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  1. #331

    Default Re: RELIGION....(part 2)


    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Bunal
    Your history is biased...
    But your history is just plain FALSE. You have not been able to offer a shred of evidence to back up your fantasies.

    Even before John penned the last book in Patmos, almost all of the congregations had COPIES of the sacred documents, but of course this wasn't without some confusion with other so-called epistles because apostates have already arose...
    In other words, they DID NOT have an authoritative nor accurate canon at all! If such Scripture is the "word of God", then how is it that such egregious errors are in them? You just shot yourself in the foot.

    (and mind you, these congregations were autonomous - to Rome; one can be sure of that.
    If you imply they were totally independent, you're wrong again. There was ONE Church, Holy and Apostolic. All these other local churches were part of the one Church and they ALL recognized the primacy of the See of Peter.

    Ignatius of Antioch was the first to introduce these teachings of heterodox, most of them accorded to the earliest beliefs of "real presence" in the bread of the altar.... His authority didn't necessarily come from Peter.
    But he had NO PERSONAL AUTHORITY to define Scripture or define doctrine. That's why his teachings had to comply with those of the Church for it to be doctrinal.

    You are totally ignorant of history. St. Ignatiius in AD 110 already recognized the authority of the Papacy:

    "Ignatius . . . to the church also which holds the presidency, in the location of the
    country of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of blessing, worthy of praise,
    worthy of success, worthy of sanctification, and, because you hold the presidency in love, named
    after Christ and named after the Father" (Letter to the Romans 1:1 [A.D. 110]).

    "You [the church at Rome] have envied no one, but others you have taught. I desire only that what
    you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force
    " (ibid., 3:1).


    St. Irenaeus also recognized the authority and primacy of the the Church in Rome, and acknowledged that all local churches were subject to it:

    "But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we
    shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through
    blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions
    of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the
    two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes
    down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior
    origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the
    faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition"
    (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [A.D. 189])


    It was always known as the Catholic Church, but because of Pope Leo IX, she was known as the Roman Catholic Church in 1094 A.D.
    No. That was not really a well-known name of the Church until the Anglicans used it to differentiate themselves (as supposedly the "true" catholics).

    But then that is just semantics really. What makes the Church the same one as the one founded by Christ is the unbroken chain of formal authority passed on to the successors of the Apostles, and also the doctrinal consistency (adherence to the teachings of Christ through His Apostles). No other church can claim that. Only the Catholic Church can truthfully do so.

    it's role as Helper and intercessor in general (Christ and the Spirit are interchangeable) have mostly been transferred to a highly exlated Roman Catholic version of "Mary", one of whose titles are Mediatrix of Graces.
    We have to call a spade a spade here. You are truly a LIAR. You deliberately MISREPRESENT the role of Mary in the teachings of the Church. You cannot name even a single official/doctrirnal Church document equating Mary to the Holy Spirit. Not a single one! Your allegations are FALSE. You are LYING.

    You should know better than to peddle such easily-exposed lies in this forum. As Dacs asked, have you no shame? And you call yourself a Christian? What HYPOCRISY!

    Again, this is on the premise that I disagree that the Roman Church has derived it's authority from the apostles.
    A premise with no evidence whatsoever to support it! We have shown time and again that the local Christian churches were never doctrinally or formally independent from the Papacy, which already existed from the beginning in the primacy of Peter.

  2. #332

    Default Re: RELIGION....(part 2)

    We have to call a spade a spade here. You are truly a LIAR. You deliberately MISREPRESENT the role of Mary in the teachings of the Church. You cannot name even a single official/doctrirnal Church document equating Mary to the Holy Spirit. Not a single one! Your allegations are FALSE. You are LYING.
    I don't.... equating Mary with the Spirit Is that all? Equating Mary with CHRIST is more like it! I'm sure you know very well the approved teachings of Alphonsus Liggouri, or even the Messianic attributes ascribed to this false "Mary":

    Fountain of Life
    Hope
    Advocate
    Mediatrix of Grace
    Co-Redemptrix
    Mother of Good Counsel
    Mother of Perpetual Help
    Refuge
    High Priestess
    Queen of Heaven and Earth
    Lady of All Nations
    Bright Morning Star
    Sovereign Mistress (Gudalupe)

    and so on.... you CAN'T deny that those titles belong to Christ. Take note these aren't just general qualities that the Christ-like will share IN CHRIST, remember Christ assigned to his followers "You are the Light of the world" but these titles are different... they are MESSIANIC ATTRIBUTES that belong to God.

    I am NOT lying, also the church couldn't know any better than to follow any entity who claims to be appearing as that person (Mary) or Jesus for that matter because as prophecied these false Christs will deceive God's elect (Matt. 24: 24 - 28 ) and if that's too vague John has written that Babylon would enthrone the BEAST. Don't even throw us off about the possibilities of John eluding to the middle east or pagan Rome when he writes "Babylon"... (Rev. 17 - 18 )

  3. #333

    Default Re: RELIGION....(part 2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Bunal
    I don't.... equating Mary with the Spirit Is that all? Equating Mary with CHRIST is more like it! I'm sure you know very well the approved teachings of Alphonsus Liggouri,


    You are again out of your wits, bro.* St. Alphonsus Liguori's writing style is common to his days - the times he lived.* Shakespeare's writing would be a 'little weird' if it was written during our times.* May I remind you, bro, that saints can be in error in some things which has not been expounded and understood more thoroughly and formally during their lifetime.* Yet, that will not disqualify them to be saints.* Only when someone teaches knowingly and willingly something contrary to the deposit of Christian faith will the sainthood be out of reach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Bunal
    or even the Messianic attributes ascribed to this false "Mary":

    Fountain of Life
    Hope
    Advocate
    Mediatrix of Grace
    Co-Redemptrix
    Mother of Good Counsel
    Mother of Perpetual Help
    Refuge
    High Priestess
    Queen of Heaven and Earth
    Lady of All Nations
    Bright Morning Star
    Sovereign Mistress (Gudalupe)

    and so on.... you CAN'T deny that those titles belong to Christ.
    What proof do you have that these are messianic attributes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Bunal
    Take note these aren't just general qualities that the Christ-like will share IN CHRIST, remember Christ assigned to his followers "You are the Light of the world" but these titles are different... they are MESSIANIC ATTRIBUTES that belong to God.
    Please quote any historical evidence that these attributes belongs to the Messiah.

    For me, here are the witness of the early Christians:

    St. Proclus (died 446 or 447)
    “Let the woman haste hither, for the woman shows not the tree of death, but brings forth the tree of life:* the virgins...the mothers also, for the Virgin Mother has amended the tree of disobedience by the tree of life.* The female *** is no longer in execration, for it has obtained whereby it shall surpass even the angels in glory.* Eve has been healed...and Mary is venerated (adored), because she has become mother and handmaid, cloud and chamber, and ark of the Lord....For this cause let us say to her:* Blessed art thou amongst women, who alone hast healed the grief of Eve; who alone hast borne the world’s price” (Orat.iv.and v. In Natal. Dom. P.G. Tom. 65, p.710) (Blessed Virgin, p. 5.

    St. Ephrem (c. 306-373)
    “With the rib that was drawn out of Adam, the wicked one drew out the heart of Adam.* There arose from the rib [i.e., Mary], a hidden power which cut off Satan as Dagon.* For in that ark [Mary again], a book was hidden that cried and proclaimed the Conqueror.* There was then a mystery revealed, in that Dagon was brought low in his own place of refuge.* The accomplishment came after the type, in that the wicked one was brought low wherein he trusted....Fulfilled was the mystery.* Blessed is He who by the true Lamb redeemed us, and destroyed our destroyer as He did Dagon” (S. Ephrem, Rhythm iii, On the Nativity, Morris, p.20) ((Blessed Virgin, p. 66).

    Chrysippus
    “An ark truly royal, an ark most precious is the ever-Virgin Mother of God, an ark which received the treasure of entire sanctification.* Not that ark wherein were all kinds of animals, as in the ark of Noe, which escaped the shipwreck of the whole drowning world.* Not that ark in which were the tables of stone, as in the ark that journeyed in company with Israel throughout the desert; but an ark whose architect and inhabitant, pilot and merchant, companion of the way, and leader, was the Creator of all creatures, all which He bears in Himself, but by all is not contained” (Chrysippus, Orat. de laudib. Deip. (Blessed Virgin, p. 74).

    St. Hippolytus (c. 170-c. 236)
    “At that time, the Savior coming from the Virgin, the Ark, brought forth His own Body into the world from that Ark, which was gilded with pure gold within by the Word, and without by the Holy Ghost; so that the truth was shown forth, and the Ark was manifested....And the Savior came into the world bearing the incorruptible Ark, that is to say His own body” (S. Hippolytus, In Dan.vi., Patr. Gr., Tom. 10, p. 64 (Blessed Virgin, p. 77).

    St. Ambrose (c. 339-397)
    “The prophet David danced before the Ark.* Now what else should we say the Ark was but holy Mary?* The Ark bore within it the tables of the Testament, but Mary bore the Heir of the same Testament itself.* The former contained in it the Law, the latter the Gospel.* The one had the voice of God, the other His Word.* The Ark, indeed, was radiant within and without with the glitter of gold, but holy Mary shone within and without with the splendor of virginity.* The one was adorned with earthly gold, the other with heavenly” (Serm. xlii. 6, Int. Opp., S. Ambrosii) (Blessed Virgin, p. 77).

    St. Cyril (315-387?)
    “The Ark would be the type and image of Christ : for if we look back to the way of the Incarnation of the Only-begotten, we shall see that it is in the temple of the Virgin, as in an ark that the Word of God took up His abode. For in Him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, as the Scripture saith. But the testimonies in the ark were the word of God, and the wood of it was imperishable, and with pure and choicest gold was it beautified within and without” (St. Cyril, De ador. In Spir. Et Verit, p. 293, St. Maximus of Turin and other Fathers apply the Ark of the Covenant to the Blessed Virgin Mary) (Blessed Virgin, p. 76).

    St. Athanasius (c. 296-373)
    “Be mindful of us, most holy virgin, who after childbirth didst remain virgin; and grant to us for these small words great gifts from the riches of they graces, O thou full of grace. Accept them as though they were true and adequate praises in they honor; and if there is in them any virtue and any praise, we offer them as a hymn from ourselves and from all creatures to thee, full of grace, Lady, Queen, Mistress, Mother of God, and Ark of sanctification” (Orat. In Deip. Annuntiat, nn. 13, 14. Int. Opp. S. Athanasii) (Blessed Virgin, p. 80).

    St. Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296-373; the main defender of the Trinity and the deity of Christ against the 2nd century Arian heretics.)
    * * * * * “O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O (Ark of the) Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which Divinity resides.” Homily of the Papyrus of Turin.

    St. Dionysius (died 264)
    “As Christ our priest was not chosen by hand of man, so neither was His tabernacle framed by men, but was established by the Holy Ghost; and by the power of God is that tabernacle protected, to be had in everlasting remembrance, Mary, God’s Virgin Mother” (S. Dionysius of Alexandria, Respons. ad Quoest. v. Pauli Samos) (Blessed Virgin, p. 81).

    St. Gregory Thaumaturgus (c. 213-c. 270)* * *
    “The ark is verily the holy Virgin, gilded within and without, who received the treasure of universal sanctification.* Arise, O Lord, from the Father’s bosom, to raise up again the ruined race of our first parent” (Orat. in Deip. Annunciat.* Int. Opp. S. Greg. Thaumaturg) (Blessed Virgin, p. 89).

    Another translation renders this: “Let us chant the melody which has been taught us by the inspired harp of David, and say, “Arise, O Lord, into Thy rest; Thou, and the Ark of Thy sanctuary.” For the holy Virgin is in truth an Ark, wrought with gold both within and without, that has received the whole treasury of the sanctuary.

    St. Gregory Thaumaturgus*
    “The tenor of his message was as follows.* I am moved by My compassion to descend to earth in order to recover the lost Adam.* Sin made him to decay who was made to My image, and hath corrupted the work of My hands, and obscured the beauty which I formed....Go therefore to the Virgin Mary.* Pass thou on to the animate city whereof the prophet spake these words:* Glorious things are said of thee, O city of God. Go, then, to My rational paradise, to the Gate of the East, to the place of sojourn that is worthy of My Word, that hath appeared as a heaven upon earth ; go to the light cloud, and announce to it the shower of My coming ; go to the sanctuary prepared for Me, to the hall of the Incarnation, to the pure chamber of My generation according to the flesh. Speak in the ears of My rational ark, so as to prepare for Me the accesses of hearing. But disturb not nor vex the soul of Mary. Manifest thyself in such wise as becomes that sanctuary, and salute her first with the voice of gladness” (Homilies, il, ii., iii. On the Annunciation, Int. Opp. S. Greg. Thaum., 5th century) (Blessed Virgin, p. 123).

    St. Zeno (c. 450-491)*
    “God, the Son of God, at the time appointed, concealing for the while His majesty, comes forth from His ethereal throne, and prepares for Himself a tabernacle in the temple of the predestined Virgin; wherein He hides Himself, about to become man; and there whilst preserving what He was, He meditates to be what He was not.* Mingles thus with human flesh He forms Himself an infant.* The womb of Mary swells forth with pride, not by conjugal gift, but by faith; by the Word, not by seed.* She knows not the tediousness of the ten months” (Lib. Ii., Tractatus viii. Et ix. Pat. Lat. Tom. 11, pp. 413-417) (Blessed Virgin, p. 126).

    St. Methodius (815-8885)
    “Hence it was that the Ark of God removed from the stable at Bethlehem . . . and rested upon the mountains of Zion; and receiving into her pure bosom as upon a lofty throne-such as transcends the nature of man-the Monarch of all, she presented Him there to God the Father-the Son joint-partner of His throne, and inseparable from Him-together with that pure and undefiled flesh which He had from her assumed.... She goes up therefore to the temple, she who was more exalted than the temple, clothed with a double glory—the glory, I mean, of undefiled virginity, and that of ineffable child-bearing, the benediction of the Law, and the sanctification of grace....
    “Tremendous, verily, is the mystery connected with thee, O Mother Virgin, thou spiritual throne, glorified and made worthy of God. . . . And the lintels of the doors, says the prophet, were raised at the voice of them that cried. By which is signified the veil of the temple overshadowing before the ark of the Covenant which typified thee.... For if to the ark, which was the image and type of thy sanctity, such honor was paid by God, that to no one but to the priestly order was the access to it open, or ingress allowed to behold it-the veil separating it off, and keeping the vestibule as that of a queen—how great, and what sort of veneration is due to thee from us, who are of all the least, to thee who art indeed a Queen ; to thee who art in truth the living Ark of God, the Law-giver; to thee who hast verily become the heaven that contains Him who can be contained of none?” (St. Methodius, Orat. de Simeone et Anna ii. Patr. Graec. Tom. 18, p. 332. (Blessed Virgin, p. 153).

    St. Theodotus of Ancyra
    * “O Dove, all-white and innocent!* O holy temple of our hopes, wherein dwells all sanctity and magnificence” (Hom. iv. In S. Deip. et Simeon.* Ib., p. 1395) (Blessed Virgin, p. 223).

    St. Ambrose (c. 339-397)
    “For this cause did the prophet David dance before the Ark.* And what shall we say is the Ark, but holy Mary?* For as the Ark bore within it the tables of the Testament, so Mary bore the Heir of the same Testament:* it preserved within it the Law, she the Gospel; it had the voice, she the word, of God.* The Ark, moreover, was radiant within and without with the shining of gold, whilst holy Mary gleamed within and without with the splendor of virginity; it was adorned with earthly gold, she with heavenly” (Serm. xlii., Int. Opp. S. Ambros.* The author is uncertain, but there is nothing to show that he is not S. Ambrose.* Ed. Maurin,. vol. iv. p. 551) (Blessed Virgin, p. 201).

    St. Jerome (c. 345-420)
    “Behold one in truth, the handmaid of the Lord.* Holy she is, in whom is no guile, all simplicity....The spouse of Christ is the ark of the covenant, within and without overlaid with gold, a keeper of the law of the Lord. As in the ark there was nothing but the tables of the Testament, so too in thee no one from outside should be thought of.* Over this propitiatory, as though upon the Cherubim, the Lord is pleased to sit....The Apostle thus defines a virgin, that she should be holy in body and in spirit... (Epist. Xxii., Ad Eustoch. Nn. 18, 19, 21, 24) (Blessed Virgin, p. 216).

    St. Ephrem (c. 306-373)
    “O Virgin Mother of God, Gate of heaven, and Ark, in thee I have a secure salvation.* Save me out of the pure mercy (δωρεάυ, gratis), O Lady” (Precat.* ix. Opp. Gr. et Lat. Tom. iii. P. 522) (Blessed Virgin, p. 294).

    St. Ephrem
    “Concentration of the hierarchies, crown of all saints and virgins, approached for thy exceeding brightness and splendor, censer of God, lamp most bright, urn must beautiful containing the heavenly manna; table bearing the written law for men, true ark, book of writing most divine, princess, of all most prudent and wise, light-giving Virgin, most holy consoler and directress of all, most sacred Maid. . . (Is. Xxv. 9, vii. 16) (Blessed Virgin, p. 297)

    St. Ephrem
    “Hail, most tranquil haven, and most ardently longed for rescuer of the tempest-tossed from billows and storms.* Hail, succor of those in danger.* Hail, resurrection of our first father Adam.* Hail, sweet liberty.* Hail, parent of all.* Hail, fountain of grace, and of all the solace.* Hail, refuge and hospice of sinners.* Hail, mercy-seat of the afflicted.* Hail, place of sanctuary in Jerusalem.* Hail, most glorious throne of our Creator.* Hail, most illustrious splendor of the age.* Hail, hope of all the good who suffer under affliction.* Hail, sweet solace and protection of the converted.* Hail, of men and women alike Queen and Patroness.* Hail, best mediatress between God and man.* (Threni B. V. M. Opp. Gr. et Lat. Tom. iii. p.575 sq) (Blessed Virgin, p. 29

    St. Ephrem
    “The woman ministered before the man, because he is her head.* Joseph rose to minister before His Lord, who was in Mary.* The priest ministered before Thy Ark by reason of Thy holiness.* Moses carried the tables of stone which the Lord wrote, and Joseph bare about the pure Tablet in whom the Son of the Creator was dwelling.* The tables had ceased, because the world was filled with Thy doctrine” (Serm. xi., Natali Domini, Opp. Syr. Tom. ii. p. 429. Morris, pp. 51, 52.) (Blessed Virgin, p. 383).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Bunal
    I am NOT lying, also the church couldn't know any better than to follow any entity who claims to be appearing as that person (Mary) or Jesus for that matter because as prophecied these false Christs will deceive God's elect (Matt. 24: 24 - 28 ) and if that's too vague John has written that Babylon would enthrone the BEAST. Don't even throw us off about the possibilities of John eluding to the middle east or pagan Rome when he writes "Babylon"... (Rev. 17 - 18 )
    Question : Is Rome Christian at that time John was writing the book of Revelation?* Who is throwing off who, bro?

  4. #334

    Default Re: RELIGION....(part 2)

    What proof do you have that these are messianic attributes?
    I understand the implications of the teachings regarding your Co-Redemptrix Queen, despite the Roman church's emphasis that the devotionals: Latria, Dulia and Hyperdulia should be Christ centered.....

    And wait a minute! What you posted! The implications of those! The hidden meaning. That's proof enough that these are Messianic attributes PER SE.

    Question : Is Rome Christian at that time John was writing the book of Revelation?* Who is throwing off who, bro?
    Hey! I won't argue here, but that's NOT a question that will trap me either, because Rome being the way it was in the context of that time - it eventually DEVOURED the earth (Daniel 7: 23 ) and now it is indeed a very powerful institution..... Rev. 18: 18 there for you.

    Can you say that Rome had a grip on virtually all the ends of the earth at that time? .... NOT yet.... but it does now. Daniel was right. John was right.

    What I'm saying is, idolatrous paganism (condemned by the RCC) ..... questionable unorthodox doctrinals (in light of the Scriptures) .... what's the difference between the two? None.

    --------

    And also, thanks for taking the time to paste what you use as defense to the Marian dogma, but hey since when was this about the writing style of Alphonsus Liggouri and the people like him?

    Everything there; many of what you posted is what Ad Iesum Per Marian is about.

    This in itself is questionable.

  5. #335

    Default Re: RELIGION....(part 2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Bunal
    I don't.... equating Mary with the Spirit Is that all? Equating Mary with CHRIST is more like it!
    Still lying eh? Show me a single OFFICIAL CHURCH DOCUMENT containing DOCTRINE. You haven't! ZERO! ZILCH!

    Your entire argument falls flat on two counts:

    1. Liguori does NOT have the authority to define Church Doctrine.

    2. You are engaging in a logical error wherein you take the titles OUT OF CONTEXT and claim
    they apply to something (or someone) else other than what the author intended. This is distorting
    the meaning of the titles completely. For example, the word "advocate" can be used to refer to
    Christ and the Holy Spirit, but it can also be used to refer to ANYONE who intercedes on your behalf.
    In the case of Mary, she has a special place, but absolutely NOWHERE can you show in ANY
    CHURCH DOCUMENT that her finction as advocate has been declared equal to that opf Christ or
    the Holy Spirit.
    Thus, you have failed to show any evidence to back up your lies.

    In other words, these are YOUR PERSONAL MISINTERPRETATIONS. Garbage.

    You are MISREPRESENTING the teachings of the Church and you know it. What a hypocrite! Is this the kind of morality that you get form your kind of "christianity?" Well, the fruit of your "faith" is a pack of lies. And that does much violence to the cause of Christ.

    It was precisely persons like you that scripture refers to when it says that certain persons will twist scripture to their own ruin!

    (2 Peter, 3:16)
    "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction."

    Another translation:
    "Look upon our Lord's patience as salvation, just as our dear brother Paul, with the wisdom that God gave him, wrote you to do, speaking of it as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which ignorant, unsteadfast people twist to their own ruin, just as they do the rest of the scriptures."


    And wait a minute! What you posted! The implications of those! The hidden meaning. That's proof enough that these are Messianic attributes PER SE.
    Wrong again! The hidden meaning? What hogwash! These are meanings that YOU are creating, NOT what the Church has taught. You are truly a liar, putting words in the Church's mouth. Remember the commandment about bearing false witness? You bear that sin on your shoulders.

  6. #336

    Default Re: RELIGION....(part 2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Bunal
    I understand the implications of the teachings regarding your Co-Redemptrix Queen, despite the Roman church's emphasis that the devotionals: Latria, Dulia and Hyperdulia should be Christ centered.....

    And wait a minute! What you posted! The implications of those! The hidden meaning. That's proof enough that these are Messianic attributes PER SE.


    Again, you show us no proof. *It's like we are in a boxing match and you talking in your dreams. *You offer no support for your claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Bunal
    Hey! I won't argue here, but that's NOT a question that will trap me either, because Rome being the way it was in the context of that time - it eventually DEVOURED the earth (Daniel 7: 23 ) and now it is indeed a very powerful institution..... Rev. 18: 18 there for you.

    Can you say that Rome had a grip on virtually all the ends of the earth at that time? .... NOT yet.... but it does now. Daniel was right. John was right.
    ... and it would be easy for us to squash the HB 3773 (?). *You seem to be talking of a world where there is no more abortion, no more pornography, no more gay marriages. *Again, you are talking in your dreams.

    Wake up, bro!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Bunal
    What I'm saying is, idolatrous paganism (condemned by the RCC) ..... questionable unorthodox doctrinals (in light of the Scriptures) .... what's the difference between the two? None.
    Your assumptions with no historical nor biblical support. *You aren't going 'un-biblical' on me, right?


    Sweet dreams, bro.

  7. #337

    Default Re: RELIGION....(part 2)

    Quote Originally Posted by cardinal bunal
    What I'm saying is, idolatrous paganism (condemned by the RCC) ..... questionable unorthodox doctrinals (in light of the Scriptures) .... what's the difference between the two? None
    There's no difference between those and your irrational misinterpretations of scripture either. You likewise make up your own personal misinterpretations of the teachings of the Church too. What lies! What hypocrisy!

  8. #338

    Default Re: RELIGION....(part 2)

    Your assumptions with no historical nor biblical support.* You aren't going 'un-biblical' on me, right?
    Historical. Those teachings are old. But it doesn't make them true..... I don't need to quote verses, there are a plethora of them that oppose the teachings of the RCC.

    ... and it would be easy for us to squash the HB 3773 (?).* You seem to be talking of a world where there is no more abortion, no more pornography, no more gay marriages.* Again, you are talking in your dreams.
    That's why God wrote for us His laws and commands (Deut. 29: 29 ) in a book that is complete (Isaiah 34: 16 ) ...... and despite our world being marred by sin he offers us salvation. We can be SURE of it. While NOT everything is chronicled in The Books we can PROFESS it (Jn 20: 35, 1 Jn 5: 13 ) The church through whom He speaks? it existed then, it's around today.

    But despite the hard work of the apostles there was a time when many were eventually led astray,(2 Cor. 11: 3 - 4 ) ironically also misled by many people AMONG the assembly of believers.

    While many things have passed away, we still have His Word to hold on to. (Matt. 24: 35 ) Nothing else is part of that but The Books.

  9. #339

    Default Re: RELIGION....(part 2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Bunal
    Your assumptions with no historical nor biblical support.* You aren't going 'un-biblical' on me, right?
    Historical. Those teachings are old. But it doesn't make them true..... I don't need to quote verses, there are a plethora of them that oppose the teachings of the RCC.
    Your teachings are new - but it doesn't make them true. In fact and in principle, your teachings are false.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Bunal
    ... and it would be easy for us to squash the HB 3773 (?).* You seem to be talking of a world where there is no more abortion, no more pornography, no more gay marriages.* Again, you are talking in your dreams.
    That's why God wrote for us His laws and commands (Deut. 29: 29 ) in a book that is complete (Isaiah 34: 16 ) ...... and despite our world being marred by sin he offers us salvation. We can be SURE of it. While NOT everything is chronicled in The Books we can PROFESS it (Jn 20: 35, 1 Jn 5: 13 ) The church through whom He speaks? it existed then, it's around today.
    Deuteronomy 2:29? What Bible are you reading, bro?

    Isaiah 34:16? Are you sure you read this? Isaiah 34:16 is talking aboutt the list of all God's creatures (contextually, God is referring to the Israelites). Bro, you sure have a very wrong way to looking at a context.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Bunal
    But despite the hard work of the apostles there was a time when many were eventually led astray,(2 Cor. 11: 3 - 4 ) ironically also misled by many people AMONG the assembly of believers.
    Indeed, bro. I hope to gather them back to the one fold with one shepherd (of whom Christ prayed for in Luke 22:31-32 and who was commissioned to feed Christ's lambs and sheeps in John 21:15-17)

  10. #340

    Default Re: RELIGION....(part 2)

    When someone says he can be SURE of his salvation I think he is laboring on a wrong premise. If thats the case even if I am a criminal a murderer like Hitler as long as I believe that Jesus is my PERSONAL savior then I can be sure of salvation. Never mind if I kill millions of people like the Jews.

    Thats a ripoff.

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