Filipino Dumog vs. BJJ Grappling

[normster25]

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If you do remember guys, there are more than just joint locks in BJJ.... tapping out is not an option on the street true enough... and i would not like to call jiujitsu a multiple opponent martial art but then the fact of the matter is, the best way to win in a street fight is to get out of it early and ALIVE... am i right? and you don't necessarily fight in these situations... talking and reasoning your way out may be an option, spitting as you say may be an option, biting as you say may be an option.... all these no matter how you put it are not honorable things to do, but they get you through a fight ALIVE... technique wise this is not one of them... btiing, spitting, running are not techniques that people can be proud of... but they are effective... and are we not all equipped with the same things? these things i tell you cannot be learned in the gym or in a sterilized scenario... has your isntructor ever bitten or spat or kick your groin for that matter in training to emphasize that certain technique? these thigns are inherent to us as people to survive... taking that into consideration let me go back to the fact that we have to diffrentiate fighting from surviving... they are two diffrent aspects of life.... i would never call a multiple opponent scenario a fight... coz it leaves me with no choice but to look the other way and use anything to survive.. now we go back to the question of BJJ in a street scenario... i would like to say that it has occurred to me before whether or not this martial art is effective on the streets... and indeed the only time i have applied BJJ outside the mats was in a fight with just ONE other person... and yes he cannot tap out and yes i cannot execute transitional moves on concrete.... so i put him to sleep... simply put... i choked him out... im not sure how many of you have had their joints popped to a horribly ugly angle... but i have.... and ill tell u this... even with adrenaline running through your body.... the pain paralyzes you for a few seconds... it hurts like hell... sooo maybe yeah... i would say BJJ may not be the most street effective art... but its good enough for me...

BRO U2: trainings fine.... im doing a bit of wrestling now.... but im not too sure about PGL.... im very tired....

[kyla_bacs]

same here, BJJ is good enough for me.

i'l just practice the spitting, biting, etc at home so i'l have a longer range and a deeper bite, hehehe.

seriously, i dont think i need to learn this "hugaw pa sa tanang groundfighting"s dirty tricks to learn how to be dirty on the ground. we all know the groin, neck, eyes, ears, armpit are vulnerable parts.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

Kinsay nagpasiugda ba anang MANGLUWA ? Hehehe bitaw seriously , it is hard o COMPARE . BJJ beats the KUNG FU , sooner later BJJ was beaten by wrestling and so on and so forth . We should also figure outthe fine line of MARTIAL ARTS and SELF DEFENSE which I already explained in aprevious or different thread . SELF DEFENSE is for survival while MARTIAL ARTS is for the SPORT that caters people to make themselves better in a way SPRITUALLY , PHYSCIALLY and MENTALLY .

On the otherhand , dili ko mo bilib sa BJJ as a SELF DEFENSE technique towards multiple attackers . Mas mo bilib pa ko sa JKD which ive seen beforehand a guy all armed with deadly weapons and 5 sila kabuok . Indeed it is a MARTIAL ART and at the same a SELF DEFENSE mechanism yet we can go back to the issue of how much knowledge was acquired and the pplication put out .

You guys remember TANK ABBOT and KIMO ? The PIT FIGHTERS who never won a title ? I bet they are more capable of pounding opponents outside the OCTAGON applying what they knew and consider it as self defense compared to Gracie and Shamrock knowledge .

[kyla_bacs]

"the best defense is not to offense" - Chuck Norris

[Sinyalan]

"the best defense is not to offense" - Chuck Norris

Sound logical. I guess everyone would think about that because tananng Martial Artist akong na-ilaila wouldn't result to fighting (fist, weapons). But if you read his quote properly, "...NOT TO OFFENSE" there's contradicting of ideas... oh, he's chuck, sometimes I think that his abilities are questionable... I think he went to train a grappling school but don't know exactly where... I just got it from a secon hand story.

Back to the thread... I think there is a fine line between fighting in the ring and outside the ring. Most grappler's I know wouldn't fight on the ground. Now before you all get to fry me on this... here's one fact I got from my student. In reality, there is no one on one fight on the streets... majority of the "squabbles" happen to have multiple enemies. A TKD guy who he met and fought on the street had 4 of his buddies with him. He's a good grappler because I played with him on the mat and instantly he was fearing of his life... what he did, he even up the situation... that's when Dumog comes in... Dumog training is not just grappling by chance... the training is built on weapons transitions. What I mean to say is, if you have a weapon you can do a lot of things but without it, the transition of using the weapons still exists. Take for example if your holding a knife... the primary way to do is thrusting but without the knife,,, you can still thrust with your fingers, half-fisted thrust or slightly turning the fist with your pointer and middle fingers bend just to hit the pressure point. Dumog is a good supplemental part of BJJ and vice versa.

One good scenario for a BJJ player is if he's on top, there are possible ways to lock the guy under him to submit or turning to the sides... but my mentality is different, the guy on top will be breaking my bones... what I do next is not to let him move the sides (very common...)... how would I do that? Bit his right chest (if he's RH)... or bite the portion of his flesh just belowthe armpit. If he tires to get off and lunge a fist on my face... I already got a piece of flesh.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

1 on 1 match - no doubt GRAPPLING is the most effective form

multiple attackers match - definitely " DUMOG " is the way to go to survive .

PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE also applies well enough to win situations where you think you are bound for a beat up yet you have the advantage . Kakita nako ug binirahay sa USC-TC sa una . I mean heavily built and physically fit guys with backgrounds in martial arts namely UNSOFI and YAWYAN . Akong brod na " kamao lang mangamot " but a mere 5'7 150 lbs guy nailed them without getting through all of them . What he did was the moment we sensed danger he hit up right away the biggest and baddest of them all , element of surprise to include na gikaliguan sa kaugalingon dugo . If we did that kind of damage to a person na SINALIGAN sa multiple attackers , nagduha duha na sila nuon ug palegra namo . Ni tan-aw lang ko but I myself was shocked to learn how he did it , gi DUMOG niya to include gi itlog pag duko gi tuhod ang ulo human gisikadsikaran ang dunggan keeping his guard and never went down with the aggressor . Vital points to whoever thinks they are all that and how big they are havent figure out the larger they are the harder they fall . The rest of the multiple attackers ran never to bother and mess with the best . I guess the " fighter " of Yawyan wasnt effective enough to to defend himself .

[chocomai]

the guy in the picture is paul vunak, (the one with hair) like i said... BJJ with biting. nuff said

ur still basically dead, if you have multiple attackers, even if bjj or dumog, or even if you know both.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

A link that is basically a book that shows and tells how important DUMOG is over everything else when dealing with SELF DEFENSE outside the " RING " .

http://www.paladin-press.com/detail.aspx?ID=1441

ur still basically dead, if you have multiple attackers, even if bjj or dumog, or even if you know both.

Unsay pasabot ani CHOCOMAI ??

[chocomai]

A link that is basically a book that shows and tells how important DUMOG is over everything else when dealing with SELF DEFENSE outside the " RING " .

http://www.paladin-press.com/detail.aspx?ID=1441

Unsay pasabot ani CHOCOMAI ??

i meant kung tinuod jud nga multiple attackers, bsan BJJ or DUMOG or both ang imong nahibaw an, patay jud ta bai kng multiple attackers jud who are hell bent on killing us.

i never saw the word DUMOG in the website that has the link

also, its sad, we only have pictures of DUMOG done by foreigners.

[Sinyalan]

chocomai,

here's a sim[le clip from the manila FMAers http://youtube.com/watch?v=G-6CfNjflxY.

Romel Tortal ang primo sa Philippine Marines (SF) nga nagtrain both bladed weapons and Dumog.

Now, sa imong pangutana. Dumog mindset is weapons training... meaning if there is multiple attacker his first initial thing to do is look for any possible weapon to use. Ug kung wala, his other idea is to look for an opponent nga weaker in fighting back... or maybe in smaller in size, abilitity, fearing, sinaligan sa gang ug tinalawan mo hasmag. Ug magdungan tanan, ug sa ako lang I get out their way and still find the first person I can clip on and pin him down... and go for next. Mind you, if one gets down the ground after hitting him hard... sometimes the rest of the gang will think twice to attack you because you know something that they don't. Kuha nimo idea? Any possibilites that would make you above other things will enable you to assert and finish the job. Although, naay areas nga ngit-ngit but situational cases na... bring them out in the open so naa kai chances to fight back. My advice is, don't limit yourself on just one aspect of fighting one person... kinahanglan naay guyd kai presence of mind.