opportunity.

The reason is that everyone wants to be Juan, but most people have the mentality and intelligence of Pedro. It takes an intelligent, hard-working individual gifted with vision and luck to become a successful businessman, contrary to the presumption that he is merely a parasite,

So, are you saying that workers are dumb? You have to remember that the only advantage Juan has over Pedro is the money. With his money he was able to buy the bolo which is the tool for produciton. It was Pedro's knowledge and intellect that was utilize to make bbq stick out of bamboo. Juan own the toold for production but it was Pedro who used this tool to produce product that will become a profit. One good example of this is a programmer working as an employee of a software company. It is not the CEO who created that programs and software that was sold to the martket to earn profit. It was because of workers(programmers) working together to so that they can produce a product. What the CEO did was employ this programmers and provide them the tool but it was the knowledge and intellect of the individual programmer that utilized the tool to make it productive. In the end the CEO or the company owns the program/software created by the programmer.

the reality is most Juans are benevolent beings who bestow employment to people like Pedro who otherwise would be doing nothing but sitting on their *** wondering what to do or drinking all day and beating up their wife

This is scary. Are you saying that I will worhsip the CEO of the company I work because he provided me a job and because of that he is benevolent. Will he be a CEO if there is no worker. Business man and workers should work hand in hand. Businessman has the investment and the tool for production but it will be the worker with his knowledge and intellect that will use this tool to produce. If worker should thank business man, business man should thank workers also not act like benevolent gods.

Now I will explain why getting high wages is only a very temporary improvement in the life of a worker, with permanent risks to his wellbeing. When you receive a wage increase, it automatically increases the business risk of the investors/owners, this means the owners are much more likely to fire employees after a wage increase, and investors are much more likely to slow or halt investment when wages increase. It's simple, they are going to be paying more for more or less the same productivity, and that increases business risk. In other countries with minimum wage, they always match the wage to the productivity of the workers. If they are more productive, the wage goes up. It is not necessarily tied to inflation, but often is because inflation increases as a country becomes more productive.

Now, let's go back to Juan and Pedro. Through the skill of Pedro using the bolo he was able to make bbq stick and sell it to earn 100. Jaun deducted the 100 by 20 for return of investment. So, they have 80 net income for both of them. However, Juan gave only 1 to Pedro because he is so benevolent. Why cant they split the income to 40 each? Let's say for example the Cost of living in Juans and Pedros world is 3. The least that Juan can do is give Pedro 3, instead he gave him 1. Worker's are not asking the whole profit. They are asking ample wages so that they can live a better life. A healthier life for him and his family. Companies are always increasing their targeted profit and CEO's will celebrate because his company is gaining more compared to last year but his workers who worked hard that made this possible is getting the same.

In the Philippines however, wages are increased without regard to productivity, and as a result we have had massive high inflationary periods in the past and continue to suffer from relatively high inflation even today. This inflation erodes the buying power of everyone, workers included. The very thing you are complaining, the prices of goods going up, is ironically caused by the thing you are demanding, higher wages. As a result you enter into a vicious cycle where wages keep going up, but inflation in response, also spikes up higher and higher. This makes everyone poor, but the worse thing is it makes businessmen poor, and as much as that might make you happy to see businessmen suffer, know that in the end it is going to be the employees who will ultimately suffer the most as businesses collapse and employment opportunities dry up.

Let's go back to Juan and Pedro again and let's expand it a little bit. Let's say Pedro sold the BBQ stick 1 each. Now, if Pedro will ask an increase of pay to 3 from 1 does it mean that we have to raise the price of BBQ stick to 2 or 1.5 also. I think not. What will happen is that they will still earn 80 but this time Juan will only bring home 77 and this time Pedro will go home with 3.
The good thing about raising the pay of Pedro from 1 to 3 is that he now has more purchasing power. Which means that if they have neighbor Maria who is selling mango for 2, Pedro now can buy it and in return generating income for Maria. The more purchasing power the worker has the better for the economy of the society because the flow of money will be more fluid. If Pedro only has 1 then Maria wll be expecting less income because Pedro can not afford to buy the mango worth 2.

When I say we are the most expensive country in Asia to invest in, in terms of minimum wage, that has nothing to do with being paid the highest salary. It has to do with the wage commensurate to productivity and the price of goods. We are not poor because we are paid a small salary, we are poor because goods are extremely expensive due to explosive inflation both past and present. And funny enough, this inflation was caused by high minimum wages.

We are poor because most of our needs are imported even rice and the purchasing power of our currency is so low. With this of course products will be expensive in terms of our currency. That's why an increase in oil will directly affect us because oil is imported like most of our needs. We failed to utilize our own resources thus failed we failed to become self sufficient as much as possible. We are supposed to be an agricultural country but we failed to exploit that and in the end we are even importing rice from Vietnam or other countries.

If you still fail to put two and two together, do you ever wonder why a country like Singapore which was 10x poorer than the Philippines is in the 1960's is now one of the richest countries in Asia despite not having a minimum wage for most of its history?

So are we saying the less the pay the worker has the richer the country is? So are we expecting to become one of the richest country. Let's say for example that Singaporean worker still has wages below the minimum wage. May I ask what is their minimum wage? If their minimum wage is the Cost of living in their country then thier worker is still living in a better condition than ours because the minimum wage here in our country is way below the cost of living. For example in Cebu, I believe that the minimum wage is 200+ and the cost of living is 500+ and some of the workers are earning below the minimum wage which is already too far from the cost of living.

Moral of your story that you missed is this: If Juan wasn't around, what would Pedro have done? He wouldn't have come up with the idea on his own, since he clearly lacks intelligence and vision needed to make a business enterprise succeed... without Juan, Pedro would have surely starved to death and in the same manner, a country without businessmen will slowly starve to death. If you don't believe me, go to North Korea and see for yourself

A businessman without workers will slowly starve also. By the way, i don't think the statement "a country without a businessmen will slowly starve to death" is right in a sese that the conflict is not between businessmen and country but businessmen and workers. For each model of a society there is always an internal conflict. Like in premitive commmunal times, the conflict is between men and nature and on the feudla time the conflict is between land lords and farmers and for capitalist era is capitalist and workers but this is another topic.

the moral of the story of Juan and Pedro is that, Juan was able to exploit the lack of opportunity of Pedro because Juan owned the tool for production (bolo/sundang/gabas). If Pedro had the tool for production he would have freed himself from Juans exploitation. Sadly Pedro was paid only enough to survive that he can't buy a bolo and the bamboo for himself to start his own.

It is because few owns the tool for production that they are able to exploit those who don't have them which is most of us.

OT: Regarding the prostitute comparison, I think you're wrong here as well. Most prostitutes are either self-employed or they are in partnership with their bugaw. You might look down on prostitutes but many of them earn more in a day than most ordinary workers earn in a month. =P

I didnt look down at them. And yes you are correct some of them earn more compared to some workers. Some workers are living worse than a prostitute.

[masakiton]

dili gobyerno ato basalon kung ngano wala or gamay ra ang salary increase... company matters na siya.. adto complain sa HR or pangita lain trabaho

ang sayop sa gobyerno kai dili kaayo sila mo focus sa pag hatag ug good quality nga education aron mao ang puhonan sa mga empleyado para sa pag trabaho ug sa pag asenso

[*sludge*]

pwede kha ibanan sa gubyerno ang mga buhis nato nga ikaltas sa atong sweldo? dako raba kaau ug

kaltas hilabi na nka delcare ka na "head of the family" ka.... mao raman gihapon istoryaa mas nanobra

pa ang nakawat sa atong mga buwis kaysa mga nibalik nato (pina agi sa serbisyo sa gubyerno)

[robedencia]

bahala mahal ang palitonon basta ang sweldo dako ka ayo

[*sludge*]

minimum wage here in cebu is 285 in manila 400+, so the solution is to move to manila though cost of living in cebu is not that high compare to Manila.

aguy, wa rbay pungko2x sa manila jolli jeep ray naa pero mahal ghapon

[Saga]

aguy, wa rbay pungko2x sa manila jolli jeep ray naa pero mahal ghapon

unsa ng jolli jeep?

[*sludge*]

^^ jolly jeep bradier kana ba jeep nga gi himo ug kan anan, imagina lng ng burger machine..ingon ana ug porma, jeep lng siya...barog2x sad tawag nmo ana usahay kay wa manay lingkoranan sa uban..value meal tag 50 petot usa ka sud-an ug usa ka rice...

[FranZeno]

wew.. this will be a long post..



Yes it is a possibility that workers can rise to be a CEO but it means he has to join the group. What I mean by that is that, they don't become a CEO overnight. They go to a process. First is they become the middle man. Being paid higher that the regular worker they become the manager for the CEo's. His tasks is to manage the worker to the companies benifit and if he proves his worth he might be accepted to the pack and in time might become the CEO.




Are you saying that it is okay for a company to demand more profit and gain every year from the workers but workers should not demand for higher pay.



So, basically you are saying that in the current model of our society the only way to become rich is to exploit other peoples lack of opportunity.



So, are you saying that workers are dumb? You have to remember that the only advantage Juan has over Pedro is the money. With his money he was able to buy the bolo which is the tool for produciton. It was Pedro's knowledge and intellect that was utilize to make bbq stick out of bamboo. Juan own the toold for production but it was Pedro who used this tool to produce product that will become a profit. One good example of this is a programmer working as an employee of a software company. It is not the CEO who created that programs and software that was sold to the martket to earn profit. It was because of workers(programmers) working together to so that they can produce a product. What the CEO did was employ this programmers and provide them the tool but it was the knowledge and intellect of the individual programmer that utilized the tool to make it productive. In the end the CEO or the company owns the program/software created by the programmer.



This is scary. Are you saying that I will worhsip the CEO of the company I work because he provided me a job and because of that he is benevolent. Will he be a CEO if there is no worker. Business man and workers should work hand in hand. Businessman has the investment and the tool for production but it will be the worker with his knowledge and intellect that will use this tool to produce. If worker should thank business man, business man should thank workers also not act like benevolent gods.



Now, let's go back to Juan and Pedro. Through the skill of Pedro using the bolo he was able to make bbq stick and sell it to earn 100. Jaun deducted the 100 by 20 for return of investment. So, they have 80 net income for both of them. However, Juan gave only 1 to Pedro because he is so benevolent. Why cant they split the income to 40 each? Let's say for example the Cost of living in Juans and Pedros world is 3. The least that Juan can do is give Pedro 3, instead he gave him 1. Worker's are not asking the whole profit. They are asking ample wages so that they can live a better life. A healthier life for him and his family. Companies are always increasing their targeted profit and CEO's will celebrate because his company is gaining more compared to last year but his workers who worked hard that made this possible is getting the same.



Let's go back to Juan and Pedro again and let's expand it a little bit. Let's say Pedro sold the BBQ stick 1 each. Now, if Pedro will ask an increase of pay to 3 from 1 does it mean that we have to raise the price of BBQ stick to 2 or 1.5 also. I think not. What will happen is that they will still earn 80 but this time Juan will only bring home 77 and this time Pedro will go home with 3.
The good thing about raising the pay of Pedro from 1 to 3 is that he now has more purchasing power. Which means that if they have neighbor Maria who is selling mango for 2, Pedro now can buy it and in return generating income for Maria. The more purchasing power the worker has the better for the economy of the society because the flow of money will be more fluid. If Pedro only has 1 then Maria wll be expecting less income because Pedro can not afford to buy the mango worth 2.




We are poor because most of our needs are imported even rice and the purchasing power of our currency is so low. With this of course products will be expensive in terms of our currency. That's why an increase in oil will directly affect us because oil is imported like most of our needs. We failed to utilize our own resources thus failed we failed to become self sufficient as much as possible. We are supposed to be an agricultural country but we failed to exploit that and in the end we are even importing rice from Vietnam or other countries.



So are we saying the less the pay the worker has the richer the country is? So are we expecting to become one of the richest country. Let's say for example that Singaporean worker still has wages below the minimum wage. May I ask what is their minimum wage? If their minimum wage is the Cost of living in their country then thier worker is still living in a better condition than ours because the minimum wage here in our country is way below the cost of living. For example in Cebu, I believe that the minimum wage is 200+ and the cost of living is 500+ and some of the workers are earning below the minimum wage which is already too far from the cost of living.



A businessman without workers will slowly starve also. By the way, i don't think the statement "a country without a businessmen will slowly starve to death" is right in a sese that the conflict is not between businessmen and country but businessmen and workers. For each model of a society there is always an internal conflict. Like in premitive commmunal times, the conflict is between men and nature and on the feudla time the conflict is between land lords and farmers and for capitalist era is capitalist and workers but this is another topic.

the moral of the story of Juan and Pedro is that, Juan was able to exploit the lack of opportunity of Pedro because Juan owned the tool for production (bolo/sundang/gabas). If Pedro had the tool for production he would have freed himself from Juans exploitation. Sadly Pedro was paid only enough to survive that he can't buy a bolo and the bamboo for himself to start his own.

It is because few owns the tool for production that they are able to exploit those who don't have them which is most of us.



I didnt look down at them. And yes you are correct some of them earn more compared to some workers. Some workers are living worse than a prostitute.

nice..daghan sd tag m.learn ani dah