If someone ask you "Luwas na ba ka?", whats ur answer?

[nemmo723]

---

why should i stop sir? that's how i view it--- free for all men.... sa ato pa imong gusto ako tumanun sir? ai ai ai.....
you are presenting me the true meaning of words..... mao ba sir? thanks for the effort of "presenting the true meaning of words"... but you know what sir, contrary to what you think i know how it meant...... maybe you need to listen sometimes sir kay as you have said you could be wrong too.
Makatawa man ko sir oi, ako na nuon ga twist? hehe, and you feel i'am out here twisting words and understanding of it and you are here to defend the weak against me? by your very word, what was that again you said sir?

"i aim to dispel the shroud that these so-called religions keep on displaying" a shroud? a deception to cover something, hehe.... i see, i like your style sir. and i know its not personalan just a dialogue, i understand that.

but on the contrary, i would say i am here to expose a sham alternative. --- no offense meant sir ha, just part of our dialogue lang...

well i will be watching........

that's okay, mr. ho. i dont take offense in your words. after all, you have no basis man pud for exposing such sham. what's ur basis man? null. its up to you also if you wish to continue calling it "free salvation for all men", i will still keep on telling that its NOT "free salvation for all men". imo man gud gitake personally, na i didn't attack you man. i said, if you want to twist your view of reality, then go ahead. i never said na gitwist nimo ang reality sa uban tao. and all this religion hoopla is really a big shroud. so many decorations covering the real essence of what the founders of these religion really aims to bring about.

i have no desire to defend the weak against you. like i said, u misinterpret my post, i never attacked you. ayaw ipersonalan mr. ho. stick to the dialogue/discussion. be objective lng. wa ko nag-ingon na tumanon nimo akong gisulti. i said its really up to you. i merely suggest that you ought to stop calling it free salvation for all men.. coz the meaning of free is not reflected in this "free salvation for all men". naa ra na nimo kung musunod ka sa suggestion or dili.

I don't have anything against those people. I was just merely saying that it could be their source of security in their life. what is so wrong about it? and if they are not contended and aspire for more inorder to be more secure, what is so wrong saying it out? its not like it is a secret, everybody knows that already sir....

what is wrong, mr. ho, is gi-predestine naman gud nimo na people who are secure about their lives kay dili jud macontented and aspire for more in order to be more secure. dats not security, that's an irony. that is your bias ra man. not everybody knows or thinks like that. ive met people who hold immense power and positions in this life and they are quite content with their place in this universe. ikaw ra man ga-assume na dili sila contento. why do you assume that? maybe imo siguro na na characteristic... we don't know.. aminin.. hehehe

mao ba sir ako rana? well maybe you are one of the elusive exemption.
a product of a selfish soul? (i know this is not personalan only part of our dialogue)
well sir not at all, as i have said my security in life is nothing of value to you, and to me it is the only valuable security i have and will ever desire for, the security knowing that the Almighty GOD holds my and my family's future.

yeah.. maybe ako ra ni mr. ho. who knows really. im an optimistic person. i try my best to see the good in every person i meet, including you. hehehe.. its very difficult lately. hahaha. bitaw.. but i guess ur not too optimistic about ur fellow men. as for ur security, i wouldn't dream of snatching it away from you though. so cling to it for as long as your life will allow, ignorance is bliss they say..

[mr.ho_chia2]

nope i don't take it personally sir, it's just that i don't believe in your views, and i will always be here to see to it that you will not twist my words nor to what you perceived as me twisting reality, its quite ironic that i actually see you as the one twisting things to support your call, but again ako man pud na perspective, so tabla ra.
about religions to be a big shroud, well you have a point there, but i guess not all fit your description and for you to generalized it, to me is unfair and self proclamation of something above all these, mura wala manta karapatan ana sir, kay as you have said maski ikaw is capable of mistakes and not all the comes out from your mouth could be the ultimate truth dba? so i suggest you don't go around telling people how wrong they are and how right you are when in fact you don't even have the absolute resolution to all these, dli ni personalan sir ha, i am just suggesting. and i also heard what you have suggested to me to stop on calling it a free gift of salvation, i heard you sir, but i reject it as you have said wala ka gaingon nga ako tumanun, so karun palang ako ka gi-ingnan nga wato nako dawata nga idea, kay to me it is a free gift of salvation that i voluntarily accepted. it's free kay i didn't have to pay for it, the LORD did for me.

about contentment sir, its a gneralization of a human nature, maski ikaw kabalo ka sa ako gpasabot, maski ako, sauna lipay nakaayo ko sa ako 5110 but karon i would love to have that iphone, sa imong old laptop which you bought very expensive that time, dba you wanted something new now? its the same sa tanang bagay basta human nature ang istoryahan sir, the unquenchable desire for more. maski kanang imo mga kaila sir nga imo gpanulti they are also humans. ingana rana ka simple sir gud, dili na knahanglan nimo explikahan pa, it is common knowledge sir.

ow boy, i am optimistic with regards to my fellow men sir, but what i am saying that i think you missed big time is our nature as humans in which i have talked about na.

i hope you can really snatched my security in GOD, and i wish for you to really try harder and show them what you've got. for the wise see wisdom in all these only the fool will see ignorance..... Have a nice day sir

[nemmo723]

nope i don't take it personally sir, it's just that i don't believe in your views, and i will always be here to see to it that you will not twist my words nor to what you perceived as me twisting reality, its quite ironic that i actually see you as the one twisting things to support your call, but again ako man pud na perspective, so tabla ra.

ahh, dili man na tabla mr. ho. like i said, u have no objective basis for your claims. the claims i posted is not of my own, they are from an objective basis. u take it personally, because you put up your own subjective view naman. wala man koy subjectivity ani. mao na dili ta tabla. its up to u really, nobody's forcing you to leave ur subjective view. many people cling to their subjectivity coz it makes them happy no matter how foolish it is from the objective point of view.

about religions to be a big shroud, well you have a point there, but i guess not all fit your description and for you to generalized it, to me is unfair and self proclamation of something above all these, mura wala manta karapatan ana sir, kay as you have said maski ikaw is capable of mistakes and not all the comes out from your mouth could be the ultimate truth dba? so i suggest you don't go around telling people how wrong they are and how right you are when in fact you don't even have the absolute resolution to all these, dli ni personalan sir ha, i am just suggesting. and i also heard what you have suggested to me to stop on calling it a free gift of salvation, i heard you sir, but i reject it as you have said wala ka gaingon nga ako tumanun, so karun palang ako ka gi-ingnan nga wato nako dawata nga idea, kay to me it is a free gift of salvation that i voluntarily accepted. it's free kay i didn't have to pay for it, the LORD did for me.

yeah, i make mistakes, and i am bound to admit them when i do. the ultimate truth does not come from me, i am just a messenger. if you cant believe in the message, don't attack the messenger. i haven't told it personally that people are wrong, i just point out the discrepancies in their beliefs. those are two very different things. and i dont say that directly pa jud, i just present what the truth is, and the rest is up to them to figure out. imong suggestion mr. ho, kay reeks with anger and defense mechanism, exactly what AC talked about. suggest diha kung unsa imong suggestion, pero ang basis sa imong suggestion kay personalan ra man gihapon. naa ka objective basis sa imong suggestion? none. i never said i have the absolute resolution of all these so dont put words in my mouth.. keep to the discussion, personalan na man na imo gud.., i do know some things to be true and i have presented those some things here. as for ur free salvation, like i said, u can choose to continue calling it free, but i wont stop from still calling its NOT FREE either. i let you be, so please please please, pretty please... let me be also. in the long run, this charade will only turn out the truth. and the truth of the matter lies in the real meaning of the words. so don't take it personally, to prevent urself from attacking me. gipang-deflect na ko na tanan imong attacks mr. ho.

about contentment sir, its a gneralization of a human nature, maski ikaw kabalo ka sa ako gpasabot, maski ako, sauna lipay nakaayo ko sa ako 5110 but karon i would love to have that iphone, sa imong old laptop which you bought very expensive that time, dba you wanted something new now? its the same sa tanang bagay basta human nature ang istoryahan sir, the unquenchable desire for more. maski kanang imo mga kaila sir nga imo gpanulti they are also humans. ingana rana ka simple sir gud, dili na knahanglan nimo explikahan pa, it is common knowledge sir.

and so masmaayo pa na kung contento ta with the "ultimate security", dili na lng ta muaspire for a new phone or a new laptop kung mugawas ang bag-o na model? maypa mag-amish na lng ka mr. ho. dey are a very backward group of people, somewhat technophobic and never improving on their society in terms of technology. hangtud karon, mag-horse carriage pa gihapon na sila. ang natural tendency sa man is to continually improve himself, because we are always evolving. its not bad to better one'self, but its a goal to make life better. kung contento na ka sa tambal na maka-ayo ug sakit in 1 year, so dili na lng ka mupalit ug tambal na makaayu ug the same sakit in less than a week unya naa pa jud additional defensive nutrients to help battle future sickness? well, its ur life. ur generalization of human nature is dark and ominous. i think that displays well how pessimistic u are of fellow humans. mao gud na imong foundation belief about human nature. i bet you are against scientist who usher new technology for the betterment of mankind. against ka sa ... say cloning? or sa genetic modification pud noh? technology is a tool to be used, its up to the person using it. we look at the same characteristic, about wanting to improve better than before, but we understand it differently. u understand it as an unquenchable thirst for security, i view it as a continuous growing of the human soul. like i said, i have met people who are in great positions of power, pero they sleep soundly at night, they are not greedy as you might presume them to be, they are not 'evil' or lack meaning in their lives either.

ow boy, i am optimistic with regards to my fellow men sir, but what i am saying that i think you missed big time is our nature as humans in which i have talked about na.

i hope you can really snatched my security in GOD, and i wish for you to really try harder and show them what you've got. for the wise see wisdom in all these only the fool will see ignorance..... Have a nice day sir

i see what you understand in human nature mr. ho. i dont think i missed any of it. come to think of it, i think i figured out what kind of christian you are na. you are a very devout baptist. (but i may be wrong, and if i am, i will admit my mistake in guessing..) however, i have no desire to snatch ur security in ur God.. i have nothing to prove to anybody here. i wish to maintain my peace within me. have a nice day too, mr. ho.

[shimiyu]

if your belief that God precedes these needs, what's the purpose of existing within the human sphere (in relation to God)? the answer--none....... however, since we are in this human world, with a human society, how else are we going to go about our lives..? interdependence.

Ah, but we are forgetting about that aspect of a Godly relationship which involves people!

J.P. Holdings makes reference to scholars Malina and Neyrey in Portraits of Paul1, who noted that the Jewish concept of the word agapao, aside from being a total devotion to and love for God, carries with it the value of "group attachment and bonding", which translates to actions doing the "utmost good for the group". Jewish/Semitic society (including Arabs & Egyptians) was essentially a group-based community, in contrast with our individualistic 20th century lifestyles.

So, even at the socio-cultural level na mismo (we haven't delved into theology yet), the right relationship with God entails interdependence with people, so much so that if we do not exhibit goods deeds towards fellow men, it leaves our faith in question.

Hence, no wonder John the Apostle shouts back at his letters: "If anyone does not love his brother, he is a liar; whoever loves God must also love his brother." We now understand that his statements carry more than a theological influence, in fact, they have socio-cultural impressions in the first place.

Consequently, at this junction, I suppose it is safe to conclude that the Christian worldview/Godly relationship promotes interdependence, I might say, on a more profound scale.

Last na ning theology nako. he he

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1 Tektonics Ministries - http://www.tektonics.org/whatis/whatlove.html

[mr.ho_chia2]

Call it whatever you wish sir. If by your view i have no objective basis then it will remain to be your view, i see it differently though. I may say that actually it is you who have very subjective perception and thus a personal concept of what should have been something independent and objectively asserting to what the Bible is saying. It's hard to breakthrough with a made up mind. as always it is futile, my truth is foolishness to you, while your objectivity is sham alternative to me. well, that's life.

thank you for admitting that you are as fallible as anyone else, and thank you for admitting as well that the ultimate truth does not come from you. but oopppsss.... your the messenger of the absolute truth? naman sir.... personalan na yan ah....... well, maybe to you --- you are but frankly speaking mura wala man cguro ghapon ka karapatan to say that of yourself dba sir? ako lang pud na objective view sir ha dili ni personalan.

if you see discrepancies in what people believe in, you think yours has none? flawless spotless into perfection? naman sir......... that's why i was saying sa una pa we need to examine ourselves, kay maybe we are just to engrossed with what we know that sometimes we fail to see our own short comings ba.

ako sir wala objectivity, ikaw lang? hehe, wa sab ko kabalo ana, your suggestions are very objective is that it sir? naman...... putting words to your mouth, i dare not sir. ikaw raman ana sir oi, that's your forte i observe.

and please sir, ngano i-attack man tika sir oi, maybe you are just feeling it because you feel that your words has to be heard and accepted. well sir, i did hear you well but to me those words are nothing of substance that can convince me from following it, I have nothing against you, i just don't accept what your stand. simple as that. so please don't force me, and let me be sa ako belief, i don't intend as well to convince you to heed to my words.

exactly what i am saying it is our nature to go for further advancement, mao pud na ato worldly securities, sa una ang 1 million is security enough but at this day and age 10 million could still be "kulang". exactly my point sir, that by human nature we have the desire to aspire for more, maski gani naanatay brand new CRV maganahan manta after a year to have an expedition napud. I t doesn't really have to be that backward. within this shpere of time human needs becomes more complicated by the moves.

again those are unfair accusations based purely on assumptions with the intent to separate and uplift oneself. well, there are egoistic people, who need to feed their egos by making false witness at the expense of others. i really doubt if you are truly optimistic by the very ploy you do, sad to say it isn't optimistic at all sir. i am just frank with my views i hope you will not take it against me as i don't take those things you say against you as well.
and i am thankful to the scientist who day by day work to make our lives even better while on earth sir. nothing against them as you were insinuating. I am not talking about greed as well sir, i am saying that by our very nature we always wanted more, is that how you interpret it sir? greed? i suggest you open your mind a little more lang, it doesn't automatically point it to that direction.

the context of our discussion is all about security security in GOD and security in what the world will and can offer. Security in GOD is absolute, nothing more we need.
while security of what the world gives is relative to our needs, our status, and our wants as well. as our need increases that security increases as well the same true with the others. would that mean greed automatically? well not at all, not evil as well and definitely they too can sleep better probably than me.i hope you now understand that sir.

haha, i wish i am a baptist, i don't object to their teaching about salvation and their belief in GOD. but more than the Baptist i believe in the pouring of the Holy Spirit of God to the human race. I as well believe in divine miracle healings.......... i wonder if Baptist do believe in that as well? but that is not important anymore. they are still my brothers and sister in Christ, i have high regards to the Baptist Church. keep on guessing you are closer.

Thanks Nemmo for hearing me, i hope i have not offended you with my strong words sometimes, more so if you feel it is very personal attack to you. sir, it is not, this is just a discussion, arguments may arise, no intention to hurt only to stress a point.

I surely wish your peace in you to remain. God bless and good day once again sir.

[munzter666]

Sounds insecure to me. Sounds like emotional blackmail. Kneel and worship me and I'll give you what you want.

some thoughts from another forum: the psychology of a believer

Many 'believers' are people with inner weaknesses who find it hard to function properly in the world without the psychological crutch of a god and/or religion. They cling to their patently (false) beliefs because it seems to help them deal with the world around them (at the cost of not facing the truth).

To illustrate, for those who are born poor or ugly or dumb or without social skills, some of them will find it intolerable to see a world where beauty, wealth, intelligence, etc... are possessed by others but where they feel they did not get their fair share.

No one is 'perfect', but some are clearly much worse off than others and to them the existence of a divine, all-powerful (and most importantly, invisible) 'arbiter of all' serves as an equalizer that seems to render the gap between a have-not and a have 'irrelevant'.

Such insecurities are a very powerful incentive for the dimmer bulbs among us to believe in absurdities like "mansions and roads in heaven paved with gold" (Jesus Christ was laying it on really thick that time :chuckle: ), "72 virgins in paradise waiting for you", etc... and definitely do their share to reinforce belief in otherwise ridiculous religious propositions. This born-again belief of being 'reincarnated in a perfect body', for example, is such a powerful and seductive promise that many of us would gladly believe in it no matter how absurd its other accompanying beliefs are.

The 'believer' thinks: "So-and-so may be rich and have a beautiful gf/bf but in 'god's eyes' the two of us are no different and my 'devotion to god (no matter how fictitious he may actually be)' in fact makes me more important in this ultrasupreme being's (compared to whom all our differences count for nothing) eyes than so-and-so and I will get my just rewards in heaven when this all-powerful judge of the universe gives me what I rightfully deserve and witholds it from this other person (that he/she envies). Heck if he/she gets thrown to hell then so much the better!.

Devotion to an all-powerful being (lying outside of human influence) is often a defense mechanism to make up for one's perceived inferiorities and lack of standing within the human sphere.

One thing to realize about this dynamic is that its manifestation can be extremely complex. What starts out as an attempt to override ones insecurities turns into an elaborate self-imposed charade of one impossible belief piled up on another. Because this charade or illusion can hardly be sustained if only one person believes it, now comes the desire to spread it. The deluded cannot expect to take himself seriously if other people do not, hence the urge to propagate the delusions. Because all of us are plagued with insecurities, these "defense mechanisms" (irrational religious ideas) do often successfully take root in varying degrees in other people.

The deluded cannot expect to take himself seriously if other people do not, hence the urge to propagate the delusions
this is where the feathers start flying...

@mr ho

after reading your posts(and remembering some from other threads) you'd make a clear example of what AC is talking about.

the same way with salvation. others see it as free gift of salvation and others see it as not free at all kay matod pa naay condition. then it is their personal belief, bias, idiosyncrasy if you may call it that makes it not free...... but should we who have experience it believe them? not so........

Such insecurities are a very powerful incentive for the dimmer bulbs among us to believe in absurdities from AC.hehehe

i'll share some similar thoughts as well:The Psychology Hidden Behind Christianity

"When You Can’t Handle The Truth"

We investigated how and why religious beliefs have been passed on from parent to child for centuries. Parents unwittingly continue this tradition through a repeated process of mental conditioning that sharply influences the child to think along a certain path about their religion from a very mentally immature age. We can successfully utilize the same process in a variety of other real world situations to verify its utility. Psychological defenses against the absurdities of religion may be deeply repressed by those who experience a high level of religious influence. When opposing data meet the conditioned beliefs, cognitive dissonance takes over and represses such information or irrationally justifies the discrepancies in a manner that allows the confronted people to forget them. For centuries, this psychological phenomenon has prevented people from accepting rational conclusions about Christianity."

[mr.ho_chia2]

exactly, because the insecurities of the Christians can only be filled with the assurance that the Almighty GOD holds their future. That is indeed true security............. that the world can never see.

================================================== ================

mura pareha raman na sa non-believers, they too would attempt to explain what they stand for to their children and thus the cycle goes on. but the real question would be, who has the truth?

for us Christian we have the truth in GOD, that the world can never handle.

[nemmo723]

Ah, but we are forgetting about that aspect of a Godly relationship which involves people!

J.P. Holdings makes reference to scholars Malina and Neyrey in Portraits of Paul1, who noted that the Jewish concept of the word agapao, aside from being a total devotion to and love for God, carries with it the value of "group attachment and bonding", which translates to actions doing the "utmost good for the group". Jewish/Semitic society (including Arabs & Egyptians) was essentially a group-based community, in contrast with our individualistic 20th century lifestyles.

So, even at the socio-cultural level na mismo (we haven't delved into theology yet), the right relationship with God entails interdependence with people, so much so that if we do not exhibit goods deeds towards fellow men, it leaves our faith in question.

Hence, no wonder John the Apostle shouts back at his letters: "If anyone does not love his brother, he is a liar; whoever loves God must also love his brother." We now understand that his statements carry more than a theological influence, in fact, they have socio-cultural impressions in the first place.

Consequently, at this junction, I suppose it is safe to conclude that the Christian worldview/Godly relationship promotes interdependence, I might say, on a more profound scale.

Last na ning theology nako. he he

----------
1 Tektonics Ministries - http://www.tektonics.org/whatis/whatlove.html

once again, i am impressed.. thank you for carrying that farther.
true, i believe a relationship with God (or the way i would put it, having a principle of what is good) promotes interdependence. we cannot have a lasting interdependence with our fellow humans if not founded on what is good. what i have intended from the very beginning is to point out that it does not end in dependency on God, or independence on one's self, but rather an interdependence with everyone around us.

you see, to me, a personal relationship with God equates to a dependency on a "God" person granting that this personal relationship maintains the humility within the person; and having a principle of what is good equates to an independence of one's self granting that this independence does not turn into pride and arrogance, either way they point to what is good. the former will later learn of independence when he starts to evaluate the "good" things he has learned. the latter begins with dependency when he initially professes himself to the principle he commits to.

beside the point, the "good" is not something to be found in common places, it is a jewel, a rare diamond that once a person "knows where it is", will trade everything he has to acquire that jewel. of course, he has to verify that this treasure is real to some degree, lest he risks negative probabilities that its a fake.

and so, (like you said) the end result is an interdependence. if i may add, not only within our human society, but to the universe at large--with every living (or non-living) entity.


now back to AC's post, if this "crutch" does not promote anymore an interdependence, then its become a prison chain or enslavement, or an addiction than what it was intended to in the first place. i would compare it to a building, when the architect first builds the building, he puts up unsightly trusses during early construction. but when the actual beams and columns are put in place, these trusses serve no purpose anymore but hinder the passersby and occupants of the building. the only logical/practical reason the trusses aren't removed is because the actual beams and columns cannot hold the weight of the entire building if it were removed. this becomes a prison chain or an enslavement... likewise, in medicine, drugs are used to treat an illness. but when the illness is gone, and the person continues to consume the drugs, that's because its become an addiction. the religious dependency that results in these kinds is an enslavement, or an addiction.

[Gwynhuever]

...nya how about those who believe that God is within... Jesus himself said "have I not called all ye Gods?".....

[nemmo723]

umm, mr. ho, murag hapit na ka ma-bulls eye. sige lng, ginadeflect raman nko imong mga personal remarks.

Call it whatever you wish sir. If by your view i have no objective basis then it will remain to be your view, i see it differently though. I may say that actually it is you who have very subjective perception and thus a personal concept of what should have been something independent and objectively asserting to what the Bible is saying. It's hard to breakthrough with a made up mind. as always it is futile, my truth is foolishness to you, while your objectivity is sham alternative to me. well, that's life.

like i said, its not just my view, i base it from an objective reference of the true meaning of words. ikaw, unsa man imong objective reference mr. ho?

thank you for admitting that you are as fallible as anyone else, and thank you for admitting as well that the ultimate truth does not come from you. but oopppsss.... your the messenger of the absolute truth? naman sir.... personalan na yan ah....... well, maybe to you --- you are but frankly speaking mura wala man cguro ghapon ka karapatan to say that of yourself dba sir? ako lang pud na objective view sir ha dili ni personalan.

again you misunderstand my words, here is what i posted, please ayaw lahi-a ug sabot akong gipang post, kay dili na mao.
i said, the ultimate truth does not come from me, i am just a messenger. pero imong pagsabot na sa ako gikan ang absolute truth? dili man na mao. i do not dictate what is the absolute truth. i just merely bring the message. i see the truth in another person as that other person sees the truth in me. i did not write the letter, i just deliver them. kung sa postman pa na inistoryahay, trabaho ra ni ako, walang personalan. dili bugbogon ang gadala sa suwat kung wala ta ka-ayon sa sulod sa suwat. kung padalhan ta ug notice of eviction kay wala ta kabayad sa mortgage sa bangko, dili angay batu-on ang gadeliver sa notice, diba. unya ngano wala man koy karapatan to say that? unsa man imong evidence nagcontradict sa akong gisulti? na-refute nimo ang message akong gipresent? in another example, kung padalhan ta ug late payment notice of disconnection, diba naa ginasuwat na if we have made payments prior to this notice, we can disregard this letter, and our thanks and appreciation for the payment.. so, if we can provide proof of such payment, then we have nothing to worry about the message, diba.

simple ra jud kaau to, what's the meaning of free salvation for all men...?

so i-lad2x sa lamesa imong mga proofs of argument supporting na free salvation for all men jud na, unya atong tanawn kung ma-conclude ba jud na free salvation for all men.. metaphorically speaking, i hope you will lay down your cards on the table, and lets have a dealer to judge whose cards have won the bet. lets just stick to free salvation for all men..

in light of reviewing my post, i have some corrections. ... i am just a messenger of some truths. there, i hope satisfied na ka, mr. ho?

if you see discrepancies in what people believe in, you think yours has none? flawless spotless into perfection? naman sir......... that's why i was saying sa una pa we need to examine ourselves, kay maybe we are just to engrossed with what we know that sometimes we fail to see our own short comings ba.

umm, ni-ingon ko na spotless ug perfect akong belief? naa pa sab ko i-figure out sa akong belief mr. ho. imo na jud ni gi-personalan. paeta pud ani oi... like i said, dont put words in my mouth, kay wala man ko nag-ingon na spotless akong belief..

ako sir wala objectivity, ikaw lang? hehe, wa sab ko kabalo ana, your suggestions are very objective is that it sir? naman...... putting words to your mouth, i dare not sir. ikaw raman ana sir oi, that's your forte i observe.

and please sir, ngano i-attack man tika sir oi, maybe you are just feeling it because you feel that your words has to be heard and accepted. well sir, i did hear you well but to me those words are nothing of substance that can convince me from following it, I have nothing against you, i just don't accept what your stand. simple as that. so please don't force me, and let me be sa ako belief, i don't intend as well to convince you to heed to my words.

ahak oi.. nag-ingon bitaw ko nimo na bahala ka unsa imong buhaton. Pero ayaw pud pagbuot kung mupadayon ko ug sulti na NOT FREE jud na ang gitawag nimo na free salvation for all men. wa man ko nagdamay nimo mr. ho? wa man ko nanghilabot sa imong kina-iya. gi-daut nako imong pagkatao? unsa man akong gisulti na gidaut tikaw? nagbuot ko nimo sa imong pagtuo? ayaw pagbuot if id still say na NOT FREE. its up to you what you believe in. i do know its still NOT FREE though.

honestly lng, bisag unsa-on ug baligtad sa kalibutan, kanang free salvation for all men, dili jud na siya free salvation for all men sa pinaagi nimo pagsulti.

exactly what i am saying it is our nature to go for further advancement, mao pud na ato worldly securities, sa una ang 1 million is security enough but at this day and age 10 million could still be "kulang". exactly my point sir, that by human nature we have the desire to aspire for more, maski gani naanatay brand new CRV maganahan manta after a year to have an expedition napud. I t doesn't really have to be that backward. within this shpere of time human needs becomes more complicated by the moves.

that's depends mr. ho. it does not mean na kung naa na brand new CRV, mangayo ug expedition next year. kana siya, depende na sa need. kung wala siya reason, then product of a selfish soul na na. kanang dili jud makontento... ang desire to aspire more, kung walay moderation, extreme na, bati na na. as for me, and the people i know, practical ang principle. ngano mag-ilis man ko ug expedition sa akong CRV kung ang CRV nagserve pa man sa iyang purpose in a practical manner. likewise, if i had need of expedition, i would sell the CRV and get the expedition. however, in the latter case, i would make sure my investment in the CRV would last its full potential, kay waste na pud na kung sige na lng further advancement without check and balance. moderation ang key diha. and i bet many people will concur with this, especially kung sila ang naghago ug singot sa ilang gi-earn. the way you point it, wala man gud moderation imong "human nature"--unquenchable desire gud. kailangan jud na mukamit sa "ultimate security" para naa ma-secure ang tao. this is what you said diba... true security lies from within, not from without.

again those are unfair accusations based purely on assumptions with the intent to separate and uplift oneself. well, there are egoistic people, who need to feed their egos by making false witness at the expense of others. i really doubt if you are truly optimistic by the very ploy you do, sad to say it isn't optimistic at all sir. i am just frank with my views i hope you will not take it against me as i don't take those things you say against you as well.
and i am thankful to the scientist who day by day work to make our lives even better while on earth sir. nothing against them as you were insinuating. I am not talking about greed as well sir, i am saying that by our very nature we always wanted more, is that how you interpret it sir? greed? i suggest you open your mind a little more lang, it doesn't automatically point it to that direction.

ummm, murag ikaw ra man nag-imply ana mr. ho. unya i-pasa jud nimo nako... tay-sa, basketball player ka sauna noh, maayo man kaau ka mu-pasa gud. hehe.

sa imong examples gihatag, 5110 to new iphone, crv to expedition, old laptop and want something new karon, ang pangutana unquenchable desire for more ba na sila? when you speak of unquenchable desire for more, it literally means never contented diba? that is your human nature.. akong human nature is ma-contented ang tao to some point. even materially. these examples you give, if they serve a practical purpose to want something more, thats because there is a need for something more. if there is no need, and mangita jud ug paagi to satisfy that want, then selfish desires na na. to an extreme, its what you call greed. so tell me, do the examples you present have a need for more? or limited ra to "unquenchable desire (or want) for more?".. that's greed mr. ho.

greed, excessive desire to acquire or possess more than one needs or deserves.

the context of our discussion is all about security security in GOD and security in what the world will and can offer. Security in GOD is absolute, nothing more we need.
while security of what the world gives is relative to our needs, our status, and our wants as well. as our need increases that security increases as well the same true with the others. would that mean greed automatically? well not at all, not evil as well and definitely they too can sleep better probably than me.i hope you now understand that sir.

exactly, its about security. and you can go about security in ur GOD anyway you like it. pero wala nimo gi-huna2x, sometimes, our need also decreases. kung perpetually increasing na jud ang needs sa tao, di na na siya tao. black hole na na. or the red sea. or kung sa fairy tale pa, snow white's jealous mother.

haha, i wish i am a baptist, i don't object to their teaching about salvation and their belief in GOD. but more than the Baptist i believe in the pouring of the Holy Spirit of God to the human race. I as well believe in divine miracle healings.......... i wonder if Baptist do believe in that as well? but that is not important anymore. they are still my brothers and sister in Christ, i have high regards to the Baptist Church. keep on guessing you are closer.

Thanks Nemmo for hearing me, i hope i have not offended you with my strong words sometimes, more so if you feel it is very personal attack to you. sir, it is not, this is just a discussion, arguments may arise, no intention to hurt only to stress a point.

I surely wish your peace in you to remain. God bless and good day once again sir.

hehehe.. sus, wala ko nakajackpot. abi nko matag-an na nko ang winning lotto numbers.. unsa pa man lain denomination na close to baptist? hmmm.. i know.. maranatha.. which is pentecostal. sus, parehas diay mo sa akong aunt in manila who is pentecostal, but not maranatha. hehehe.. she is a pastor in their area there. im not sure if ur maranatha, but maybe pentecostal. but maranatha is baptist naman diba. anyway, if im wrong, then i guess ill be guessing again.

good day to you too!