Separation of Church and State: Is this still being respected?

[lalakingbisdak]

---

If my sources are correct - there are churches here in Cebu getting as much as a million pesos A week even if most of these are just loose change.

Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's. I give taxes and donations to the government because i'm a Filipino citizen... and I also give money to the church because i'm a Catholic. If they collect money from the church which also comes from my pocket... mura na siya og double taxation.
I dont think we call it double taxation. We pay tax through our salary, we buy things with tax, we eat sa restaurant with tax so why not tax the church? They have the right for freedom of speech so its their right to pay taxes. I wonder why they are exempted sa tax, nya mga pakialamero/pakialamera.

[FK]

I dont think i call it "meddling" in its strongest sense when you suggest to the pope that we need more cardinals or sainthood of certain Filipinos. If you were GMA, representing the Filipino nation, visiting the Pope, what would you talk about diay, di ba?

mao na deperensiya... kng ang politiko mag hisgot og religious stuff, ok ra... pero kong ang pari mag hisgot about morality sa gobyerno, dili ok.

They could talk about poverty in the philippines. and besides onsa man kalibutan ni GMA kng kinsa angay ma santos og mahimong cardinal. and the writer says... selecting the who will become a Cardinal is not the same as selecting a congressman.

[FK]

I dont think we call it double taxation. We pay tax through our salary, we buy things with tax, we eat sa restaurant with tax so why not tax the church? They have the right for freedom of speech so its their right to pay taxes. I wonder why they are exempted sa tax, nya mga pakialamero/pakialamera.

their right for freedom of speech... does not come from being a priest. It comes from being a Filipino. Same as ours...
The money that will be tax from the Church is the money that is from me... so if they tax the Church, they are taxing the money coming from me. The money that I gave to the Church is solely for the purpose of my Church, not for the purpose for the state.

[lalakingbisdak]

I dont think we call it double taxation. We pay tax through our salary, we buy things with tax, we eat sa restaurant with tax so why not tax the church? They have the right for freedom of speech so its their right to pay taxes. I wonder why they are exempted sa tax, nya mga pakialamero/pakialamera.

their right for freedom of speech... does not come from being a priest. It comes from being a Filipino. Same as ours...
The money that will be tax from the Church is the money that is from me... so if they tax the Church, they are taxing the money coming from me. The money that I gave to the Church is solely for the purpose of my Church, not for the purpose for the state.

The priests are filipinos too and the church is in the philippines, so do they have to be exempted sa tax? They are filipinos and the are in the philippines.

[FK]

The priests are filipinos too and the church is in the philippines, so do they have to be exempted sa tax? They are filipinos and the are in the philippines.

i'm not quiet sure if priestare exempted from tax if they have jobs or have businesses not related with the church. But if there income are outside of church duties then I believe they should also be tax.

[mango]

OT - We all know we HAVE to pay for the services ( religious rites ) we get from the priests. Now, it would be nice if all priests would just do it out of the goodness of their hearts and people with lesser means won't have to cough up with anything specially if it's a death in the family.
I still believe that the church should be taxed - all churches not just the Catholic ones. It's about time. The gov't's always looking for ways to get more taxes from us, why not the church this time. Di jud na maka pobre sa simbahan kay pwerte nang datu-a sa mga pari. Yes or no ?

[tackielarla]

Good morning to all.

Where do i start ba...

ok. First, there's another impeachment filed by Jejomar Binay's daughter. ok fine. but now, former VP Guingona warns Arroyo of civil disobedience if the impeachment complaints were blocked. i really dont get this old timer. filing an impeachment complaint is yes a constitutional process. if it was rejected due to lack of numbers, w/c btw is also part of the constitutional process, he resorts to civil disobedience? trapo ra jud...

Second,

I dont think i call it "meddling" in its strongest sense when you suggest to the pope that we need more cardinals or sainthood of certain Filipinos. If you were GMA, representing the Filipino nation, visiting the Pope, what would you talk about diay, di ba?

mao na deperensiya... kng ang politiko mag hisgot og religious stuff, ok ra... pero kong ang pari mag hisgot about morality sa gobyerno, dili ok.

ok raman sa ako ang muhisgot ug morality ba. lahi man gud ang mu file jud kag impeachment complaint. if you didnt notice, wala raman nipalag ang malacanang while some bishops lambasted GMA, but karon lahi naman gud ni pangilabot na jud. in any case, malacanang is asking CBCP to sanction that certain caloocan bishop... abangan nalang ug maunsa siya.Â*

So see... if the government was founded by the same God that of our Church. so by virtue of the authority given by God to the priest.Â* They can meddle with the government?

lahi nasad ni na logic. you cant mix them pre. if you read your Bible, check out 1 Peter 2:13-17. I dont think God will contradict Himself, di ba? God clearly states that for HIS sake, we should SUBMIT ourselves to EVERY AUTHORITY INSTITUTED AMONG MEN. Dude, naay wisodm why God told us this. I dont think that GMA naman is telling us not to worship Jesus so far, so I really dont think there is a need to go to the streets jud. this impeachment thingy is all politika for me. I mean, WHO DIDNT CHEAT IN THE LAST ELECTIONS DIAY? I think si Eddie V. lang ata eh. let the first man without sin cast the first stone...

Don't you think also that this government officials of our don't need advices on what is right and what is moral?Â* Look at what they are doing are this morally right.

Just think of this... if Cardinal Sin stop after they have made their stand, do you think Marcos will be out? If a person is making a stand in favor of the opposition it's grandstanding and what about a person making a stand in favor of the administration?

advice, yes. impeachment complaints on congress, no.Â* :mrgreen:

the last statement is a clear sign of meddling with the affairs of the state... but expressing ones view on an issue is never meddling with the affairs of the state.Â* Another instance where I can say that it is a clear meddling with the affairs of the state is when a priest lobby for who will be appointed in what position.

huh? lobbying for someone is a clear meddling with political affairs? lobbying bro ha... thats just a recommendation by mouth ha... compare that to FILING an actual complaint? do you think malacanang is complaining because (maybe)he is preaching every sunday that this goverment is corrupt, or the fact that he took matters into his own hands, knowing he is a priest, and included himself in the constitutional process of impeachment procedures? i think we need to reassess the whole situation here...

All in all, these arguments are valid. Some people I know feel this way, and I feel for them baya. I personally was mad at GMA because I have this gut feeling na siya jud toh nakig istorya ni Garci ba. But if you really look into it, dili lang si GMA ang nananwag ni Garci. Siya lang ang na recordan kay sha man ang nidaug. These people are just power grabbers. Why cant they just accept defeat and wait for the next elections? Dinha unta nila i-prove ilaha worth. Kusog man baryanay bisan kang FPJ. Who are we kidding anyways?

Bottomline, I feel that we should just let GMA finish her term. Despite all my dissapointments with her, Im glad that somehow, despite all the political noise, our economy is not so bad. We're still floating ad investors are still interested sa atoa. Our peso is stronger, whic helped in curbing the spiralling prices of gasoline. I just hope lang na we should unite nalang gud...

Thanks!

[FK]

ok. First, there's another impeachment filed by Jejomar Binay's daughter. ok fine. but now, former VP Guingona warns Arroyo of civil disobedience if the impeachment complaints were blocked. i really dont get this old timer. filing an impeachment complaint is yes a constitutional process. if it was rejected due to lack of numbers, w/c btw is also part of the constitutional process, he resorts to civil disobedience? trapo ra jud...

civil disobedience was I think being done before during Marcos time.

ok raman sa ako ang muhisgot ug morality ba. lahi man gud ang mu file jud kag impeachment complaint. if you didnt notice, wala raman nipalag ang malacanang while some bishops lambasted GMA, but karon lahi naman gud ni pangilabot na jud. in any case, malacanang is asking CBCP to sanction that certain caloocan bishop... abangan nalang ug maunsa siya.

again a Filipino bishop is a Filipino citizen... who can file an impeachment against the president.
Just because you are a priest you can't exercise your political right?

wala d i ni palag... dayon ngano kapila na man ko nakadungog ani nga linya nga dapat ang simbahan dili mangilabot sa buluhaton sa nasud? abi nako ok ra niya kong sawayon sila sa simbahan?

lahi nasad ni na logic. you cant mix them pre. if you read your Bible, check out 1 Peter 2:13-17. I dont think God will contradict Himself, di ba? God clearly states that for HIS sake, we should SUBMIT ourselves to EVERY AUTHORITY INSTITUTED AMONG MEN. Dude, naay wisodm why God told us this. I dont think that GMA naman is telling us not to worship Jesus

I'm just pointing that the Church and the State though separated are still related to each other. So you can't expect that when a moral issue is being thrown at a political leader, a catholic priest will just shut up and also you can't also expect that when a catholic priest is charge of rape... you can't expect that the law will not be thrown at him.

huh? lobbying for someone is a clear meddling with political affairs? lobbying bro ha... thats just a recommendation by mouth ha... compare that to FILING an actual complaint? do you think malacanang is complaining because (maybe)he is preaching every sunday that this goverment is corrupt, or the fact that he took matters into his own hands, knowing he is a priest, and included himself in the constitutional process of impeachment procedures? i think we need to reassess the whole situation here...

of course it is... why do you think that the Venable contract was a big issue? Because it was hired for the purpose that they will lobby for the US congress to support for Cha-Cha, and as the constitution suggest it's a big NO-NO. And you say lobbying is not meddling?
While filing an impeachment complaint is just filing a complaint against your friendly neighborhood congressman, mayor and senator or robber. Because an impeachment is the only process where a president can face his accusers and be charge. So why can't a priest file a complaint against a filipino citizen?

so far, so I really dont think there is a need to go to the streets jud. this impeachment thingy is all politika for me. I mean, WHO DIDNT CHEAT IN THE LAST ELECTIONS DIAY? I think si Eddie V. lang ata eh. let the first man without sin cast the first stone...

But if you really look into it, dili lang si GMA ang nananwag ni Garci. Siya lang ang na recordan kay sha man ang nidaug.

All persons who are accused of corruption and all crimes can now use this line... "WHO DID NOT DO IT...", "WHO IS NOT CORRUPT IN THE GOVERNMENT ANYWAY..." let's just move one and support me coz i'll make it up to you.

[baron]

It is true that these priests are citizens of this country. As such, they can say their opinions on the matters concerning our society. However, I am wary when they use their influences as priests or bishops to make a big issue out of something. This might lead to misinterpretations that their opinions are the opinions of the whole Catholic Church in the Philippines.

We are still considered the seat of Catholicism in Asia. Priests still have their influences over the people. It would be best if only these bishops in the limelight would not intervene with secular affairs. In doing so, we will uphold the constitutional limitation on the separation of power of the Church and the State.

[tackielarla]

I dont think i call it "meddling" in its strongest sense when you suggest to the pope that we need more cardinals or sainthood of certain Filipinos. If you were GMA, representing the Filipino nation, visiting the Pope, what would you talk about diay, di ba?

mao na deperensiya... kng ang politiko mag hisgot og religious stuff, ok ra... pero kong ang pari mag hisgot about morality sa gobyerno, dili ok.

They could talk about poverty in the philippines. and besides onsa man kalibutan ni GMA kng kinsa angay ma santos og mahimong cardinal. and the writer says... selecting the who will become a Cardinal is not the same as selecting a congressman.

Again, I dont think the kind Bishop from Caloocan is just merely talking about morality here...