The Island of Seven Asians and One American

[cebu-future]

---

Then how do you explain mainland CHINA?

-RODION

China is still a mess despite of their progress. To be realistic, the unemployment rate in China is terrible. Ang ila ra advantage is dako ila population which is good for investment ug dako sad ila country. Mao ra hehe.

[rodsky]

Okay then, so I guess the world will be a better place if you guys were running the show.

-RODION

[gareb]

could you please site some examples of unfair trading?

ever hear of how corn, and many other agricultural products, are being subsidized in the US? if not then i urge you to inquire about how the US wants the rest of the world to cut back on our subsidies and tariffs while it resists cutting back on its own.

and that's just on the agricultural side.

we've got cheap labor here not because of the us, but because we have low demand. they are consuming more natural resources because they have a high demand and we are exporting many of our resources because we have low demand for them. what shall we do with our copper if we dont export them? if we dont export our resources, it will cause a collapse in the business sector in our country because we are producing more than the demand. it will bring prices of commodities down which will result in bankruptcy of businesses which will then result to a hyper inflation. the developed countries also expierenced this before during the "great depression in the 1920's". There was a big surplus of skilled workers but the demand is dwindling down. mines are closing down because nobody is using their products anymore. bank exectives became fruit vendors because banks were bankrupt due to non payment of loans and unemployment skyrocketed the its highest level. the law of supply of demand should be followed because its not just a theory, but a law.

why we have cheap labor is a result of a multitude of circumstances acting on each other that cannot be attributed to one single factor. you have chronic underdevelopment of our industries and high unemployment, you have underskilled workers or workers whose skills do not match to those set of skills which are needed to industrialize the economy. you have an educational system that caters only to a set of skills that are deemed "popular" because it is "needed abroad"; a mindset that creates a "bleeding effect" for the best and the brightest of the country. and finally, you have a feeble (and in many circumstances absent) social protection that drives the price of labor down. the US has a more costly labor precisely because they have the opposite of what we have here.

the US also has raw materials. but guess what do they do with them? they use them and process them in their own industrial complexes, fueling their own economic development, creating finish products that are of many times the value of the raw materials that they are made up of. we also have raw materials on our own. but guess what do we do with them? we sell them.

the 1920's Great Depression wasn't just a result of not being able to utilize surplus labor. as a matter of fact that was the consequence of the lack of confidence in the market structure that caused factories and the whole industrial sector to close down. in effect, it was an aggravating circumstance to what was already a downward trend. to portray unutilized labor as the cause of the Great Depression would just be wrong.

the economy of korea, taiwan and malaysia also depended on the us but why are they successful today? all i can say that the us is not to be blamed by our misfortunes but ourselves.

that is just dead wrong.

if Taiwan, Malaysia and Korea did not nurture their infant industries in the past, protecting it from the ruinous 'liberalization' of trade that the US and certain European industrialized countries advocated then, the tiger economies of Southeast Asia would remain little cubs. they did not allow trans-national and multi-national corporations within their borders, or at least placed restrictions on them when they did participate inside, when their products and industries were still too weak to compete.

they are successful today precisely because their economic base is strong to begin with when they entered the global arena. we, on the other hand, entered the arena on the position of weakness.

[erwin_rommel]

ever hear of how corn, and many other agricultural products, are being subsidized in the US? if not then i urge you to inquire about how the US wants the rest of the world to cut back on our subsidies and tariffs while it resists cutting back on its own.

and that's just on the agricultural side.

havent heard that story. it must be from an opinion of a writer but i really dont buy opinions immediately unless i hear the other side of the story.

why we have cheap labor is a result of a multitude of circumstances acting on each other that cannot be attributed to one single factor. you have chronic underdevelopment of our industries and high unemployment, you have underskilled workers or workers whose skills do not match to those set of skills which are needed to industrialize the economy. you have an educational system that caters only to a set of skills that are deemed "popular" because it is "needed abroad"; a mindset that creates a "bleeding effect" for the best and the brightest of the country. and finally, you have a feeble (and in many circumstances absent) social protection that drives the price of labor down. the US has a more costly labor precisely because they have the opposite of what we have here.

it still boils down to our government. they failed to create a demand or if they created, its still too small compared to our fastly growing population. they failed to create strategies that could solve those problems. though i believe its not easy.

the US also has raw materials. but guess what do they do with them? they use them and process them in their own industrial complexes, fueling their own economic development, creating finish products that are of many times the value of the raw materials that they are made up of. we also have raw materials on our own. but guess what do we do with them? we sell them.

they dont export their raw materials because they have the capability to use them and we dont. just remember what happened to the inventor of the flourescent lamp. after agapito flores succeded in his flourescent lamp, he presented it to our government. the government praised his invention but they had no idea on what to do with the invention. and then ge came and brought his invention.
can we blame flores for selling his invention?

the 1920's Great Depression wasn't just a result of not being able to utilize surplus labor. as a matter of fact that was the consequence of the lack of confidence in the market structure that caused factories and the whole industrial sector to close down. in effect, it was an aggravating circumstance to what was already a downward trend. to portray unutilized labor as the cause of the Great Depression would just be wrong.

well, i didnt say that surplus labor was the root cause of the depression. its the non payment of loans from the defeated countries in the first world war. america lent a big sum of money to the defeated countries but didnt aid them in their reconstruction. they even competed with their products because they got so many surplus due to their high production rate. industries in the defeated nations broke and they wasnt able to pay debts. it resulted to a circle of collapsing confidence that every nation was suffering. thanks to the 2nd world war and america and the rest of the world broke out from the circle of collapsing confidence. thats why after the 2nd world war, america didnt only lend money to the defeated nations but aided them in their reconstruction. they learned the lessons in the great depression and prevented it from happening again. and europe became what they are today. our country was even showing signs of progress after the war and we were the on the top in our region during that period. unlucky for us, corruption started by marcos halted progress until now.

if Taiwan, Malaysia and Korea did not nurture their infant industries in the past, protecting it from the ruinous 'liberalization' of trade that the US and certain European industrialized countries advocated then, the tiger economies of Southeast Asia would remain little cubs. they did not allow trans-national and multi-national corporations within their borders, or at least placed restrictions on them when they did participate inside, when their products and industries were still too weak to compete.

they are successful today precisely because their economic base is strong to begin with when they entered the global arena. we, on the other hand, entered the arena on the position of weakness.

every economy of the world depended on the us economy because they are in the center because it is the biggest. its just our country failed to manage our economy that it wont be too dependent on the us aid that why were still cubs. korea achieved what they are today because they have the right officials that has a plan and a very effective strategy while we filipinos were managed by some presidents which practically dont know anything on running a country (erap and cory). and who elected these officials?

[rodsky]

after agapito flores succeded in his flourescent lamp, he presented it to our government. the government praised his invention but they had no idea on what to do with the invention. and then ge came and brought his invention.
can we blame flores for selling his invention?

OT--The "Agapito Flores Invented the Flourescent Blub" story is a confirmed Filipino urban legend, same with "Lunar Rover Invented by Eduardo San Juan" and other similar stories. Do a thorough search in the evolution of the mercury lamp and you'll see who were truly involved in the development of the gas-based type bulbs throughout history...not a single time is a Filipino ever mentioned. In the case of San Juan, he was actually part of a Boeing Team who was tasked by the Marshall Spaceflight center to developed the LRV, but he was not directly responsible for "inventing" the LRV. Pinoys always love to exaggerate.

-RODION

[gareb]

havent heard that story. it must be from an opinion of a writer but i really dont buy opinions immediately unless i hear the other side of the story.

that is so sad because it's true. i believe you should broaden your news sources more. and it's not even an "opinion story". i hope next time you will not dismiss facts because you've never heard of them.

i hope these help:

Corn Subsidies by year, U.S. Total
US Trade Protectionism
BBC: US must act 'quickly' on cotton
World Trade Organisation rules US cotton subsidies illegal
BBC: WTO questions US trade measures

it still boils down to our government. they failed to create a demand or if they created, its still too small compared to our fastly growing population. they failed to create strategies that could solve those problems. though i believe its not easy.

exactly. failure to industrialize our own economy and instead relying on foreign capital (hence foreign control of the economy) to fuel a supposed "boom" amounts to binding the entire economy on the fate of a larger one, this case the US. it is precisely the servile economic policies that the TNCs want which a puppet-like government institutes that creates the entire dependency scenario that leas one to think that without the US, developing countries like ours are doomed.

they dont export their raw materials because they have the capability to use them and we dont. just remember what happened to the inventor of the flourescent lamp. after agapito flores succeded in his flourescent lamp, he presented it to our government. the government praised his invention but they had no idea on what to do with the invention. and then ge came and brought his invention. can we blame flores for selling his invention?

first off, there is no conclusive proof that Flores, or indeed any Filipino for that matter, invented the lamp. this piece of information is conveniently placed under the label "hoax" along with the supposed "moon buggy inventor" San Juan.

secondly, the capability to utilize our own raw materials relies precisely on the level of economic development that we have. and economic development relies on the kind of economic policies that a government institutes. when a government such as ours becomes slaves to the dictates of the World Bank-IMF's "structural adjustment policies" so that our credit rating will stay stable and we can borrow more, the whole economy becomes a hostage to the whims of whoever controls the WB-IMF, which incidentally is the US.

every economy of the world depended on the us economy because they are in the center because it is the biggest. its just our country failed to manage our economy that it wont be too dependent on the us aid that why were still cubs. korea achieved what they are today because they have the right officials that has a plan and a very effective strategy while we filipinos were managed by some presidents which practically dont know anything on running a country (erap and cory). and who elected these officials?

of course every economy in the world "depends" on the US as its market for products and raw materials, as well as capital. but that is about the only amount of "dependency" that the whole world has for the US. but to see only this is to see only a fraction of the whole picture. what is not included in this view is how trade is unfairly managed and who influences, institutes, and benefits from the current free trade policies.

you seem to fail to understand that Taiwan, Korea, Malaysia became what they are today precisely because they refused to open up their economies early in the game, just as what the IMF and World Bank wanted them to. they defied the interest of the US and its neo-liberal economic bent and instituted protectionist policies in favor of their infant industries.

we, on the other hand, did the complete opposite. instead of nurturing and supporting our infant industries, we let foreign capital control the pace and direction of the economy. we flooded the local market with cheap imports, effectively killing our infant industries that could not compete, making us even more dependent on imports from rice to consumer and luxury goods.

because these polices do not help in strengthening local industrial production, our economy, hence the people, is forced to look for other avenues if only for it to suvive and stay afloat. OFWs and their foreign exchange remittances then became a palliative. since we have a weak local industrial sector, there too is a weak demand for labor, resulting in the high unemployment rate that we have, which leads to a lower labor cost that other countries exploit for their own industries.

this is only one avenue that exemplifes economic underdevelopment, a deliberately created poverty through the use of mechanisms such as those employed by financial insitutions with our debt as the leverage.

marcos, cory, ramos, erap, gloria, not a single president did anything substantial and signifiant enough to industrialize and support our fledgeling industries. this is not just a matter of who elects who, it's a matter of what kind of economic policies are instituted and who ultimately benefits from them.

[erwin_rommel]

OT--The "Agapito Flores Invented the Flourescent Blub" story is a confirmed Filipino urban legend, same with "Lunar Rover Invented by Eduardo San Juan" and other similar stories. Do a thorough search in the evolution of the mercury lamp and you'll see who were truly involved in the development of the gas-based type bulbs throughout history...not a single time is a Filipino ever mentioned. In the case of San Juan, he was actually part of a Boeing Team who was tasked by the Marshall Spaceflight center to developed the LRV, but he was not directly responsible for "inventing" the LRV. Pinoys always love to exaggerate.

-RODION

thanks for the info. i really thought those stories are true because they were taught in school since elementary and it even appeared in local science magazines.

we, on the other hand, did the complete opposite. instead of nurturing and supporting our infant industries, we let foreign capital control the pace and direction of the economy. we flooded the local market with cheap imports, effectively killing our infant industries that could not compete, making us even more dependent on imports from rice to consumer and luxury goods.

its not the americans who are killing our infant industries, its the surplus and ukay2x from japan and korea and most of all the very cheap products from china.

[gareb]

thanks for the info. i really thought those stories are true because they were taught in school since elementary and it even appeared in local science magazines.

shows you how outdated and erroneous our high school textbooks are.

its not the americans who are killing our infant industries, its the surplus and ukay2x from japan and korea and most of all the very cheap products from china.

that's right, if you cannot recall the "PX goods" in the 80's and the 90's coming all the way from the US.

the influx of imported goods coming from Korea, China, Japan, etc. are the "second generation" of imports that sustain our import dependency. and yet still, nothing is being done about it.