WOMEN AND THE BIBLE

[amaw]

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I have to agree with Empress_Of_Drac, the catholic religion is bias with women(I am a catholic).

Why can't we allow women to become priests? Why can't the vatican change it? Women should deserve the same rights with men in serving the church.......... because they(the vatican folks) are too scared to create an uproar from the conservatives, and of course, mainly because all of those folks at the vatican are MEN. They are just too scared their lives will be altered if they include women to have shared the power in the Church. They cannot imagine a woman as the pope........ But why not? Mother Theresa would have surely be fitted in that role.


And speaking of the bible...Can we really rely on the Bible? as I can give you inconsistencies in the bible:

1.How many women came to the sepulcher?
John 20:1Â* Â* Â* Â* Only one woman went, Mary Magdalene.
Matthew 28:1Â* Mary Magdalene and the "other Mary" (Jesus’ mother) went.

2. Is God satisfied with his works?
Gen 1:31Â* Â* Â* Â*God is satisfied with his works
Gen 6:6Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*God is dissatisfied with his works.

3. Is Circumcission allowed?
Gen 17:10Â* Â* Â*Circumcision instituted
GAl 5:2Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*Circumcision condemned


....and that's not counting the fact that the Bible we are reading now is a translation from the original manuscripts which assumed to be aramaic texts, so the word-for-word or the phrase-for-phrase translation cannot be 100% accurate, thats not even counting typographycal errors made during the translation and through the course of time ...wait, what happened to the orginal dead sea scriptures? and how come Jesus works are not in the Bible?
And also, human beings wrote the Bible, so presumably, some of those verses are tailored to their likings, thus, created inconsistencies...one prime example, 2 apostles wrote different versions of Christmas....

[mannyamador]

I have to agree with Empress_Of_Drac, the catholic religion is bias with women(I am a catholic).

That's an unfounded assumption. Just because the Church doesn't treat them the same as men doesn't necessarily mean it is negatively biased. Men and women ARE different. To pretend they are not is insane.

Women aren't priests because Christ never made them priests. The Church HAS tried to look for some theological basis to ordain women. But it can't find any. The Church, as it stands now, doesn't have any theological basis for making the change. So it doesn't.

And speaking of the bible...Can we really rely on the Bible? as I can give you inconsistencies in the bible:

OF COURSE YOU CAN. You are reading it LITERALLY, which is precisely the WRONG way to read it.

[amaw]

I have to agree with Empress_Of_Drac, the catholic religion is bias with women(I am a catholic).

That's an unfounded assumption. Just because the Church doesn't treat them the same as men doesn't necessarily mean it is negatively biased. Men and women ARE different. To pretend they are not is insane.

Women aren't priests because Christ never made them priests. The Church HAS tried to look for some theological basis to ordain women. But it can't find any. The Church, as it stands now, doesn't have any theological basis for making the change. So it doesn't.

For me, it's a very lame excuse....if we follow that type of concept, women should never been allowed to vote, drive a plane, play boxing, and cannot even run as a president.
And how do we know that Christ never made women priests? How do we know if some nuthead, macho guys in the past burned those scriptures that proved Christ made women as priests....so as not to give the women a chance to become priests forever?

For goodness sake, these vatican folks are the ruling body of catholicism, they can change the rule from married priests(and popes) to prohibiting them to have spouses and children. Heck, they can even make me a saint....... yet they cannot adapt the present situation by treating women fair and square, thus, giving them equal opportunities to become priests?Â* OHHHH NO!

I'm a man, and proud on so many ways of being a man, but I don't see any reason why we cannot treat women squarely by allowing them to become priests. And that's because the vatican folks cannot find any theological basis to support it.......Do you think that explanation given from the vatican is fair enough?

Yes, men and women are different, but that doesn't mean we cannot give women equal opportunities.

And speaking of the bible...Can we really rely on the Bible? as I can give you inconsistencies in the bible:

OF COURSE YOU CAN. You are reading it LITERALLY, which is precisely the WRONG way to read it.

OK, I apologized.... I'm just an ordinary guy reading a bible, understanding it the way how it is written. As of now, I guess I cannot really fathom the in-depth meaning of it.

Perhaps you can enlighten me, a lost soul, how to read the bible the RIGHT way. On the examples I've mentioned above, can you please tell me how to read it the right way, or the true meaning on those examples, as I still found a lot of inconsistencies besides those examples, but that will be in another post..... Let us just start from the examples above.

And another question, how come we cannot find Jesus Christ's works in the bible?

[amaw]

You make it sound like the Bible approves the greatest social evils known to man, do you? You want to know the social evils committed by people who reject the Bible? Get the body count for Adolf Hitler\\\\\\\'s Nazi Germany in his attempt to establish a neo-pagan religion! Not satisfied? How about Josef Stalin\\\\\\\'s Communist Russia? Mao Tse-Tung\\\\\\\'s Communist China? Pol Pot\\\\\\\'s Communist Cambodia? The combined number of victims of these dictators is enough to make the number of victims of all the religious wars of the Jews, Christians and Muslims look like a fratwar-related violence.

I think it would be better if we drop the idea of discussing crime about humanities here.... because it makes me guilty(and sick) knowing that the past Roman Catholic leaders played a big part of it...... killing over one million jews in one year(70AD)......... forcing millions of jews, gypsies and pagans into slavery..... mistreating women...

And all these poor folks were getting was an apology from the Church delivered by the late Pope John Paul II, in the start of lent inÂ* the year 2000.

well, looking at the bright side, at least an apology had been made, and was delivered in the First Sunday of the Lent, which is the traditional time of penitance.... very timely, year 2000,Â* Church's millennium celebration in the Jubilee year.....
But still, that would not make me less guilty...

[HoundedbyHeaven]

I think it would be better if we drop the idea of discussing crime about humanities here.... because it makes me guilty(and sick) knowing that the past Roman Catholic leaders played a big part of it...... killing over one million jews in one year(70AD)......... forcing millions of jews, gypsies and pagans into slavery..... mistreating women...

You know what, brother in Christ. You better should get a better grip on your historical facts, especially the date-- 70 AD? Oh, God, there goes my two eyeballs.

Shalom.

[amaw]

I think it would be better if we drop the idea of discussing crime about humanities here.... because it makes me guilty(and sick) knowing that the past Roman Catholic leaders played a big part of it...... killing over one million jews in one year(70AD)......... forcing millions of jews, gypsies and pagans into slavery..... mistreating women...

You know what, brother in Christ. You better should get a better grip on your historical facts, especially the date-- 70 AD? Oh, God, there goes my two eyeballs.

Shalom.

I suggest you check first with your history teacher, before asking somebody to get a better grip of history..... Do you know this phrase "The Fall of Jerusalem"? If not, then you better keep your eyeballs intact, you still need to do a lot of researching......

If you are familiar with that phrase, and you still question the date 70AD, then, it's either you are blinded by your faith(so that explains the twisted eyeballs?Â* ), or you are too shy to accept that part of history that you want to confuse other readers by merely questioning the date, and making it sound like it's a mistake........ whewww, what a ploy.

[Empress_Of_Drac]

Why can't we allow women to become priests? Why can't the vatican change it? Women should deserve the same rights with men in serving the church.......... because they(the vatican folks) are too scared to create an uproar from the conservatives, and of course, mainly because all of those folks at the vatican are MEN. They are just too scared their lives will be altered if they include women to have shared the power in the Church. They cannot imagine a woman as the pope........ But why not? Mother Theresa would have surely be fitted in that role.

yeah...that's exactly my point...

[HoundedbyHeaven]

No, I wasn\'t questioning the date, and there is no doubt in my mind that you are referring to the \"Fall of Jerusalem\". What bothers me a lot is why the heck you blame a big part of the Fall of Jerusalem to past Roman Catholic leaders?

Hey, the Lord Jesus Christ foretold the Fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD because of the unbelief of the Jews several times in the New Testament. Are you saying our Lord ought to be blame for \"playing a big part\" in the Fall of Jerusalem? For the death of a million Jews in one year, for forcing millions of jews, gypsies and pagans into slavery and for the mistreatment of women, ought the Lord Jesus Christ be blame because He foretold it? Seems to me that had not the Lord Jesus died on the cross, no Roman Catholic leader would have appeared to, as you fantastically put it, \"play a big part\" in the Fall of Jerusalem.

Or are you claiming the absurd and incredible-- that the Roman army that came in and destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD were Roman Catholics? If so, boy am I glad we don\'t have the same history teacher!

[HoundedbyHeaven]

I have to agree with Empress_Of_Drac, the catholic religion is bias with women(I am a catholic).

I doubt you understand what it truly means to be Catholic.

Why can\'t we allow women to become priests? Why can\'t the vatican change it? Women should deserve the same rights with men in serving the church.......... because they(the vatican folks) are too scared to create an uproar from the conservatives, and of course, mainly because all of those folks at the vatican are MEN. They are just too scared their lives will be altered if they include women to have shared the power in the Church. They cannot imagine a woman as the pope........ But why not? Mother Theresa would have surely be fitted in that role.

If you understood what it truly means to be Catholic, you would know that the Lord Jesus Christ did not give the Church authority to ordain women. If we begin ordaining women as priest and electing them as pope, what\'s next? Male nuns? Mother Theresa, God rest her saintly soul would turn in her grave by the very idea of ordaining women.

And speaking of the bible...Can we really rely on the Bible? as I can give you inconsistencies in the bible:

1.How many women came to the sepulcher?
John 20:1 Only one woman went, Mary Magdalene.
Matthew 28:1 Mary Magdalene and the \"other Mary\" (Jesus’ mother) went.

2. Is God satisfied with his works?
Gen 1:31 God is satisfied with his works
Gen 6:6 God is dissatisfied with his works.

3. Is Circumcission allowed?
Gen 17:10 Circumcision instituted
GAl 5:2 Circumcision condemned

If you understood what it truly means to be Catholic, you would not doubt the inerrancy and material sufficiency of the Bible.

....and that\'s not counting the fact that the Bible we are reading now is a translation from the original manuscripts which assumed to be aramaic texts, so the word-for-word or the phrase-for-phrase translation cannot be 100% accurate, thats not even counting typographycal errors made during the translation and through the course of time ...wait, what happened to the orginal dead sea scriptures? and how come Jesus works are not in the Bible?
And also, human beings wrote the Bible, so presumably, some of those verses are tailored to their likings, thus, created inconsistencies...one prime example, 2 apostles wrote different versions of Christmas....

Like I said, if you understood what it truly means to be Catholic, you would not doubt the inerrancy and material sufficiency of the Bible.

[HoundedbyHeaven]

For me, it\\\'s a very lame excuse....if we follow that type of concept, women should never been allowed to vote, drive a plane, play boxing, and cannot even run as a president.

Women are not priests because Christ is male. Priests act in persona (\\\"in the person of Christ\\\") Christi. A priest is invested with the power to transubstantiate the Host into the male Body and the Wine into the male Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ who is male forever and ever. God the Son came into this world as a male on purpose because He is to be the High Priest of the order of Melchizedek. This order and even the Levitical order does not ordain female priests. Since the Old Testament, God commanded men alone to be ordained as priests on purpose. The priestly orders in the Bible distinguishes it from the priestly orders in pagan religions that ordain women.

Oh, and it\\\'s not about you. It\\\'s about papal infallibility to obey and understand.

And how do we know that Christ never made women priests? How do we know if some nuthead, macho guys in the past burned those scriptures that proved Christ made women as priests....so as not to give the women a chance to become priests forever?

Jewish and Apostolic Tradition. Since you are insinuating the possibility that scriptural proofs of the priestly ordination of women were burned, why not insinuate the possibility of the Lord Jesus Christ dying of gonorrhea as the Children of God sect claim? Or how about the possibility of His marriage to St. Mary Magdalene as Dan Brown portrayed in his novel? Or how about the possibility that it was really Judas Iscariot who died on the cross, and not Him?

For goodness sake, these vatican folks are the ruling body of catholicism, they can change the rule from married priests(and popes) to prohibiting them to have spouses and children. Heck, they can even make me a saint....... yet they cannot adapt the present situation by treating women fair and square, thus, giving them equal opportunities to become priests? OHHHH NO!

Simple, the Lord Jesus Christ did not invest the Church with the authority to ordain women nor did the authority to apply politically correct egalitarian principles. The Church is a heirarchy, not a democracy. We are all subject to the Pope and the Pope is subject to Christ.

I\\\'m a man, and proud on so many ways of being a man, but I don\\\'t see any reason why we cannot treat women squarely by allowing them to become priests. And that\\\'s because the vatican folks cannot find any theological basis to support it.......Do you think that explanation given from the vatican is fair enough?

\\\"Rome has spoken, the case is closed.\\\" This was how the Church survived for two thousand years-- obedience to the Chair of Peter.

Yes, men and women are different, but that doesn\\\'t mean we cannot give women equal opportunities.

Men and women are equal in dignity but their differences run deep. A priest is no different to calling a male child a boy or a son and not a girl or a daughter. It is no different to calling a male parent as father and not mother. It is no different to calling a male grandparent as grandfather and not grandmother. It is no different to calling the brother of your father as uncle and not aunt. It is no different to calling your male sibling as brother and not sister.

OK, I apologized.... I\\\'m just an ordinary guy reading a bible, understanding it the way how it is written. As of now, I guess I cannot really fathom the in-depth meaning of it.

Perhaps you can enlighten me, a lost soul, how to read the bible the RIGHT way. On the examples I\\\'ve mentioned above, can you please tell me how to read it the right way, or the true meaning on those examples, as I still found a lot of inconsistencies besides those examples, but that will be in another post..... Let us just start from the examples above.

And another question, how come we cannot find Jesus Christ\\\'s works in the bible?

What works?

Shalom.