RELIGION

[MrBiddle]

---

Only God pure and adulterated.

Bitaw pure and adulterated... Catholic nalang gud mo tanan! mga born again mga "Jesus freaks" na sila. Sipsip sila ni Jesus pero mga Catholics LOVE nila ang mama ni Jesus og oban pang mga tawo nga naay POWER. Like in the orange juice commercial pantay na! Ponder on that.

Ang Roman Catholic man gud mao man na ang "in thing"... gawas kung di mo kasakay og bandwagon... people who hate the RCC have never had girlfriends in their lives and they quote the bible which is less infallible than the Pope to feel special. They do stupid crap like that to feel special. Ana pa jud nang wa pa ka-uyab.

[MrBiddle]

As for ang mama ni Jesus na si mama mary.... ngano di man ninyo hatagan og gahum og himaya?

Example, naay plastic surgeon og naa siya'a mama na abugadong sikat. Kung naay pasyente og nilarga sa abroad ang plastic surgeon - ayaw ko ingni na way bili iyang mama bisag abugado ang profession niya?
Ang mama nay mag ayo sa pasyente!

[s.n.m.p.]

Mao ni ang gi-ingon sa Bible about salvation:

Philippians 2:12 says, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Are you saved?" asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: "As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–, but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."

So mao ni akong tubag sa imo miga.

Happy World Youth Day. Long live Pope Benedict XVI.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:35-39

First, these verses do not say, "Who shall separate us from the salvation of God?" Secondly, nowhere in these verses is Paul saying that sin cannot separate the one who rebels against the true and holy God.

To read the doctrine of eternal security into these verses is not warranted, since the conditionality of God's love is asserted throughout the Scriptures as a whole. God has an unconditional love for the lost as we can see in John 3:16. Other passages, such as the account in Mark 10:21,22 of the rich young ruler, who Jesus "beholding him loved him," further show the unconditional love of God, yet the ruler went away lost and grieved.

Why does Jude 21 warn us to "keep yourselves in the love of God" if the possibility of separation from God's love is impossible? In John 14:21 the conditionality of God's love is expressed this way, "He that hath my commandments, and keeps them, is he that loveth me; and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and manifest myself to him." Notice the clear and unambiguous words of Jesus, "He that hath my commandments and keeps them . . . is loved of my Father, and I will love him." Only bias and prejudice could impel one to deny the obvious conclusion that sin and rebellion is not the keeping of Christ's commandments, and that rebellious sinners are not in the love of God. In John 15:10 Jesus makes the same point again by inference, "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."

Clearly, there is a general love of God that goes out to all mankind regardless of their lost condition, and a specific and intimate love that God has only for those that are in fellowship with him through the atoning work of Jesus Christ. It is plain to see that this passage in Romans is this latter type of love.

Who shall separate us? Paul is addressing two elements here, one being "us." It is only those who are "in Christ" that are concerned with here, and not humanity overall. Notice that the designation "who" is not the believer himself, but that influence or circumstance that is outside the believer. The entire listing of Paul is consistent with this context! Death, life, angels, principalities, powers, et cetera, are all elements that do not include the moral choice of the individual who is now a believer. God's love is present in those who are in Christ, regardless if their circumstances in this life seem to give the impression that his love and protection is being withheld from them.

"Doesn't this passage say that 'any other creature cannot separate us from the love of God?' We are creatures and therefore we cannot separate ourselves!" The context demands that these "other creatures" are not us! Common usage of words denies this strange manner of interpretation. It makes no sense to say "who shall separate us . . . death, life . . . height, depth, nor we disobedient believers ourselves shall be able to separate us."

To get eternal security from these Scriptures, one has to assume that this is the meaning of the texts before reading them. By using this approach, they start it with theory, and they end it with theory, and that all they have! THEORY, and not TRUTH!


But Who save you??

LAst hirit na lang. Sin separate us from God. Thats why God banished Adam and Eve. If we follow your line, murderers, rapist, corrupt people will still go to heaven without even repenting. Saying I believe in God is one thing, doing what God commands is another thing. Whats the use of the ten commandments if you just believe in God but dont follow it.

I advice born agin groups to study philosophy, theology and logic before trying to interpret the Word of God.

[s.n.m.p.]

Bro obese, I think Dacs will answer you today or tomorrow. He is still researching!!! May God Bless Us All here. Very Good thread.

Have you read all of the posts of Obese Bo Ricardo? Then you probably have become quite familiar with it. It has become boring at times. The same accusations are presented without any support from the writings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church or even just the early Christian writings. It would have given credibility to the historical probability of his assumptions/interpretations. Not once did he disprove the quotations I have presented from the early Christian writers.

No, bro, I need not research about something that has no basis in history. Obviously, there is nothing to research. I have handled far greater challenge than Obese Bo Ricardo have offered me. Why continue what has evolved into something that looks more like a shouting match than an intelligent and scholarly discussion?

Shalom.

Yeah right. Obese bo Ricardo is nothing compared to those I have encountered too. But they share commonalities. Its like youre talking to a wall. What Obese Bo Ricardo will do is to present a topic, then you rebut it and then he will post another topic without answering your rebuttal. He always try to overwhelm us with Bible blah blah. He will presenet passages as if he is quoting a Supreme Court ruling. Cmon. The Bible is more than that. You have to contextualize its meaning before you use it.

Dont just read the passaages, man. Reflect on it. You can be quoting but I doubt if you really have a sincer desire to go deeper its meaning.

[MrBiddle]

Yeah right. Obese bo Ricardo is nothing compared to those I have encountered too. But they share commonalities. Its like youre talking to a wall. What Obese Bo Ricardo will do is to present a topic, then you rebut it and then he will post another topic without answering your rebuttal. He always try to overwhelm us with Bible blah blah. He will presenet passages as if he is quoting a Supreme Court ruling. Cmon. The Bible is more than that. You have to contextualize its meaning before you use it.

Dont just read the passaages, man. Reflect on it. You can be quoting but I doubt if you really have a sincer desire to go deeper its meaning.

Yup. He assumes the name of the archbishop but his authority is from his own and NOT from the Vatican. He is a candidate for banning.

[MrBiddle]

You know what at the risk of sounding like I'm flaming Obese Bo Ricardo, a man who blames the Central Intelligence Agency and the United Nations for acting in concert for world peace with the Roman Catholic Church clearly has "issues".

Calling ecumenism a "farce?" I bet that man hasn't even taken a course in General Psychology as his line of reasoning clearly brands him with Messianic Complex. I might be misunderstanding his intentions though....

S.N.M.P.

Bro, I like General Ethics that's my favorite subject. You a Phi.los'ophy Major? Makalabad lang og o nang Logic. wahehehehe!

Ma'am N.Gel,

Thanks for waking us up and pacifyingÂ* this virtual "jihad".Â* You have reminded us of the true spirit and essence of Christianity.

All of the debates in here defeat the purpose of why groups like ISTORYA.NET were created. We are here to build bridges NOT walls!Â*

Peace everyone.

[MrBiddle]

LAst hirit na lang.Â* Sin separate us from God.Â* Thats why God banished Adam and Eve.Â* If we follow your line, murderers, rapist, corrupt people will still go to heaven without even repenting.Â* Saying I believe in God is one thing, doing what God commands is another thing.Â* Whats the use of the ten commandments if you just believe in God but dont follow it.

I advice born agin groups to study phi***phy, theology and logic before trying to interpret the Word of God.Â* Â*

Meganda and Von-X! are trying to contest that Sola Fide which has most of it's foundation from Acts 26: 18 or Eph. 2: 19
isn't entirely heretical.

But some of us fail to listen to the reminders of S.N.M.P. or N'Gel that this "sola fide" can also be distorted to defend the hedonistic dogma of "Once saved. Always saved."

To illustrate - suppose I have a wife in the Christian marriage.... suppose I sleep with other women too... yet I profess fidelity or faithfulness to my wife. What does that make me?

I wouldn't be so quick as to call "once saved always saved" as heresy but anyone who understands the implications of hedonism in General Ethics can in no way justify that this state of mind is "Christian" or "Biblical". As Ma'am N'Gel puts it it will be denial

Obese Bo Ricardo has some interesting opinions that the ecumenical movement and the worlwide unity of the RCC fulfills an end time prophecy, but he is disrespectful in his manner, even to the point of being pharisaic in nature and at one point he called my poor attempts of humor as "juvenile quips". I was very insulted, and he has no idea that some people just hate my guts when I talk a lot which is why I am sometimes very cynical in my posts here....

[MrBiddle]

lol! sunod-sunod diay na sa uso?

Soulshocked,

tungod sa pagkananing na posts ba na sapawan na nuon tong gi-ingon ni pnoize2k4 that there is no perfect religion you can cling to. it's even written in rick warren's book...

kung sa RCC naa sila'y tainted murderous history. kung sa INK grabe sad ilang "bondage" although if president ka you can rake in a lot of cash. kung sa born again, matud pa ni Dacs mahagbong ka as "self-interpreter" although daghan CHICKS sa ilang ecclesia.

Theological extremists can never get the meaning of "in thing" or bandwagon trends.

Studio 23. Barkada mo.

(wa ko ga condemn og mga naning ha.)

[mannyamador]

Maganda claims:

Catholic friend: do you believe that good works like the sacraments are necessary for salvation? Do you consider it foolishness to believe that salvation can only be obtained through faith in Christ' s work on the cross? If so, God's Word warns that you will perish in hell.

Your own Bible contradicts you. Faith alone cannot save. It NEEDS good works.

James 2:16-25

"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not
have works? Can that faith save him?

If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one
of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give
them the necessities of the body, what good is it? So also faith of itself, if it does
not have works, is dead.

Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your
faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.

Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? Was not
Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the
works. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was
credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way,
was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the
messengers and sent them out by a different route? For just as a body without a
spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead."

The idea of "once saved, always saved" is irrational. That is a practical license to do anything no matter how evil, since, after all, it won't make any difference in temrs of one's salvation. And that's exactly what happened to Martin Luther. He justifed all sorts of debauchery, since it didn't make much difference in one's salvation.

"Once saved, always saved" is a direct contradiction of the verses quoted above. The idea is NOT Christian at all.

God bless!

[mannyamador]

Jesuit Vocation Seminar in Cebu

Sunday, September 18, 8:00am–4:00pm
Sedeno Prenovitiate House, Sacred Heart School-Jesuits, Cebu City

http://www.ateneo.edu/news.php?news_id=2948&office_id=7