If someone ask you "Luwas na ba ka?", whats ur answer?

[anti-christ]

---

mr. ho,

unsa man ang naka-free ana "free gift of salvation" if mareceive ra na xa via certain conditions?

Sounds insecure to me. Sounds like emotional blackmail. Kneel and worship me and I'll give you what you want.

some thoughts from another forum: the psychology of a believer

Many 'believers' are people with inner weaknesses who find it hard to function properly in the world without the psychological crutch of a god and/or religion. They cling to their patently (false) beliefs because it seems to help them deal with the world around them (at the cost of not facing the truth).

To illustrate, for those who are born poor or ugly or dumb or without social skills, some of them will find it intolerable to see a world where beauty, wealth, intelligence, etc... are possessed by others but where they feel they did not get their fair share.

No one is 'perfect', but some are clearly much worse off than others and to them the existence of a divine, all-powerful (and most importantly, invisible) 'arbiter of all' serves as an equalizer that seems to render the gap between a have-not and a have 'irrelevant'.

Such insecurities are a very powerful incentive for the dimmer bulbs among us to believe in absurdities like "mansions and roads in heaven paved with gold" (Jesus Christ was laying it on really thick that time :chuckle: ), "72 virgins in paradise waiting for you", etc... and definitely do their share to reinforce belief in otherwise ridiculous religious propositions. This born-again belief of being 'reincarnated in a perfect body', for example, is such a powerful and seductive promise that many of us would gladly believe in it no matter how absurd its other accompanying beliefs are.

The 'believer' thinks: "So-and-so may be rich and have a beautiful gf/bf but in 'god's eyes' the two of us are no different and my 'devotion to god (no matter how fictitious he may actually be)' in fact makes me more important in this ultrasupreme being's (compared to whom all our differences count for nothing) eyes than so-and-so and I will get my just rewards in heaven when this all-powerful judge of the universe gives me what I rightfully deserve and witholds it from this other person (that he/she envies). Heck if he/she gets thrown to hell then so much the better!.

Devotion to an all-powerful being (lying outside of human influence) is often a defense mechanism to make up for one's perceived inferiorities and lack of standing within the human sphere.

One thing to realize about this dynamic is that its manifestation can be extremely complex. What starts out as an attempt to override ones insecurities turns into an elaborate self-imposed charade of one impossible belief piled up on another. Because this charade or illusion can hardly be sustained if only one person believes it, now comes the desire to spread it. The deluded cannot expect to take himself seriously if other people do not, hence the urge to propagate the delusions. Because all of us are plagued with insecurities, these "defense mechanisms" (irrational religious ideas) do often successfully take root in varying degrees in other people.

[nemmo723]

yeah, ang gisulti gyud unta ni Jesus ang masunod first and foremost.. hehehe..
there's nothing wrong with going to church/fellowships but it would be wrong to force nga knahanglan gyud mosimba sa simbahan aron maluwas.. bsan pa unsaon ug simba if bitter sa isig ka.taw.. wa lng ghapon.. hehehe..
kanya2x lng nga style sa pag.worship, much better if first and foremost ang golden rule ang sundon, magsunod lng nang uban mando sa taw.. hehe..

yeah.. exactly.. there's nothing wrong with going to church/fellowships, if it makes one feel happy or mubelong.. we all need that every now and then in our lives..

[nemmo723]

Sounds insecure to me. Sounds like emotional blackmail. Kneel and worship me and I'll give you what you want.

some thoughts from another forum: the psychology of a believer

Many 'believers' are people with inner weaknesses who find it hard to function properly in the world without the psychological crutch of a god and/or religion. They cling to their patently (false) beliefs because it seems to help them deal with the world around them (at the cost of not facing the truth).

To illustrate, for those who are born poor or ugly or dumb or without social skills, some of them will find it intolerable to see a world where beauty, wealth, intelligence, etc... are possessed by others but where they feel they did not get their fair share.

No one is 'perfect', but some are clearly much worse off than others and to them the existence of a divine, all-powerful (and most importantly, invisible) 'arbiter of all' serves as an equalizer that seems to render the gap between a have-not and a have 'irrelevant'.

Such insecurities are a very powerful incentive for the dimmer bulbs among us to believe in absurdities like "mansions and roads in heaven paved with gold" (Jesus Christ was laying it on really thick that time :chuckle: ), "72 virgins in paradise waiting for you", etc... and definitely do their share to reinforce belief in otherwise ridiculous religious propositions. This born-again belief of being 'reincarnated in a perfect body', for example, is such a powerful and seductive promise that many of us would gladly believe in it no matter how absurd its other accompanying beliefs are.

The 'believer' thinks: "So-and-so may be rich and have a beautiful gf/bf but in 'god's eyes' the two of us are no different and my 'devotion to god (no matter how fictitious he may actually be)' in fact makes me more important in this ultrasupreme being's (compared to whom all our differences count for nothing) eyes than so-and-so and I will get my just rewards in heaven when this all-powerful judge of the universe gives me what I rightfully deserve and witholds it from this other person (that he/she envies). Heck if he/she gets thrown to hell then so much the better!.

Devotion to an all-powerful being (lying outside of human influence) is often a defense mechanism to make up for one's perceived inferiorities and lack of standing within the human sphere.

One thing to realize about this dynamic is that its manifestation can be extremely complex. What starts out as an attempt to override ones insecurities turns into an elaborate self-imposed charade of one impossible belief piled up on another. Because this charade or illusion can hardly be sustained if only one person believes it, now comes the desire to spread it. The deluded cannot expect to take himself seriously if other people do not, hence the urge to propagate the delusions. Because all of us are plagued with insecurities, these "defense mechanisms" (irrational religious ideas) do often successfully take root in varying degrees in other people.

Ouch! hehehe

[Gwynhuever]

@JX - frst of all i was being sacastic sa akong answer ni r0mm3l....kay ako most of the times di man ko nag simba na....

@ mr ho.....you asked for my personal opinion here it is....sometimes i like going to church...nahan man ko mo sing ug praise songs...most of the times i keep Holy the Sabbath Day by my own ways...i dont necessarily go to the church ( the building where everyone gathers to worship together)....i do not think it is necessary ...kay unsaon na man lang sad tong ingon ni Jesus "when you pray...close the door and pray in private....etc etc"

pero i still say luwas na ko...bahala na lang if mo lalis mo he he he

[The_Child]

Devotion to an all-powerful being (lying outside of human influence) is often a defense mechanism to make up for one's perceived inferiorities and lack of standing within the human sphere.\

ah, so if these are defense mechanisms, then it must have been natural to us human beings? so this mechanism must have evolved in us from a perceived threat? now if there is a defense mechanism against the omnipotent being does it mean there is a perceived threat from that being? if there is, does it not support his existence? or what? i dunno.

[ichor_82283]

@ JX
Going to church is the result of your salvation, of being a true christian, of belonging to a family.
The greek word for church is eklesia, meaning the called out ones or a group of believers. This group group together in a common place, the physical building to which we term- the church.

Heb 10:24-25
For me is the reason why we go to church. "Not to give the fellowship, as others do it as a habit."

[JX]

@Gwynhuever

yeah, i had the impression that you were being.. hehehe, but i also had the idea that, that kind of notion is also advocated.. thats why i wanted to tackle the issues about it.. hehe..

Devotion to an all-powerful being (lying outside of human influence) is often a defense mechanism to make up for one's perceived inferiorities and lack of standing within the human sphere.\

ah, so if these are defense mechanisms, then it must have been natural to us human beings? so this mechanism must have evolved in us from a perceived threat? now if there is a defense mechanism against the omnipotent being does it mean there is a perceived threat from that being? if there is, does it not support his existence? or what? i dunno.

hahaha.. i dunno too..

@ichor_82283

Going to church is a result of salvation? care to elaborate on that?
I beg to disagree that going to church equates to being a true christian.. being a true christian is following what Jesus taught.. A lot of churchgoers act bitter to others after the said group together..
And lastly, im contented w/ my family already, i could not ask for more.. hehehe,

[mr.ho_chia2]

youp, actually tama ka, no believer will be secure enough, infact that inner weakness is so strong and needed to be field in and without the LORD GOD almighty that will surely get worse to worst. life is full of insecurities....... we cannot be absolutely secure in things we don't know like the future. But for us HE holds the future, being dependent on the living GOD is security enough. hehe

but of course there are people who admit it and there are who wont, and arrogantly they will boast they know where they are going..... well ila pud na, they feel they are so secure, maybe they are rich, enough money to sustain themselves and their family in a lifetime........ they feel they are not vulnerable to sickness like cancer, Alzheimer's disease or they are exempted from nature's fury and free from accident, full control of their lives so they say......... but is it really true? maybe not now, but surely when struck of something unexpected that so called security will be like a melting ice under the summer sun.... or maybe a facade, a mask that makes as someone elses than our real selves.......

well............ who knows?

[mr.ho_chia2]

nya sir dili mani hangin, coke mani nga ako gpanghatag free........ so kay ako nagdistribute ako ghatag walay bayad dli ni free? monopoly of distribution ni? maski wala ko nag pabayad ako ra ghatag ni akong coke sa kung kinsa ganahan? dli ghapon ni free sir?

so sa ato pa kung ako palinyahun ang mga tao for order para hapsay matagaan tanan ug coke nga walay bayad, dli na ni free? kay gpalinya na? mao na sir? wa sab ko kabalo ana da.

unya pananglitan wala sila naminaw sa ako announcement nga naa kuy libreng coke ipanghatag kada alas5 hangtud alas 8 sa gabii, nya wala cya kadungog so sa ato pa dili nato libre ang coke nga nadawat sa mga tao nga nakadungog ug ni adto pag 5 to 8 pm? wa sab ko kabalo ana..........

unya sir, ang salvation sir libre na sa tanan....... imo na mga pamolong nga kinahanglan mo simba ka dir sa ako simbahan arun maluwas ka..... na unsa man ka sir oi, imo naman na gpasangil nako nga mao ako gpanulti, dili baya sir, ang ako reference nimo kay katong Eph sir, wala raba didto nga kinahanglan ka mosimba kuyog nako, ayaw intawun pag buhatbuhat ug istorya dha sir oi..........

ug ang salvation dili pud na pareha sa insurance nga libre kunuhaay unya pa bayrun....... pait........ sa man sa coke nga ako gipanghatag libre na wala kay bayaran, but kung gusto ka mo kuha anang libre, ari ko, dili nga ako pay adto nimo...... dba?

Btaw ang Chritian GOD is a jealous GOD but kung dili ka niya, wa may pugsanay, para raman ni sa mga Christian gud. pili lang ka unsa imo gusto.... naa man kay free will walay but-anay...... in the same way nga dili pud ka kabuot kung unsa ako gusto dba?

but you have all the right to say nga sayop ko...... kesyo ingani, kesyo ingana......... or ang Christian GOD ingani o ingana........... kay matud panimo duna kay mas maayo nga explinasyun, so ok ra na.........

naa rana nako kung mutuo bako nimo o dili kay kung ako tanaw mas maayo paka sa Christian GOD d ikaw akong tuohan but kung ako tanaw mas maayo ang Christian God kay sa nimo far... far... far.... better aw, dili ko tuo sa imong mga pamolong... dba?

frankly speaking i don't have anu problem with my faith, with my GOD and with anyone else. Mabuhi man ko maski way minaw nako, ug dili pud ko mapugos maminaw sa mga pamolong nga wako nituo.

kung imo tanaw dili na free naay bayad na kay naay condition na ang ginatawag nga free gift of salvation sa christian GOD, aw, ayaw dawata, i labay na, pwede paman nimo gani luwaan kung gusto ka.......

but sa ako, tanaw nako libre na, so ako gdawat, nya happy ko sa akong gibuhat, as a matter of gratitude, for the free gift i received, i do things that please my GOD not as a task, or an obligation and definitely not a burden to me, i do it because it gives me pleasure and i enjoy doing it. so, ngano paman maminaw ko nga dili gyud ni lebre nga ako may nakadawat ug ako tanaw paminaw libre gyud.

OT: tanaw nya ko imo flickers...... thanks daan.

[nemmo723]

Devotion to an all-powerful being (lying outside of human influence) is often a defense mechanism to make up for one's perceived inferiorities and lack of standing within the human sphere.\

ah, so if these are defense mechanisms, then it must have been natural to us human beings? so this mechanism must have evolved in us from a perceived threat? now if there is a defense mechanism against the omnipotent being does it mean there is a perceived threat from that being? if there is, does it not support his existence? or what? i dunno.

the defense mechanism here is not against the omnipotent, but rather within the human sphere. a defense mechanism against another fellow human being.

@ichor_82283
Going to church is a result of salvation? care to elaborate on that?
I beg to disagree that going to church equates to being a true christian.. being a true christian is following what Jesus taught.. A lot of churchgoers act bitter to others after the said group together..

i wouldn't agree on this either. going to church may be ONE result to being a true christian, but its not the ONLY result. many people go to church for different reasons, and one of those is not being a true christian. it does not equate at all..

youp, actually tama ka, no believer will be secure enough, infact that inner weakness is so strong and needed to be field in and without the LORD GOD almighty that will surely get worse to worst. life is full of insecurities....... we cannot be absolutely secure in things we don't know like the future. But for us HE holds the future, being dependent on the living GOD is security enough. hehe

but of course there are people who admit it and there are who wont, and arrogantly they will boast they know where they are going..... well ila pud na, they feel they are so secure, maybe they are rich, enough money to sustain themselves and their family in a lifetime........ they feel they are not vulnerable to sickness like cancer, Alzheimer's disease or they are exempted from nature's fury and free from accident, full control of their lives so they say......... but is it really true? maybe not now, but surely when struck of something unexpected that so called security will be like a melting ice under the summer sun.... or maybe a facade, a mask that makes as someone elses than our real selves.......

well............ who knows?

you're comparing two extremes mr. ho.. just because other people dont do what you do doesn't mean its the exact negative opposite of what you do. and you think na believers are being humble about their belief? and non-believers are being arrogant about their sureness? a lot of people are insecure, and many of them struggle to live by in different manner than yours. at least some people i know don't USE GOD to fill in their insecurities. they fill it in with the reality of the things around them, a true authentic search for growth; people who are responsible enough for themselves, and not keep using GOD as a crutch eternally preserving their insecurity in the container of GOD. that's pitiful, sometimes pathetic, but that's life, humans are just being humans.

but you have all the right to say nga sayop ko...... kesyo ingani, kesyo ingana......... or ang Christian GOD ingani o ingana........... kay matud panimo duna kay mas maayo nga explinasyun, so ok ra na.........

kung imo tanaw dili na free naay bayad na kay naay condition na ang ginatawag nga free gift of salvation sa christian GOD, aw, ayaw dawata, i labay na, pwede paman nimo gani luwaan kung gusto ka.......

wa man ko nanghilabot nimo mr. ho.. akong gi-istoryahan diri kay kanang "free salvation". ayaw i-dala ug personalan..

how free is that really? free salvation for all men man kaha na, diba? kinsa nag-ingon na dili na dawaton, libre gud, dawaton jud. ayaw nang luwa2x, kay hugaw na. kung musimba ko sa taoist temple, kanang "free salvation for all men", free pa kaha na para nko? naa gud condition.. so unsa jud na ka free? free ra na kung mutuo ko ni kristo? like i said, what kind of person manghatag ug free na butang, pero naa requirement before makuha ang freebie?