RELIGION....(part 2)

[mosimos]

---

mosimos & everyone

DACS
The people Christ commissioned to spread the gospel to all nations are indeed mere mortals.Â* Yet, with the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit, no official teachings of the Catholic Church can be flawed.Â* You have then to remember that, although there is a heirarchy in the Catholic Church, all are disciples of Christ.

indeed the official teachings of the Catholic church is infallible but the vehicle that spread these teachings are the ones fallible...lets say for example, there was this priest who is good in preaching the gospel, but some parishioners knew the other side of this priest, that he was once seen drinking and gambling with his buddies, and that he has a live in partner [a typical realities of being a mere mortal]

True that the priest is eloquent in delivering the words and teachings of God, but his other side of being a human will set a bad example to the people..making people to beleive that the religion this priest serve is not a good religion..thus the clause "Religion is Flawed because man itself is Flawed" seems just appropriate.

If people will always claim that the infallibility of the Church is diminished because of the frailty of the priests who are commissioned to spread the Good News, then no one is capable of continuing Christ work.

These people who always try to fault find the priest is asking for the impossible.

Let us say I accuse other people of crime.Â* Then somebody would always say you have no right to question the criminals action because you are not perfect too.

The intention really of these people is simple.Â* They want us Catholics to shut up.Â* They dont want the priest to lead the war against immorality. They cannot stand that we in the Catholic Church stand up for something we believe in.Â* Thats why the least that they could do is accuse us of being imperfect or being sinners.Â*

These people dont understand that God can forgive and in forgiving you are renewed and become worthy to emulate his acts and spread His Teachings.Â*

for the record i myself is a catholic..i go to church every sunday inspite of a hectic life..my only contention here is that since the priest/laymen/deacons have its infirmity for being a mere mortal, it is beyond reason that every religion is bound to be flawed...for a fact, the catholic church recently had been condemned for the abuse cases of some our priests, which in a way not a good example of being a Christian and totally debases from their true mission that is to IMITATE CHRIST;

“Their mission [the priest] is not theirs, but is the same mission of Jesus.

“Priests are called to prolong the presence of Christ, the one high priest, embodying His way of life and making Him visible in the midst of the flock entrusted to their care.

“In the Church and on behalf of the Church, priests are a sacramental representation of Jesus Christ, the head and shepherd, authoritatively proclaiming His Word, repeating His acts of forgiveness and His offer of salvation, particularly in baptism, penance and the eucharist, showing his loving concern to the point of a total gift of self for the flock, which they gather into unity and lead to the Father through Christ and in the Spirit.� (Pastores Dabo Vobis 14, 15)

True that our priest is only human, nothing to argue with that..but how can they fulfill the mission that Christ passed to them if they will exploit this humanly characteristic as an excuse to every flaws they make?..just like an example here:

http://www.americancatholic.org/News/ClergySexAbuse/

if the priests/clergymen/deacons made a VOW to follow and imitate JESUS CHRIST then they should be like HIM, not in a way of being perfect but should be close to being perfect..

else, the religion that these priests/clergymen/deacons serve is bound to be FLAWED!..and that is an infallible fact.

tolstoi

Unsa may imo gyud gusto bay? NGa PERFECT ang mga pari ug obispo? Dili man tawon na mahimo kay sama nato ordinaryong mortal ra man na sila.

It seems you are confused about the doctrine about infallibility. Ang meaning ana brod is that when it comes to teachings of FAITH and MORALS the Pope is infallible. Wa na siya magpasabot na dapat infallible pod ang Pope o kaha mga pari sa ilang pagka tawo kay di man gyud na mahitabo.

Si kinsa man kanato karon aning kalibutana moingon nga perfect siya? Kay kung moingon ang usa ka tawo nga perfect siya nan dili na siya tawo, GINOO na siya.

I understand your longing of righteous members of the religious pero it seems you are more concentrated on the bad ones. You even accuse them of profit making. Tsk, pag bisita pod ug mga monastery ug tanawa didto unsa nga klase sa profit making ang imong gipasabot.

Mao ni nakapait sa ato katoliko. Grabe ta mo demand sa atong mga pari ug mga madre nga mag tinarong pero mangutana pod unta ta sa atong kaugalingon, sa ato pagkatawo perpekto ba ta? Nagbuhat ba ta sa angay buhaton isip Katoliko subay sa doctrina ug pag tulun-an sa atong Ginoong Hesukristo? Gi ampo ba nato ang atong mga kaparian, kamadrehan ug mga ka obispohan. Sige ta pangadye sa mga madre ug mga mongha para tabangan ta makapasar sa board exam nga mamaayo ang atong mga nagmasakiton nga minahal sa kinabuhi pero sa ato kaugalingon nag ampo ba sab kita para sa atong mga pari ug mga madre?

We are the Church. Ug kun gusto ta nga matarong ato simbahan kita tagsa tagsa adunay katungdanan sa paghatag ug katumanan niini.

[dacs]

Catholics make and recognize the distinction between the person and the office. We call our public officials as honorable not because they all are people of distinct honor but because the office itself is worthy of honor. That is the very reason why, when these officials act in a dishonorable way, it is doubly offensive - first, to the people they are supposed to serve and, more importantly, to the office itself.

When we talk about the office of the commissioner of Bureau of Customs, it is quite probable that we associate it to graft and corruption. Yet, the office is really honorable. It is the person that brings dishonor to it.

[Cardinal Bunal]

.. cardinal, here you go again, stop acting like a smart-arse coz it's not doing you any good. Your statement above clearly shows you're only for the "sake of arguement" but not what you truly believe in.

What? I believed in everything I posted there...

[tolstoi]

mosimos & everyone

DACS
The people Christ commissioned to spread the gospel to all nations are indeed mere mortals. Yet, with the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit, no official teachings of the Catholic Church can be flawed. You have then to remember that, although there is a heirarchy in the Catholic Church, all are disciples of Christ.

indeed the official teachings of the Catholic church is infallible but the vehicle that spread these teachings are the ones fallible...lets say for example, there was this priest who is good in preaching the gospel, but some parishioners knew the other side of this priest, that he was once seen drinking and gambling with his buddies, and that he has a live in partner [a typical realities of being a mere mortal]

True that the priest is eloquent in delivering the words and teachings of God, but his other side of being a human will set a bad example to the people..making people to beleive that the religion this priest serve is not a good religion..thus the clause "Religion is Flawed because man itself is Flawed" seems just appropriate.

If people will always claim that the infallibility of the Church is diminished because of the frailty of the priests who are commissioned to spread the Good News, then no one is capable of continuing Christ work.

These people who always try to fault find the priest is asking for the impossible.

Let us say I accuse other people of crime. Then somebody would always say you have no right to question the criminals action because you are not perfect too.

The intention really of these people is simple. They want us Catholics to shut up. They dont want the priest to lead the war against immorality. They cannot stand that we in the Catholic Church stand up for something we believe in. Thats why the least that they could do is accuse us of being imperfect or being sinners.

These people dont understand that God can forgive and in forgiving you are renewed and become worthy to emulate his acts and spread His Teachings.

for the record i myself is a catholic..i go to church every sunday inspite of a hectic life..my only contention here is that since the priest/laymen/deacons have its infirmity for being a mere mortal, it is beyond reason that every religion is bound to be flawed...for a fact, the catholic church recently had been condemned for the abuse cases of some our priests, which in a way not a good example of being a Christian and totally debases from their true mission that is to IMITATE CHRIST;

“Their mission [the priest] is not theirs, but is the same mission of Jesus.

“Priests are called to prolong the presence of Christ, the one high priest, embodying His way of life and making Him visible in the midst of the flock entrusted to their care.

“In the Church and on behalf of the Church, priests are a sacramental representation of Jesus Christ, the head and shepherd, authoritatively proclaiming His Word, repeating His acts of forgiveness and His offer of salvation, particularly in baptism, penance and the eucharist, showing his loving concern to the point of a total gift of self for the flock, which they gather into unity and lead to the Father through Christ and in the Spirit.� (Pastores Dabo Vobis 14, 15)

True that our priest is only human, nothing to argue with that..but how can they fulfill the mission that Christ passed to them if they will exploit this humanly characteristic as an excuse to every flaws they make?..just like an example here:

http://www.americancatholic.org/News/ClergySexAbuse/

if the priests/clergymen/deacons made a VOW to follow and imitate JESUS CHRIST then they should be like HIM, not in a way of being perfect but should be close to being perfect..

else, the religion that these priests/clergymen/deacons serve is bound to be FLAWED!..and that is an infallible fact.

tolstoi

Unsa may imo gyud gusto bay? NGa PERFECT ang mga pari ug obispo? Dili man tawon na mahimo kay sama nato ordinaryong mortal ra man na sila.

i've already given my stance..kindly read here:

if the priests/clergymen/deacons made a VOW to follow and imitate JESUS CHRIST then they should be like HIM, not in a way of being perfect but should be close to being perfect..

else, the religion that these priests/clergymen/deacons serve is bound to be FLAWED!..and that is an infallible fact.

again, i'm not saying that priest must be perfect in order to follow Christ, but at least he/she should be at least close to being perfect..and one way to achieve this is through DISCIPLINE...what do you think is the comparison between a Buddhist monks and a Christian priest/clergyman in terms of DISCIPLINE??

I understand your longing of righteous members of the religious pero it seems you are more concentrated on the bad ones. You even accuse them of profit making. Tsk, pag bisita pod ug mga monastery ug tanawa didto unsa nga klase sa profit making ang imong gipasabot.

where is now the HUMILITY that CHRIST imparted on HIS succesors when priest/nuns are instituting schools and hospitals that only caters the RICH??..do you think this is included in HIS teachings to be humble and serve the least fortunate?

Ps. 10:14

Mao ni nakapait sa ato katoliko. Grabe ta mo demand sa atong mga pari ug mga madre nga mag tinarong pero mangutana pod unta ta sa atong kaugalingon, sa ato pagkatawo perpekto ba ta? Nagbuhat ba ta sa angay buhaton isip Katoliko subay sa doctrina ug pag tulun-an sa atong Ginoong Hesukristo? Gi ampo ba nato ang atong mga kaparian, kamadrehan ug mga ka obispohan. Sige ta pangadye sa mga madre ug mga mongha para tabangan ta makapasar sa board exam nga mamaayo ang atong mga nagmasakiton nga minahal sa kinabuhi pero sa ato kaugalingon nag ampo ba sab kita para sa atong mga pari ug mga madre?

the flocks are always looking up to their shepherd for guidance..if they have a VOW to imitate Christ, then they should adhere to this VOW and always follow Christ's path..the least that i can do here [as part of the flock] is to keep them on their toes and pray that they will be enlightend with Christ's wisdom.

[mannyamador]

where is now the HUMILITY that CHRIST imparted on HIS succesors when priest/nuns are instituting schools and hospitals that only caters the RICH??..do you think this is included in HIS teachings to be humble and serve the least fortunate?

Please name these institutions and SUBSTANTIATE those charges by showing that ONLY rich people go to those institutions..

I went to one one such school that some people mistakenly think is for the rich only. What people didn't know is that fully one-fifth of the student populartion at tha time was on SCHOLARSHIP! BY now, the percentage is probably even larger. Church-run hospitals also have free services for the poor, and they are often far better than the services offered by government hospitals!

So the charge that they cater to the rich only is TOTALLY FALSE AND IRRESPONSIBLE.

[nindotkanon]

where is now the HUMILITY that CHRIST imparted on HIS succesors when priest/nuns are instituting schools and hospitals that only caters the RICH??..do you think this is included in HIS teachings to be humble and serve the least fortunate?

Please name these institutions and SUBSTANTIATE those charges by showing that ONLY rich people go to those institutions..

I went to one one such school that some people mistakenly think is for the rich only. What people didn't know is that fully one-fifth of the student populartion at tha time was on SCHOLARSHIP! BY now, the percentage is probably even larger. Church-run hospitals also have free services for the poor, and they are often far better than the services offered by government hospitals!

So the charge that they cater to the rich only is TOTALLY FALSE AND IRRESPONSIBLE.

1. Saint Paul's Hospital, Tacloban- they dont accept patients unless 50% or more for deposit.

2. Bethany Hospital, Tacloban City also- Pay 100 % bill first before admitance. If admitted, you cannot get out from the hospital.

3. You should be admitted, he he

[mannyamador]

1. Saint Paul's Hospital, Tacloban- they dont accept patients unless 50% or more for deposit.
2. Bethany Hospital, Tacloban City also- Pay 100 % bill first before admitance. If admitted, you cannot get out from the hospital.

Kindly produce for us the official statement from St. Paul's Hospital demanding such deposit from ALL of their patients. And kindly produce for us documentary evidence of ONLY rich people being allowed into those hospitals.

None? You'll have to do better than that.

By the way, there are HUNDREDS of Church-run hospitals. And you can name only TWO? You are engaging a SWEEPING GENERALIZATION, which is a logical error, by the way.

3. You should be admitted, he he

And that last one just shows how totally unreliable your "evidence" really is.

[nindotkanon]

1. Saint Paul's Hospital, Tacloban- they dont accept patients unless 50% or more for deposit.
2. Bethany Hospital, Tacloban City also- Pay 100 % bill first before admitance. If admitted, you cannot get out from the hospital.

Kindly produce for us the official statement from St. Paul's Hospital demanding such deposit from ALL of their patients. And kindly produce for us documentary evidence of ONLY rich people being allowed into those hospitals.

None? You'll have to do better than that.

By the way, there are HUNDREDS of Church-run hospitals. And you can name only TWO? You are engaging a SWEEPING GENERALIZATION, which is a logical error, by the way.

3. You should be admitted, he he

And that last one just shows how totally unreliable your "evidence" really is.

now here we go...hehehehehehe. hahahahaha. you should really be admitted. sasampalin ka na nga ng truth hehehehehe

[mannyamador]

now here we go...hehehehehehe. hahahahaha. you should really be admitted.

Still no real evidence from you? I thought so.

[nindotkanon]

now here we go...hehehehehehe. hahahahaha. you should really be admitted.

Still no real evidence from you? I thought so.

I'm sure you already know the real evidence. Youre just acting like a dumb or a numb. He he.