Religion, Rome and The Reich: The Vatican's other dirty secret

[samokan]

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@Neumix22, that it why I said "ONE OF THE" not "THE" .. there is a big difference.

[Nezumix22]

@Neumix22, that it why I said "ONE OF THE" not "THE" .. there is a big difference.

Oops, read so fast I couldn't wait to post that I missed that one.. hehehe peace, sis!! (it's funny how I'm used to writing bro in this site.. heheh)

Yeah, there's a difference.. Up until now, the Jews are being persecuted everywhere.. and anyone who supports them will be marked sort of for all those racists to prey on.. and even the Muslims will make war with them..

[tolstoi]

^^i just don't get it dude..a Pagan giving a damn on what a Roman Catholic Pope will say?

3 days ago you are mocking Christ and now you are at high praises with our Pope..i don't know what tricks you are playing here.

First of all, stop calling me something I'm not. Whatever the f*** a Pagan is, I'm not one.

I wasn't mocking Christ, I was mocking people who were taking things too seriously.

And yes, while I disagree with Catholicism, I admire what Pope John Paul II did. What can't I? What he did, which was essentially owning up to the faults of the institution he represents stands as a leap forward towards better peace and understanding among ALL RELIGIONS, and that is an admirable gesture regardless of what my beliefs are.

i got an info that you are a Wiccan..and Wicca is a form of a Pagan religion...am i ryt?

oh really..you did not intend to mock Christ on that pic?..how bout you post a Mohammad pic here with similar gesture, then let's find out what wud be the Muslim's reaction.

i admire your stance if indeed you're sincere on that..but ridiculing Christian faith while praising the Pope seems quite odd.

[darkwing]

woohoo another religion debate, good thing we don't have guns here

[Carlo Borromeo]

Ah Wiccan? I don't even know what that is. Who told you that? I have trouble with monotheism as it is, you'd actually think that I'd go nuts and start worshippin a MULTITUDE OF GODS?

Did you read WHAT the Pope said in his apology? If you did, then you will know why I admired his actions. If you didn't, then it figures why you find my statement odd. The problem arises NOT when people argue, but then people start oversimplyfying things, as if ONE WORD or ONE STATEMENT or ONE SOLUTION works for all things. Like you trying to pigeonhole me as ANTI-CATHOLIC, when my hope was 1. That people not take things too seriously, and 2. People not oversimplify things. At the same time.

It's just my way of being objective. I don't want to denounce Christianity. I want to denounce zealotry, people who act as if their faith gives them license to pick on other people. I deplored the actions done in Christ's name, not Christ himself. He lived an exemplary life that should be emulated by ALL PEOPLE. I deplore, however, when a person uses Christ's name to wage war on others, when he is representing someone who preached universal love and forgiveness.

[mannyamador]

NOT CAUSE the HOLOCAUST, but it was Catholicisms staunch view that the Jews as a race were responsible for killing Christ which added fuel to Hitler and Nazism.

This last claim has no basis in fact. Can anyone show a single doctrinal/dogmatic statement of the Catholic Church that blames the Jews in general for killing Jesus? Well? None? Like I said, no basis in fact.

The truth is that the Church has declared that it is immoral to blame the Jews as a race or a nation for killing Jesus. Now THAT is the official Church position.

By the way, the Catholic Church saved more Jews during the Holocaust than any other nation or group. The Church saved 800,000 of them. No other group came even close. In fact, most anti-catholic protestant churches just closed their eyes. It was the Catholic Church that took the risks (remember, the Vatican was in an Axis country, Italy) and saved Jews. The rest did very little in comparison.

[patsadahon]

I dont think that the Catholic had race problem with the Jews. Its unlikely because Catholics see the Jews as the chosen people of God. If there is any conflict with Jews its about the divinity of Jesus Christ. The innuendo that the Catholic Church is entertaining racial hatred towards the Jew is very irresponsible.

[wormwood]

all of these anti- Roman Catholic bashing are sprouting up just to piggy-back on the success of dan Brown's kiddy fiction book..they all like to grab a slice of da Vinci's Pizza Mia

i beg to differ. There had been many claims in the past about the Vatican contoversies even before Dan Brown's book and it's not even his original idea. These ideas are already there, the recent controversy just became a catalyst for people to dig more.

[wak_wak]

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hell. [See Calvin]

The third day He arose again from the dead.

He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.

Amen.

[Carlo Borromeo]

NOT CAUSE the HOLOCAUST, but it was Catholicisms staunch view that the Jews as a race were responsible for killing Christ which added fuel to Hitler and Nazism.

This last claim has no basis in fact. Can anyone show a single doctrinal/dogmatic statement of the Catholic Church that blames the Jews in general for killing Jesus? Well? None? Like I said, no basis in fact.

The truth is that the Church has declared that it is immoral to blame the Jews as a race or a nation for killing Jesus. Now THAT is the official Church position.

By the way, the Catholic Church saved more Jews during the Holocaust than any other nation or group. The Church saved 800,000 of them. No other group came even close. In fact, most anti-catholic protestant churches just closed their eyes. It was the Catholic Church that took the risks (remember, the Vatican was in an Axis country, Italy) and saved Jews. The rest did very little in comparison.

Hey, man. Nice to see you on this thread. My two cents:

One of the key motivations for Vatican II was Christian-Jewish reconciliation. This was because, for the longest time (and by that I mean Pre-Vatican 2), it was a widely held belief by your average Christian (non-Catholics included) that the Jews as a people were responsible for Deicide. Some of them even based it on this verse:

[b]"And the whole people answering, said: His blood be upon us and upon our children." [/b] (Mt 27:24, 25)

(That's why so many Jewish Groups were protesting the release of Mel Gibson's The Passion, fearing that it would reignite such Anti-semitic views.)

Anyway, in Vatican II, Nostra Aetate was declared, stating that:

The Second Vatican Council, commonly known as Vatican II, was a pastoral ecumenical council of the Catholic church opened under Pope John XXIII in 1962 and closed under Pope Paul VI in 1965. One of the most revolutionary changes that resulted from interpretations of this council's documents are those which concerned the document Nostra Aetate.

True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ; still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ. Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.
In 1971 the Catholic Church established an International Liaison Committee for itself and the International Jewish Committee for Interreligious Consultations (this Committee is not a part of the Church's Magisterium).