Rites of Brotherhood.

[kratos]

hay frat or sororities.. all organization should have some sort of structure and bylaws and should all be regulated by a non govt or a govt organization so that everything will be looked upon and checked if there are anything that goes against human rights, civil rights or anythign that concerns with it..

[LytSlpr]

hay frat or sororities.. all organization should have some sort of structure and bylaws and should all be regulated by a non govt or a govt organization so that everything will be looked upon and checked if there are anything that goes against human rights, civil rights or anythign that concerns with it..

In TAU GAMMA PHI'S tenets, codes of conducts & by-laws there is nothing that is against, race, creed or religion and it does not promote violence nor supersedes our constitution or any humanitarian law for that matter.

Though hazing, physical or otherwise, is abhorred by law i personally accept it as an essential process in building trust and gaining loyalty in the shortest possible time.

Heck even entering a new barkada, team, club or school there is some form of hazing. Probaby not physical but it is still hazing nonetheless. If you come to think of it probably hazing is human nature.

I mean, why totally condemn all forms of hazing? Just like prostitutes, it is their choice to submit to the system or process for that matter and they can quit anytime and accidents do happen not only in hazing. Personally, I find people who condemn hazing as very self-righteous particularly our politicians who are mostly frat men and women who also submitted or even conducted hazing themselves.

My stand is I condemn Death but not hazing. Mind you that Hazing does not necessarily mean Death.

Imagine PMA'ers not undergoing hazing? Maka-ihi na sila sa ilang purol didto sa Mindanao kay ang hazing siguro sa Abu Sayyaf mas grabe pa. Of course they can always mask it as training, acceptance, ritual rites and all those B.S.

[JX]

In TAU GAMMA PHI'S tenets, codes of conducts & by-laws there is nothing that is against, race, creed or religion and it does not promote violence nor supersedes our constitution or any humanitarian law for that matter.

question lng, since when diay nwala ang paddling sa TGP?

Though hazing, physical or otherwise, is abhorred by law i personally accept it as an essential process in building trust and gaining loyalty in the shortest possible time.

maka.loyal diay nang masakitan ka? hehe,

Heck even entering a new barkada, team, club or school there is some form of hazing. Probaby not physical but it is still hazing nonetheless. If you come to think of it probably hazing is human nature.

wla man cguro hazing nig freshman ka sa school, or some organizations.. rites cguro.. hehe,

I mean, why totally condemn all forms of hazing? Just like prostitutes, it is their choice to submit to the system or process for that matter and they can quit anytime and accidents do happen not only in hazing. Personally, I find people who condemn hazing as very self-righteous particularly our politicians who are mostly frat men and women who also submitted or even conducted hazing themselves.

dili man cguro tanan form of hazing g.condemn..

My stand is I condemn Death but not hazing. Mind you that Hazing does not necessarily mean Death.

kanya2x man cguro nang tolerance.. just like alcoholic beverages.. naay dugay mahubog, naay mahubog dayon..

Imagine PMA'ers not undergoing hazing? Maka-ihi na sila sa ilang purol didto sa Mindanao kay ang hazing siguro sa Abu Sayyaf mas grabe pa. Of course they can always mask it as training, acceptance, ritual rites and all those B.S.

naa man sila'y(PMA'ers) brutal nga kontra nga gpangandaman.. ang fraternity unsa man gpangandaman? hehe,

[brownprose]

In TAU GAMMA PHI'S tenets, codes of conducts & by-laws there is nothing that is against, race, creed or religion and it does not promote violence nor supersedes our constitution or any humanitarian law for that matter.

Though hazing, physical or otherwise, is abhorred by law i personally accept it as an essential process in building trust and gaining loyalty in the shortest possible time.

Heck even entering a new barkada, team, club or school there is some form of hazing. Probaby not physical but it is still hazing nonetheless. If you come to think of it probably hazing is human nature.

I mean, why totally condemn all forms of hazing? Just like prostitutes, it is their choice to submit to the system or process for that matter and they can quit anytime and accidents do happen not only in hazing. Personally, I find people who condemn hazing as very self-righteous particularly our politicians who are mostly frat men and women who also submitted or even conducted hazing themselves.

To condemn hazing shouldn't be taken as "self-righteous." Our laws and many other laws in other countries have condemned it. These laws were created out of the expressions of concerns from parents, school authorities, civil society to protect young people from getting hurt or worse death.

Inasmuch as we are given the legal PRIVILEGE to get organized, fraternities are not only OBLIGED to abide by these laws BUT to even HELP enforce the law being those usually involved with or normally do the "Initiation rites" - to make it free from any form of violence. We are entrusted with the legal and moral duty to uphold non-violent means to accept members. And fraternities are aware of these laws but what have we done? We still violate those laws that we are entrusted to keep/uphold and always have an excuse that "they're not gonna find out anyway."

Don't you think it is unfair, absurd or contradictory to our tenets? Don't you think by skirting the law counts a reputation of a good fraternity? No matter how we say how good hazing is to us - we are not above the law to keep it.

You just said it TGP does not promote violence. And most fraternities do banner the same goals against violence. The thing that concerns most people is that, if we from the fraternities keep on saying that we abhor violence, then why do hazing in the first place? I think these are just some of the ironies that are happening in most fraternities.

I may not agree with you that hazing is "human nature" or incidental to joining a group/barkada or fraternities for that matter. There are organizations that exist without hazing -- examples of which are Junior Jaycees/JCs, Rotaract/Rotary and many other civic groups or guilds. And if you think they too have hazing one form or another, NO they don't have. Taking entrance tests, managing projects, assigning tasks are not hazing per se.

Hazing has been affirmed by most literatures, history books, encyclopedias, wikis, dictionaries with the elements of violence in it. Try to visit dictionary.com so you can check out yourself.

To gain loyalty by hazing is still not right. Loyalty cannot be enforced on one person for a voluntary organization such as a fraternity for example or any other organization for that matter. And just like any other organization, you have the right to get out of it anytime you want or give up your loyalty to the service with or without their consent. Frat service is not like military service where your loyalty is expected/forced or face court martial.

I've seen a lot of people loyal to each other without going through hurting each other physically at the beginning. Loyalty is a process and takes a lot of time to really know whether the person is loyal or not. Hazing is an artificial form of earning loyalty -- if you come to think of it, many of our frat members today have defied or violated the oaths for which they swore to be loyal to.

It is not uncommon today to see frat people getting into drugs, kill rival frats or steal, like as you said, most politicians. If some time in the lives of politicians they were once or are still members of a frat how come they still lead a life not within the code of conduct of the fraternities they belong? So where's loyalty to their fraternity here? Or loyalty to the community to which they should serve? "Loyalty from hazing" will ultimately become meaningless in the face of choices that appeal to ones personal interest - now that's human nature.

[brownprose]

@LytSlpr

- Yes, hazing is also present in the military. Hazing should be condemned where they are present whether in fraternities, military organization or whatever organized groups.

- You're also right that "Hazing does not necessarily mean Death" but they are unnecessarily violent in most cases.
Hazing is condemned for its violence (like death and injuries) not to mention that it also violates the rights and
dignities of persons which is lost during the process.

- Frat people are intelligent enough to create alternative means to replace hazing - unfortunately most or none are
willing to do so.

- Have we ever asked ourselves why fraternities keep hazing (even if it's already declared illegal) and yet still can
afford to say that fraternities are law-abiding? Now, who's self-righteous here? Kita ra gihapon ang naigo.

[LytSlpr]

@JX: you are only referring to physical hazing

@brownprose: but still organizations, frat or not still result to hazing to get loyalty. as i have said, i joined a student and business organization and still there was hazing. in a psyche department in some university here, there was hazing before graduation. etc. etc.

worst, only physical hazings are enforced by law but psycho-emotional hazing is far more worse because these produces terrorists and twisted individuals. RE: Virginia Tech Massacre, it was hazing in its own right.

for me, as far as experienced is concerned, people tend to be more loyal when they experienced hardships not necessarily pain when they get accepted in an organization, not necessarily fraternities because a lot of people gusto ra mo dawat ug limpyo.

[brownprose]

@JX: you are only referring to physical hazing

@brownprose: but still organizations, frat or not still result to hazing to get loyalty. as i have said, i joined a student and business organization and still there was hazing. in a psyche department in some university here, there was hazing before graduation. etc. etc.

worst, only physical hazings are enforced by law but psycho-emotional hazing is far more worse because these produces terrorists and twisted individuals. RE: Virginia Tech Massacre, it was hazing in its own right.

Yes hazing in most cases are physical. Hazing which causes a person to be disturbed or abused psychologically/emotionally is still hazing or violence and therefore worthy of condemnation. Laws about hazing in this country are very clear against physical and mental abuse/violence as in most countries.

If you were violated physically or psychologically then you report it to authorities. Our ANTI-HAZING LAW or REPUBLIC ACT No. 8049 says:

SECTION 1. Hazing as used in this Act is an initiation rite or practice as a prerequisite for admission into membership in a fraternity, sorority or organization by placing the recruit, neophyte or applicant in some embarrassing or humiliating situations such as forcing him/her to do menial, silly, foolish and similar tasks or activities or otherwise subjecting him/her to physical or psychological suffering or injury.

[JX]

@LytSlpr

- Yes, hazing is also present in the military. Hazing should be condemned where they are present whether in fraternities, military organization or whatever organized groups.

The term "organization" shall include any club or the Armed Forces of the Philippines, Philippine National Police, Philippine Military Academy, or officer and cadet corp of the Citizen's Military Training and Citizen's Army Training. The physical, mental and psychological testing and training procedure and practices to determine and enhance the physical, mental and psychological fitness of prospective regular members of the Armed Forces of the Philippines and the Philippine National Police as approved by the Secretary of National Defense and the National Police Commission duly recommended by the Chief of Staff, Armed Forces of the Philippines and the Director General of the Philippine National Police shall not be considered as hazing for the purposes of this Act.

- You're also right that "Hazing does not necessarily mean Death" but they are unnecessarily violent in most cases.
Hazing is condemned for its violence (like death and injuries) not to mention that it also violates the rights and
dignities of persons which is lost during the process.

Section 1. Hazing, as used in this Act, is an initiation rite or practice as a prerequisite for admission into membership in a fraternity, sorority or organization by placing the recruit, neophyte or applicant in some embarrassing or humiliating situations such as forcing him to do menial, silly, foolish and other similar tasks or activities or otherwise subjecting him to physical or psychological suffering or injury.

- Frat people are intelligent enough to create alternative means to replace hazing - unfortunately most or none are
willing to do so.

- Have we ever asked ourselves why fraternities keep hazing (even if it's already declared illegal) and yet still can
afford to say that fraternities are law-abiding? Now, who's self-righteous here? Kita ra gihapon ang naigo.

Section 3. The head of the school or organization or their representatives must assign at least two (2) representatives of the school or organization, as the case may be, to be present during the initiation. It is the duty of such representative to see to it that no physical harm of any kind shall be inflicted upon a recruit, neophyte or applicant.

Section 4. If the person subjected to hazing or other forms of initiation rites suffers any physical injury or dies as a result thereof, the officers and members of the fraternity, sorority or organization who actually participated in the infliction of physical harm shall be liable as principals. The person or persons who participated in the hazing shall suffer:

-Republic Act 8049 (Anti-Hazing Law)

Hazing is not totally illegal; only physical harm is illegal in hazing.

@LytSlpr

physical hazing btaw ang gbawal sa Act. If i may ask, naa pa ang paddling sa TGP? hehe,

[brownprose]

Please read it well. Both physical and psychological violence is referred to by the law NOT just physical. Our lawmakers know damn well what hazing is that's why they have covered everything.

SECTION 1. Hazing as used in this Act is an initiation rite or practice as a prerequisite for admission into membership in a fraternity, sorority or organization by placing the recruit, neophyte or applicant in some embarrassing or humiliating situations such as forcing him/her to do menial, silly, foolish and similar tasks or activities or otherwise subjecting him/her to physical or psychological suffering or injury.

@JX

JX: "Hazing is not totally illegal; only physical harm is illegal in hazing." The above definition is not to be confused/interpreted that hazing is legal per se. Like other laws in other countries, lawmakers need to define what constitutes (elements that constitute) hazing para klaro. You may ask, why did they define it that way? The reason for such definition because the practice in most fraternities here (and even abroad) has always been "placing the recruit, neophyte or applicant in some embarrassing or humiliating situations such as forcing him/her to do menial, silly, foolish and similar tasks or activities or otherwise subjecting him/her to physical or psychological suffering or injury." Which means ang hazing dire exist under such forms.

You may ask - naa ba guy hazing nga without physical/psychological abuse/violence involve? It's possible BUT generally speaking, hazing has always been violent (be they physical/psychological) so mao na ang widely accepted view about hazing. Pangutana...ngano violence man dayon ang ma-relate sa hazing? Hazing, unfortunately, has a violent past/roots passed through generations which later became part of the "traditions" as most fraternities would call them.

I encourage you to research if there exist hazing in non-violent forms or definitions. Rarely or not at all. By ordinary definition hazing always carries with it its violent element. And as I have said repeatedly, even independent literatures like encyclopedias, dictionaries, wikis hazing has always been associated with violence. So strictly speaking hazing that is not violent is not at all hazing.

So the reason why legislators outlaw hazing is simply for its violence (physical or otherwise).

[JX]

@brownprose

really? i think you should read(it well).. hehe,

RA 8049 - An ACT Regulating HAZING and other forms of Initiation Rites in Fraternities, Sororities, and other organizations and providing penalties therefore:

Yes, at section 1, "hazing" is given a definition. (whats included and whats not included)
at section 2, prerequisites for conducting a hazing or initiation rites.(written notice 7 days before conduction, and initiation activities must not exceed 3days)
at section 3, another prerequisite, a representative from the organization/school must supervise the activity and make sure that there would be no physical harm inflicted upon the recruit, neophyte or applicant.)
at section 4, who is legally responsible if physical harm is inflicted, and its penalties.
at section 5, if any of the part(s) is in conflict with the 1987 constitution, the other provisions would still be valid and effective.
at section 6, amendable laws, orders, rules or regulations which are inconsistent with the Act.
at section 7, the Act shall take effect within 15 days together with publication of at least 2 national newspapers.

embarrassing or humiliating situations such as forcing him/her to do menial, silly, foolish and similar tasks or activities or otherwise subjecting him/her to psychological suffering or injury.

Not all naa'y violence.. (understand violence)
One good example nga nakit.an nako was, there's this fraternity nga nag.hazing, gpa.traffic aide siya(neophyte) while wearing a girls dress and make up and all. This is not illegal.
Diha pod neophyte gi.hazing nga gpasul.ot ug long sleeves, w/ tie and shiny shoes, along with a few roses nga kinahanglan ipanghatag sa mga chicks nga makit.an nya. thats not illegal.
Daghan pa, pro i think kasabot nka.. hehe.

And by the way, this Act took effect somewhere 1995 pa, pro wla gyud ni masunod, hantod karon naa ghapon nang bugsay.. hehe