RELIGION

[MrBiddle]

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Okey, I have to check more papers now. Be back later!

OT: Are you religious education instructor Edwin Vallecer from San Carlos main?

[dacs]

Tapsing?! Please read and try to know the facts. The Catholic Church is the biggest charitable institution in the world - expending billions of dollars in charitable works. Caritas, a Catholic charitable group, is in fact the biggest charitable group in the whole world in terms of charitable expenditures. Grabe na man sad na ka prejudiced imong gipanulti, sis.

Tell me, how should the priests get their living allowances? If some Protestant pastors require tithes, why see only the voluntary offerings given to priests? What happens to the 'love offerings' in your church? Nothing goes to the pastors? Who audit these pastors?

Bro, try to be more polite with N'Gel. She's a moderator unless nagsabot mo and this seeming absence of more tact is a farce for you to defend the RCC in a very presentable manner but I doubt that.

May I remind you that mods are to be treated with utmost respect.

Pardon me, bro. Is not it the job of the moderator to show the way of how a discussion should proceed? Have you read her comment prior to my reply? Compare objectively how much offense should be taken between our posts. The worst I did is say these words : Grabe na man sad na ka prejudiced imong gipanulti, sis. I have presented her facts, not innuendos.

[dacs]

Okey, I have to check more papers now. Be back later!

OT: Are you religious education instructor Edwin Vallecer from San Carlos main?

From from it, bro.

Ask tingkagol. He had posted earlier, and he was a former student of mine. I belong to the College of Engineering.

[MrBiddle]

Pardon me, bro. Â*Is not it the job of the moderator to show the way of how a discussion should proceed? Â*Have you read her comment prior to my reply? Â*Compare objectively how much offense should be taken between our posts. Â*The worst I did is say these words : Grabe na man sad na ka prejudiced imong gipanulti, sis. Â*I have presented her facts, not innuendos.

Unless you're a favorite then I wouldn't worry about you.

Yes, it's the job of a mod. Of course I have been more offensive in my manner, plus add to that my "disobedience" to the RCC then you know one of the options of how a mod could react.

This shouldnt become a contest of how much or less offensive we have been to mods or non-mods in our previous exchanges. Â*

[MrBiddle]

Hey, as Von-x! has pointed out, the assertions of the RCC and INK on salvation are somewhat similar. I have question though do you reckon Mahatma Gandhi will be saved? Or will he be sentenced to eternal damnation? (Rom. 2: 10 - 12 )

I watch shows in CCTN saying that "it is possible for non Catholics to be saved" but knowing the implications of the catechism? It seems to deny that verse in Romans Chapter Two I stated above.

[MrBiddle]

About my post above ^^ I guess the apparition in Bosnia or Medjugorge will dispute me.

Don't think I haven't read CROSSING THE TIBER or the VASULLA RYDEN books.Â* I'm NOT afraid to STEP BACK a little bit... and put 2 and 2 together.

Now Dacs, I've mentioned my stand on how history can be ambiguous. Will you do yourself a favor? I hope you meditate on the implications of hyperdulia and if you can retrieve a Septuagint text read 2 Thes. 2: 2 - 12.

Oi, Blessed be Mary jud baya - Luke 1: 48

But I hope you give my.... innuendos some if little credence.

[MrBiddle]

Obese Bo Ricardo, the head of the Catholic church is the vatican, not Jesus. Jesus is the Christ they believe in.

I will give you a better - and correct - presentation. The Pope who resides at Vatican City is the vicar of Christ and therefore acts as the visible head of the Church until Christ comes again. Since Christ had entrusted to Peter the feeding of the lambs, and the tending and feeding of the sheeps (John 21:15-17). It is Peter to whom Christ prayed that his faith may not fail and it is Peter who will strengthen his brothers (Luke 22:31-32). Even when the Lord was still with them, it was Peter who acted as his proxy (Matthew 17:24-27). Peter, in paying the tax for Jesus, acts as the Lord's proxy in this earthly matter. In Revelations 3:7, it is Jesus who holds the key to the Kingdom of Heaven since the beginning of time. This Christ give to Peter (Matthew 16:19). This is analogous to what happened with Eliakim in Isaiah 22:15-25. Since a successor is always required for a vacant office (Acts 1:12-26), the successor of Peter - that is, the Pope - holds the keys that Christ has given to Peter. The Pope then acts as the vicar of Christ - the earthly ambassador of the Heavenly King, Jesus Christ.


Quote from: n`gel on August 19, 2005, 11:40:05 PM
Pero ang Katolikong pagtuo mugna sa taw. Mao ni siya atong gitawag ug dogma. Authority ba gikan sa mamumuo sa church. Pwersa ba nga pagtudlo... dili pwedeng dili motuo kay kung dili ka motuo la kay faith ingon nila.

Dogmas are not man-made. Dogmas are doctrines of faith that have come to be questioned/attacked by heretics and have to be defended by the Church time and again. These attacks had led to fuller understanding of that doctrine and a fuller definition/description was then placed into words. The divinity of Christ was questioned and attacked before. This led the Church to study the case to make a fuller expression of what it had already believed. That dogma is that Christ is fully human and fully divine. There was also a time that somebody insisted that Christ has only a divine will. The Church also studied the case to make a fuller expression of what it had already believed. That dogma is that Christ has both human and divine will and these two are in complete union. Every dogma of the Catholic Church is a doctrine of the Christian faith. You could say that all dogmas are doctrines but not all doctrines are dogmas.


Quote from: n`gel on August 19, 2005, 11:40:05 PM
Dili ta magpakabuta, daghan kaayo contradictions ang catholic doctrines, sa mga tinudlo ni Jesus. Si Jesus dili to magpabayad kada lihok niya. Imbitahon ra sila kaon, tsinelas ra ilang sakyanan, dili carriage. He was poor, and His disciples were also poor. He said leave all wealth and follow him. Mas na mention pa kadaghan sa Bibliya ang paghatag sa mga pobre kaysa paghatag sa simbahan.

Kana lang daan nga dogma contradiction na. If God said give to Him... Nagtuo ta nga ang mga kwarta sa simbahan gihatag nila sa Ginoo. Dili ni literal uy.

You're funny. It has never been a dogma of the Church that priests are to be paid for their works - but it certainly is biblical. I believe it could never be a dogma. 1 Corinthians 9:1-27 tells us, though, that it is the right of those who work in the vineyards of the Lord to earn their living on the fruits of the vineyards (1 Corinthians 9:11). Though St. Paul did not make use of this right, he neither condemned it or preached against it.


Quote from: n`gel on August 19, 2005, 11:40:05 PM
Naa gyud na sa iyang tudlo nga ang paghatag sa mga pobre gahatag ka niya as well. Mga du, datu kaayong vatican uy, ug gihatag sa mga pobre ang ilang kwarta (hatag man tuod na sila noh? Pero tapsing²) lang. Sus la lang mo kebaw pilay kwarta ma kolekta kada parokya every month. Tanan gud naay bayad, bunyag, kasal, patay, hasta gani paampo sa lubong naa pa bayad kada usa. Ngiga da!

Tapsing?! Please read and try to know the facts. The Catholic Church is the biggest charitable institution in the world - expending billions of dollars in charitable works. Caritas, a Catholic charitable group, is in fact the biggest charitable group in the whole world in terms of charitable expenditures. Grabe na man sad na ka prejudiced imong gipanulti, sis.

Tell me, how should the priests get their living allowances? If some Protestant pastors require tithes, why see only the voluntary offerings given to priests? What happens to the 'love offerings' in your church? Nothing goes to the pastors? Who audit these pastors?


Quote from: n`gel on August 19, 2005, 11:40:05 PM
Dili ta magpakabuta. Dili ni sugo sa Ginoo. Sugo ni sa mga mamumuo sa simbahan.

At least, we are not as blind to the truth as you seemingly are.


Quote from: n`gel on August 19, 2005, 11:40:05 PM
Kung daghan untang pobre tabangan, mo-ubos ang pagsala sa pagpangawat, pagpatay, daghan kaayo ang kausaban unta. That goes to the poor who really need our help, naa may uban dili angay tabangan kay magsalig man.

Why don't you sell your belongings and give it to the poor? You have no right to grumble if you yourself have not sold all of your belongings and given the money to the poor. Plastikan lang ba?


Quote from: n`gel on August 19, 2005, 11:40:05 PM
Diri sa gawas, daghan kaayong mga organizations, naay uban religious organizations, nga mo sponsor ug orphanage. Tinuod ni, mga orphanages sa atoa internationally supported. Pero dili kwarta gikan sa Katoliko mga bai. La man ko gaingon nga wala gyud silay ingon ana noh? Considering their wealth, tapsing² lang ang ilang pagawas sa kwarta. Ka imagine ba mo pila ka milyon ning kwarta akong pasabot?

Pila man? Tagai ko ug pruweba ha?! Ayaw nang tinumutumo.


Quote from: n`gel on August 19, 2005, 11:40:05 PM
This is one change in our country that will make a difference. Ang pagmata sa hypnosis sa simbahan, and trace the beginnings of the one TRUE church, long before the Bible was ever compiled, panahon sa mga Apostles ni Jesus, ug panahon ni Jesus mismo.

Ug mao ni atong matugkad sa atong pagpangita sa kamatuoran, molambo tang tanan, kay mao ni tinuod nga grasya.

Prove, sis, that there is hypnosis happening. Ayaw pagtumutumo.

Bro, thank you for "rebuking" in here. But I took a step back and I regretted trying to seemingly lecture her like she's a child on "peripheral issues" and heterodoxy. That was rude, and I have no excuse.

But if I were to reckon on who is more unbiased of the two of you, then I would say it will be the very moderator who had a hand in banning me.

Sipsip? You can look at it that way. But I'm surprised that you're very quick to call all that "heresy".

[s.n.m.p.]

Hey, as Von-x! has pointed out, the assertions of the RCC and INK on salvation are somewhat similar. I have question though do you reckon Mahatma Gandhi will be saved? Or will he be sentenced to eternal damnation? (Rom. 2: 10 - 12 )

I watch shows in CCTN saying that "it is possible for non Catholics to be saved" but knowing the implications of the catechism? It seems to deny that verse in Romans Chapter Two I stated above.

Outside the church there is salvation if those people really dont know about the truth. I mean wa gyud sila kadungog sa maayong balita nga ang Katoliko mao ang tinood nga simbahan.

Pero kadtong mga tawo nga nahibalo na unya wa gyud maminaw hinonoa gikastigo noun ang katoliko, aw para sa katoliko di gyud to sila maluwas kay unsaon man nila pag kaluwas nga ila mang gisalikway ang kamatouran.

[dacs]

ah.. gamay lng ha. it's not really the church who decided on what books should be placed on the bible. maybe sa Catholic Bible. Obvious. click nalng ani nga link.. hehe!

http://www.bible.com/bible/Bathorty.html

but if you still prefer that the chuch is the authority.. then that's your choice.. we all have! Savvy!

GB!

There is a problem you have to face. Billy Graham, a noted Protestant tele-evangelist, admit the fact that, without the Catholic Church, there would be no Bible. Click here to read that part of his book entitled Where We Got the Bible : Our Debt to the Catholic Church. James Akin, a former Evangelical who converted to Catholicism, defended also the deuterocanonicals here.

Let us go to your link. If you read it, you will find that the author stated that the Bible is divided into two parts: the Old Testament with 39 books and the New Testament with 27 books. Where did she get these numbers? Obviously not in the Bible. Nowhere in any of its books are the books that is in the Bible listed. The word covenant is very different from the word contract. The former is the exchange of persons; the latter, the exchange of goods and/or services. Covenant demands such affirmation : I am yours and you are mine. That is how Catholics understand covenant, and that is why they call marriage a covenant. Civil authorities may refer to such agreement as marriage contract - the very reason why civil marriages can be dissolved.

The article also follows the canon of the Council of Jamnia around 90 A.D. which is a council of Jews - not of Christians. Are we still bound to the decision of Jewish teachers and scholars? No. The Bible is clear on that when it disallow the circumcision of new convert according to Jewish laws. So, why does Protestants follow the canon of the Jews?

You can read Catholic articles on the canon of the Old Testament and the New Testament books by clicking the respective underlined words.

[dacs]

Bro, thank you for "rebuking" in here. But I took a step back and I regretted trying to seemingly lecture her like she's a child on "peripheral issues" and heterodoxy. That was rude, and I have no excuse.

But if I were to reckon on who is more unbiased of the two of you, then I would say it will be the very moderator who had a hand in banning me.

Sipsip? You can look at it that way. But I'm surprised that you're very quick to call all that "heresy".

Sorry, bro, but I never lectured the girl/moderator. I pointed out facts and called her attention to check it. The problem would be if what I have posted will be read with anger. I ask proofs for every assertions she has forwarded 'cause she just stated things without linking me to data I can check. I am open to that. As I have stated, I am also willing to learn how the 'other side' argue and the support it has for its argument.

The assertion about the charitable expenditures I have already dealt when the now-defunct www.usc-ece.com forum was still operational. I have provided a link there to the data provided by the United Nations. As you may have notice during our exchanges, I always try to provide reference data for your convenience.