"Habemus Pappam" No More?

[teebee]

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your right! whoever is interested. in life, we are not forced to submit to anything that is not in tune with our personal choices, in the end it is up to us. should we or shouldn't we.

This is a good post tebee. good one.

hahaha, thanks, you are trying toi patronize me. Don't butter me up, i am a goofball when it comes to flattery.

I like the way you think, your a smart a$$ as i am.

I guess i did not run into a heated argument with you in the other threads because if i did, you wouldn't say this otherwise...

I am very opinionated with things.

I still have not finished reading the article on Habemus Papam. really long, but i want to understand it and know what it means.

To learn u must unlearn...

True, and you'll absorb easily waht you wanted to learn..

Javier, im not a debater kind of person, but i want to express what i felt and share my experiences of what i call faith..

not to change all of your perspectives, i am not a kind of person who will persuade my ideals...

i am too old for all of you guys, but still learning from all of your views...

you seemed very intelligent...

[HoundedbyHeaven]

I did not realize how long the article was....

Wow, I can hardly recall having made a thread like this until you replied to it nearly three years after. Got a bit nostalgic back there.

but does the catholic church even believe in prophecies? I do not think so.

On the contrary, She does. The messianic prophecies in the Bible, fulfilled and still to be fulfilled, are an example of what She believes in.

anything that does not come from the pope is usually taboo for the rc church and is never accepted. wht about you guys? what do you think?

The prophecies the Catholic Church hold to be true and will surely come to pass do not all come from the popes, like those in the Bible. Prophecies in the Bible are part of what is called Public Revelation, which all Catholics must believe in. Prophecies like St. Malachy's could be part of what is called Private Revelation, which a Catholic may or may not believe in. I say "could" in the case of St. Malachy's prophecies because these have not been approved by the Catholic Church to be, among others, of supernatural origin (and transmission too, I suppose) and to be free of conflict with the Church's doctrines and teachings.

Unapproved private revelations may or may not be believed in. However, if a private revelation is condemned by a bishop, then Catholics, in obedience, should do the same. The Marian apparitions in Lourdes, France is an example of an approved private revelation. The apparitions in Medjugorje are an example of a condemned one.

Thanks and God love us all.

P.S. Nice Iron Man avatar (I'm a comic-book fan)-- can't wait for the film to be released!

[pijavier]

Wow, I can hardly recall having made a thread like this until you replied to it nearly three years after. Got a bit nostalgic back there.

No way.... you mean this thread has been posted 3 years ago? wow....

On the contrary, She does. The messianic prophecies in the Bible, fulfilled and still to be fulfilled, are an example of what She believes in.

The prophecies the Catholic Church hold to be true and will surely come to pass do not all come from the popes, like those in the Bible. Prophecies in the Bible are part of what is called Public Revelation, which all Catholics must believe in. Prophecies like St. Malachy's could be part of what is called Private Revelation, which a Catholic may or may not believe in. I say "could" in the case of St. Malachy's prophecies because these have not been approved by the Catholic Church to be, among others, of supernatural origin (and transmission too, I suppose) and to be free of conflict with the Church's doctrines and teachings.

ok.

Unapproved private revelations may or may not be believed in. However, if a private revelation is condemned by a bishop, then Catholics, in obedience, should do the same. The Marian apparitions in Lourdes, France is an example of an approved private revelation. The apparitions in Medjugorje are an example of a condemned one.

Thanks and God love us all.

P.S. Nice Iron Man avatar (I'm a comic-book fan)-- can't wait for the film to be released!

Can you explain further on unapproved private revelations? I am just thinking, what basis does a bishop have to say that a revelation is approved or not?

doesn't that forfeit the purpose of faith if man can just say no, it's not real.... not true.

This also brings back the dancing sun, the prophecy of Jesus Christ return in Davao, the one south of Cebu.

I believe in prophecies but not this kind... certainly not the kind from nostradamus or others like him.

[brownprose]

There are more than a dozen prophecies as well as end-time prophecies presented by the Roman Catholic Church since its foundation. The most recent inclusion to the list (although not officially declared) is the Marian prophecy declared at Fatima nearly a century ago.

Non-Catholic versions include those Eschatology forwarded by the Born Again like the Rupture; The 2nd Coming (Tribulation) by the Adventists and the Isaianic prophesies by the Jewish and even other secular parallelisms as Nostradamus' just to name a few. All have claimed to have proof of apocalyptic fulfillment or "connection" to modern or post-modern events and upon which all subsequent events are ordained to "come to pass."

I have been a Christian all my life BUT I don't believe in things as immutable destiny.

To find connection to these cosmic happenstances only indicates our esoteric instincts to find "other reasons" other than the methods provided by science for things/events we can't explain. The apocalyptic "coincidences" to my mind, can be explained as simple products of mere chance or simply a convenient way to support a pre-conceived doctrine or Theology and it's not difficult to find similar occurences and similarities under such conditions.

Our proclivity or proneness to seek out apocalyptic patterns wherever we can, stems from our inherent instinct to find sense or meaning to a mortal sphere that we are still so unfamiliar of -- to find some form of reassurance that our universe is orderly and can be understood by either rhyme (prophesies or theologies) or reason (science).

[lestat1116]

murag sa spiritual thread ni da

[INFRACTION]

nya unsa mai kahadlokan ana oi... matay ra tang tanan japon oi...

[pijavier]

There are more than a dozen prophecies as well as end-time prophecies presented by the Roman Catholic Church since its foundation. The most recent inclusion to the list (although not officially declared) is the Marian prophecy declared at Fatima nearly a century ago.

Non-Catholic versions include those Eschatology forwarded by the Born Again like the Rupture; The 2nd Coming (Tribulation) by the Adventists and the Isaianic prophesies by the Jewish and even other secular parallelisms as Nostradamus' just to name a few. All have claimed to have proof of apocalyptic fulfillment or "connection" to modern or post-modern events and upon which all subsequent events are ordained to "come to pass."

I have been a Christian all my life BUT I don't believe in things as immutable destiny.

To find connection to these cosmic happenstances only indicates our esoteric instincts to find "other reasons" other than the methods provided by science for things/events we can't explain. The apocalyptic "coincidences" to my mind, can be explained as simple products of mere chance or simply a convenient way to support a pre-conceived doctrine or Theology and it's not difficult to find similar occurences and similarities under such conditions.

Our proclivity or proneness to seek out apocalyptic patterns wherever we can, stems from our inherent instinct to find sense or meaning to a mortal sphere that we are still so unfamiliar of -- to find some form of reassurance that our universe is orderly and can be understood by either rhyme (prophesies or theologies) or reason (science).

Bro for everybody's info also, the rapture is not accepted by all born agains sad. Like the catholic version of accepted and unaccepted prophecies.

for me a prophecy is a prophecy if it encourages a person. if it's for the sake of saying something like, in 2008 the US dollar will come down to 20 pesos. aw dili na prophecy, madame auring na .

[pijavier]

nya unsa mai kahadlokan ana oi... matay ra tang tanan japon oi...

Yes, I agree. we will all die eventually

[pijavier]

I invite you all to read "The Prophecies of St. Malachy" by Peter Bander, the most authoritative and most enlightening book on the alleged prophecies of St. Malachy O'Morgair about the popes of the Catholic Church here: http://truecatholic.bizland.com/The_...of_Malachy.htm .

Ok ba bro? nitaas na? hehehehe

[HoundedbyHeaven]

No way.... you mean this thread has been posted 3 years ago? wow....

You bet, hahaha. Check out the date below the title of my last post three years ago.

Can you explain further on unapproved private revelations? I am just thinking, what basis does a bishop have to say that a revelation is approved or not?

Certainly, here's the entry-- http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13005a.htm --on private revelations in the Catholic Encyclopedia. It's a long read, but I think you'll be interested enough to examine all of it.

However, just to quickly answer your query on the basis by which a bishop approves or condemns a certain revelation (I'll refer to private revelations as simply "revelations" from now on, for convenience, and "Revelation" to public revelation, just to distinguish between the two kinds.), one such basis-- if not the basis of all bases (because there are many, particularly the spiritual and moral state of the persons receiving the revelations, and the process is always long, as that encyclopedia entry above describes) --is if it agrees with Revelation. An authentic revelation never contradicts what God has revealed and taught through the Scripture, Tradition and the Magisterium (the infallible authority to teach on matters of faith and morals) of the Church-- God cannot contradict God. An authentic revelation even calls us to deepen our faith and knowledge in Revelation. If we encounter, for example, a revelation claiming that Mary is also God the Mother and that we should also offer sacrifices to her, then a bishop knows its inauthentic and rightly condemns it for it disagrees with what God has revealed and taught.

doesn't that forfeit the purpose of faith if man can just say no, it's not real.... not true.

I'm not quite sure if I understand you here. Am I to understand the statement above to mean that approving a revelation is pointless if belief in it is optional? If so, I would then say that it would not be pointless to do so. If a revelation is found to be authentic, it becomes an aid if approved and promoted, even though belief in it is not necessary. Like miracles, it reminds you powerfully of the power and the presence of God still at work in the world and encourages you to even more believe, hope and love Him.

By the way, the alleged prophecies of St. Malachy are unapproved, for the record.

This also brings back the dancing sun, the prophecy of Jesus Christ return in Davao, the one south of Cebu. I believe in prophecies but not this kind... certainly not the kind from nostradamus or others like him.

I think that a distinction must be acknowledged between secular prophecies of Nostradamus and the like and those approved by the Church. These alleged prophecies of St. Malachy are about the Church very specifically, and so are other revelations that were approved, condemned or are currently still under investigation. The Church do not figure largely in secular prophecies, as far as I know.

Thanks.