The Roman Catholic Church~ Questions

[seven_segment]

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Pope John Paul II...in behalf of the Catholic Church....

and I admire him for doing that...

AMEN!

[munzter666]

the usual initial reactions against topics such as this are always , its anti-catholics or its a propaganda or plainly that author hates (insert name of religion here)...and the list goes on and on

but hey, did anybody bothered to subscribe or read up(regarding the topic) before reacting??

let me make this clear, i did not start this thread to comit nor promote those mentioned above. those are not the objective
this is mainly to discuss relevant ideas, views and criticisms regarding such issues with an open mind.

Everyhting has had dark past... even the simplest and innocent looking person. Though some would go beyond digging the past in order to destroy what is in the future. just my 2 cents worth.

and before bibledude(y'know who) shows up here, he'd probably tell you the bad seeds bad fruit analogy/parable.hehe

the faith of the RC will no be trifled with this..

please do keep the faith.
in case you people are wondering, this is from Perry Marshall...who happens to be a well known/(notorious?) online marketer...in case you want to discredit any of his works, nasa inyo na po yan.haha

***Understanding does not necessarily entail Agreement***

here's part 1

Lie #1:

'If you live a moral life, deny yourself pleasure,
follow the prescribed rituals and give us enough money,
you'll have a decent shot at being accepted by God.'

~~~

Remember that scene near the end of the Wizard of Oz,
when Toto is pulling back the curtain? The sound system
is bellowing, 'Pay no attention to that man behind the
curtain. THE GREAT AND POWERFUL OZ HAS SPOKEN!'
And There's a little man behind the controls, talking into
a microphone.

Kind of reminds you of certain religious institutions,
doesn't it? Short little insecure men, hiding behind
names and titles, sending everyone on Mission Impossible
while they themselves indulge in secret sin. The
preacher stands in front of thousands and shakes his
finger. Nobody else knows that he had a stripper
in his hotel room last night.

Somebody tells you, 'Here, follow all these rules and be
the best person you possibly can, and you might have a shot
at being accepted by God someday.' Then they string you along
and get you under their thumb.

No wonder people are cynical.

Well it's no accident that Jesus' own biggest enemies 2000
years ago were precisely those same self-righteous hypocrites.
When Jesus showed up, they were terrified of losing their cushy
jobs and political clout. Eventually they murdered him for
exposing their racket.

True spirituality had been buried in a big pile of bureaucracy,
and the religious establishment used it to gain leverage. To have
power over people, to get priority seating in expensive restaurants,
and to line their pockets with cash.

They had everyone thinking that pleasing God was a never-ending
performance marathon.

Well Jesus painted a totally different picture. He told this
story:

'Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a holy man and
the other a tax collector.

The holy man stood and prayed, 'God, I thank you that I am not
like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like
this lousy tax collector. I fast twice a week, I give tithes
of all that I get.'

But the tax collector, standing far away, would not even lift
up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be
merciful to me a sinner!'

Jesus explains: 'I tell you, this tax collector went home
forgiven, rather than the holy man; for every one who praises
himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be praised.'

Beware of the proud holy man who hangs a bunch of rules
around your neck.

That humble tax collector had it right. He was doing the only
thing you and I can do to be accepted by God. He just asked, with
humility.
================

hmmmmm, your thoughts would be much appreciated.

[amingb]

correct, the dark past gave way to the reformation. Goes to show that God will not allow his church to be dominated by dark minded people.

Wala pajud cguro ma complete ang prohpesy ni Daniel regarding sa Fourth Kingdom na ma destroy and the Fifth Kingdom will reign forever.

I think kana nga Kingdom is existing today wich is the Vatican nga remnants of the Roman Empire.

[necrotic freak]

The Deposit of Faith of the Catholic Church consists of Holy Scripture, Holy Tradition, and the Magisterium in conjunction with our Holy Father the Pope. You can equate it to a three legged stool, with each leg having its own specific function. This three legged stool is also firmly implanted on the solid rock of the Catholic Church. See Matt 16:18, John 1:42, Eph 2:20, 1Pet 2:4-8

A three legged stool has strength, is sturdy, stable, steadfast and stalwart. That is all well and good. However, what happens when you cut off one leg? The stool becomes unstable and falls over.

During the Protestant reformation, the reformers separated themselves from one of those three legs of stability. They rejected the Pope and the Magisterium, the teaching authority of the Catholic Church. They purposely chopped off one leg of the stool, and by doing so, they lost all authority. They lost the arbitrator of disputes between opposing viewpoints regarding faith and morals.
See Matt 18:15-18.
They cut themselves off from the Foundation and the Pillar of Truth which is the Catholic Church. See 1Tim 3:15.
They also made for themselves an unstable stool, one which was shaky and was easily subject to tipping over and shattering.

Since the reformers lost all authority, to whom, or to what, could they turn to fill the void? They turned to the only resource they had, the Holy Bible, a product of the Catholic Church by the way.In so doing, they declared that the Bible was the sole source of authority, and they proceeded to fabricate a false man made tradition called "Sola Scriptura", or "Bible Alone", in order to promulgate it.

Now, throughout Scripture, there is scattered yet a second leg of the Catholic Deposit of Faith to which the reformers could not lay claim. It is Holy Tradition, Apostolic Tradition, GOD's Traditions for which the Church was commanded to keep, and which she had already protected and preserved, for almost 1500 years by the time of the reformation.
See Psa 44:1, Isa 40:8, ***Isa 59:21, ***John 15:20, Acts 20:35, 1 Cor 2:13, ***1Cor 11:2,
Phil 2:16, ***Phil 4:9, ***2 Thess 2:15. ***2Tim 1:13-14, ***2Tim 2:2, ***2Tim 3:14,
***2Tim 4:3, and 1Pet 1:25.

It is only man-made traditions which are condemned by Holy Scripture.
See ***Matt 15:2-9, ***Mark 7:3-13, ***1Cor 2:13, ***Col 2:8, ***1Tim 1:4, and ***Tit 1:14

Reformers were forced to cut off yet a second leg from their stool. Now they had only one wobbly leg left to balance on, and balance they did not do for very long at all, not even for one year.

Since the Authority of the Magisterium for Bible interpretation was no longer available, the reformers made a fateful decision that would result in a disaster that grew so fast that they could no longer control it. They had decided that everyone could go his own way in Bible Interpretation. This was yet another man made tradition forbidden by Holy Scripture.
See ***Acts 8:26-40, ***2Pet 1:19-21, and ***2Pet 3:16.

The one legged stool fell to the ground and shattered into many pieces. Individual Interpretation of Holy Scripture immediately resulted in squabbles and splits in Protestantism which continue to this very day. In 1521, the same year that Martin Luther split from the Catholic Church, Thomas Munser split from Luther. By 1600 there were over 200 splits. By 1900, there were over 1000. Now there are over 33,800 splits in the Body of Christ. The splits are continuing to this very day with an estimated 3-5 new splits every week. In addition, all of the major Protestant sects are splitting within themselves. All of this madness was caused by the man-made false doctrines of Sola Scriptura and Individual Interpretation of Holy Scripture, both of which were started by the reformers.

The stool of Protestantism is a shambles. It has shattered into thousands of pieces, and there is no one in Protestantism who has the authority to put the pieces together again. A stool needs three legs to stand tall. It cannot stand on one for long. As soon as the winds of change rise, it will topple over and shatter as did this one.

The Bible clearly says to keep the traditions of GOD and the Apostles, and to condemn the keeping of man-made traditions, as shown above. Isn't it strange that Protestantism condemns keeping and preserving all traditions by the Catholic Church, while at the same time, they in turn, follow two man-made traditions of their own making?

[amingb]

Nice post bro .. ana jud balos jud ... kinsa nag himo ana bro ? Vatican ? hehehee

That is why naay reformation kay the 2 Legged that is mention is Contradictual to 1 Leg. Apila ang orthodox ana bro kay 2 Legged raman na cla wala mana cla Magistrum.

The 2 legged mention is Clearly for the Reformist a Word of Men.

[rcruman]

The Bible clearly says to keep the traditions of GOD and the Apostles, and to condemn the keeping of man-made traditions, as shown above. Isn't it strange that Protestantism condemns keeping and preserving all traditions by the Catholic Church, while at the same time, they in turn, follow two man-made traditions of their own making?

do you mean to say that "these traditions" you're holding to are not written?
Or holding to ORAL TRADITION will make your church safe to create doctrine which is not in the bible.

Because if you really insist that there are traditions "ORAL" that being instructed by the apostles to be observed/followed it should be written in the bible, because:

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1 John 1:1-7

so according to the apostles not according to the cathecism.

6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
1 COrinthians 4:6

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:8-9

so ang QUESTION nako sa imoha, unsay makaluwas sa tawo GOSPEL or ORAL TRADITION?
asa sa bible nga ang Kaluwasan magagikan sa Oral Tradition?


PEace!

[geoseph]

I understand people are entitled to their opinions and "list of favorite things." People may be seen outside the context of their actions, and there need not be any final judgment on anyone.

I just hope this thread does not inspire another "my church is better than yours" debate. If that is the case, another istoryan may post something like "wala ka sa church ng lolo ko." =)

[necrotic freak]

do you mean to say that "these traditions" you're holding to are not written?
Or holding to ORAL TRADITION will make your church safe to create doctrine which is not in the bible.

Because if you really insist that there are traditions "ORAL" that being instructed by the apostles to be observed/followed it should be written in the bible, because:

its the Tradition from Jesus Christ and the Apostles to His Church before the bible was made.. its the 1500 yrs of Church Tradition BEFORE the Bible.. and was passed on to generation until present..

so according to the apostles not according to the cathecism.:

rephrase it rcruman. "Catechesm according to the apostles"

so ang QUESTION nako sa imoha, unsay makaluwas sa tawo GOSPEL or ORAL TRADITION?
asa sa bible nga ang Kaluwasan magagikan sa Oral Tradition?

unsay maka luwas? ang duha. Gospel and Tradition...

[rcruman]

rephrase it rcruman. "Catechesm according to the apostles"

really? cathecism according to the apostles?
how come wala lagi gisulat sa mga apostles ang inyo gifollow nga tradition og wala sila nagsulti bahin ani.
mao ni ingon ni Pablo:

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:8-9

unsay maka luwas? ang duha. Gospel and Tradition...

are you sure? kung ikaw or kamo ang pangutan-on mao ni inyo tubag pero kung si Pablo ang pangutan-on kay:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 1:16-17

again ako napud isulti pagbalik, you're tradition are things which is contradict and not being preached by the apostles.

Peace!

[necrotic freak]

really? cathecism according to the apostles?
how come wala lagi gisulat sa mga apostles ang inyo gifollow nga tradition og wala sila nagsulti bahin ani.
mao ni ingon ni Pablo:

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:8-9

catechism is a summary of what is being taught in the bible.. nya wala nuon gi follow sa bible? ang mga gago ra nag ingon ana rcruman!

are you sure? kung ikaw or kamo ang pangutan-on mao ni inyo tubag pero kung si Pablo ang pangutan-on kay:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 1:16-17

again ako napud isulti pagbalik, you're tradition are things which is contradict and not being preached by the apostles.

Yes im sure! ang mga gago ra ang nag ingon nga ni contradict!