Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?

[Tetrad]

obvious man gud diha sa bible that our faith is the one that justifies or saves us and good works is the outcome of that faith. so simple as that. we have to consider that the kind of faith that;s mentioned in ephesians is a saving faith, not a dead one.

[MavsMan]

yes, we are saved by grace through faith. I am not doing good works para maluwas. But Jesus said that we must abide in Him and that if we love Him, we must obey or keep His commandment.

CAN AN UNREPENTANT & DISOBEDIENT CHRISTIAN LOSE HIS SALVATION AND BE ETERNALLY LOST ?

John:15:1: I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

You see, the “branch in me” is a believer who has come to believe in the Lord Jesus, but we see that the Father taketh him away if he does not BEAR FRUIT, he is cast into the fire.

A DISOBEDIENT, UNREPENTANT CHRISTIAN CAN BE A CAST AWAY AND BE LOST FOREVER IN THE FLAMES OF HELL. TAKE CARE OF YOUR SALVATION. LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU, TELLING YOU THAT NO CHRISTIAN CAN BE LOST OR THAT ONCE YOU ARE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, TWISTING BIBLE VERSES LIKE THE devil.

-Othusitse Mmusi

[NapoleonBlownapart]

^^I will not subscribe to the idea that there is an unrepentant and disobedient Christian. To become a Christian you must repent and believe. Repentance is a must and it is not a one time repentance but a continual repentance. It is a mark of a true Christian. However, there are those who are professing Christians but are not Christians at all. They claim to be Christians but the fruit of the Spirit is not displayed in their lives, no genuine transformation as a result of repentance and faith. These people will be cut off and thrown into the fire. They did not lose their salvation because they have none from the beginning. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us(1 Jn.2).

[MavsMan]

The Never Really Saved
Argument Scrutinized

Is The Never Really Saved (Never Saved) Argument Valid and Consistent?

The never really saved response comes from eternal security proponents when their doctrine is being exposed as a license to sin. For a person to say that a professing Christian was never saved and always a false convert, if he turns away from God to sin, is fallacious in at least 7 different areas. If you are a Christian, carefully ponder the following so you can help others see the dangerous folly of the never saved declaration.


1. Never Really Saved Argument Denies We Can Tell Who Are Saved

For one to say a professing Christian who turns away from God to sin was never saved is also to deny that we can know who is saved and who is not by their present tense behavior. Such is clearly unscriptural:

This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. (1 John 3:10)

Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil. (1 John 3:7,8 )

We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:3,4)

The Bible is crystal clear that we can know them by their fruit (Mt. 7:16,17) and there is observable evidence of God’s saving grace:

News of this reached the ears of the church at Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas to Antioch. When he arrived and saw the evidence of the grace of God, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all their hearts. (Acts 11:22,23)

● To say a professing Christian who turns away from God to wickedness was never saved is to deny that others were ever able to identify him as a non-Christian before that happened.

2. The Never Saved Response is Inconsistent

For one to say a professing Christian who turns away from God to sin was never saved is also to have an inconsistent message. If those same teachers were consistent they would have to say David, Solomon and Peter were never saved because they backslid. David turned to adultery and murder (2 Sam. 11); Solomon turned to idolatry (1 Kings 11:4-10) and Peter disowned Jesus three times (Mt. 26:33,34). Both David and Peter repented and returned to God but Solomon continued in wickedness. There is no evidence that Solomon ever returned to God.

● To say a professing Christian who turns away from God to wickedness was never saved is to exclude prominent Biblical characters who were truly saved before terribly falling to that degree. On this basis alone, the never saved argument is destroyed.

3. The Never Really Saved Belief Denies Backsliding

To say a professing Christian who turns away from God to wickedness was never saved is to imply that true Christians will not turn away to sin but continue to obey God. But that type of message is often opposed and scoffed at by the same teachers. In other words, those same teachers declare Christians constantly sin in thought, word and deed. They also wrongly use Romans 7:14-25 for support and to teach that Paul was like that and such is the normal Christian life! Imagine that! They teach like that then turn 180 degrees around and teach the same crowd if you turn away you were never saved—two completely opposite teachings, yet their audience seems oblivious to it.

● To say a professing Christian who turns away from God to wickedness was never saved is also to teach that a true Christian will always obey God and never backslide, which is denied by their misuse of Rom. 7:14-25.

4. Never Saved Belief Ignores Many Scriptures

To say a professing Christian who turns away from God to wickedness was never saved is to ignore at least 26 Scriptures in the NT. They show people who previously were disciples and followers of Christ later fell away, turned away, went back, etc. and not once in those 2 dozen plus passages do we read because they became a spiritual tragedy by backsliding, that was evidence which proves they were never saved. Scripture shows it can be somewhat common for followers of Christ to turn to wickedness; get deceived into believing a false gospel; etc.

● To say a professing Christian who turns away from God to wickedness was never saved is also to display ignorance of those 26 Scriptures (plus all the other relevant Scriptures) which teach the opposite. (See The Believer’s Conditional Security, p. 632 for a listing of those Scriptures.)

5. Implies You Can Never Know Who Is Really Saved


To say a professing Christian who turns away from God to wickedness was never saved is also to teach you can never know if anyone is a Christian brother or sister, including the preacher himself who taught you this never really saved absurdity. Maybe he is just a false convert too.

Their doctrine would have us believe another’s salvation can’t be known as long as one remains alive, because as long as they remain alive they might apostatize and thereby prove they were never saved. If you can’t tell if another is a Christian then you can’t consider someone to be a spiritual leader or a possible spouse to marry, since both require true Christians.

● To say a professing Christian who turns away from God to wickedness was never saved is also to teach that no Christian can ever know another to be a possible spiritual leader or spouse for marriage.

6. The Never Saved Argument Misuses Scripture

To say a professing Christian who turns away from God to wickedness was never saved is only backed by two passages, which are both misused.
"I Never Knew You" (Mt. 7:23)

The first is Mt. 7:23 where Jesus tells continuous tense evildoers that he never knew them.

Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?” Then I will tell them plainly, “I NEVER KNEW YOU. Away from me, you evildoers!” (Mat 7:21-23)

The context shows the religious ones referred to there were never saved but were continuous tense evildoers. Those religious-but-continuous evildoers never had evidence of saving grace, that is, a freedom from sin addictions which occurs when one contacts the blood of Jesus at true conversion (Rom. 6:22; John 8:34-36; Rev. 1:5; etc.), but that doesn’t mean others who had a true conversion can’t shrink back, as the Bible shows has happened.

Furthermore, the never saved proponents focus in on the one and only passage which has the words never saved (or its equivalent), but conveniently overlook three passages which show others were also not known by the Lord Jesus, but not told they were never saved:

But he replied, “I tell you the truth, I don’t know you.” (Mat 25:12)


Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, “Sir, open the door for us.” But he will answer, “I don’t know you or where you come from.” (Luke 13:25)

But he will reply, “I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!” (Luke 13:27)

Jesus didn’t tell them, I never knew you, like in Mt. 7:23, but instead I don’t know you. That implies they were once known (saved), but later lost their salvation. This is especially clear with the 10 Virgins teaching (Mt. 25:1-13).
1 John 2:19

The second Scripture misused by the never saved OSAS crowd for support is 1 John 2:19, which refers to people who did not believe Jesus was the Christ, as shown in 1 John 2:22:

Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.

Their doctrine clearly excluded them from being a Christian. They too had no evidence of saving grace since they denied Jesus was the Christ.

● To say a professing Christian who turns away from God to wickedness was never saved is also to rely chiefly upon two Scriptures, both of which are misused and misapplied. Hence, there is no solid Biblical support for it. The people referred to in each never had evidence of saving faith because they were either continuous tense evildoers or doctrinally denied Jesus was the Christ.

7. Trying To Mask a License To Sin

To say a professing Christian who turns away from God to wickedness was never saved is also cited as an argument to conceal the license for immorality that the once saved always saved doctrine declares itself to be. When their doctrine gets exposed as the security in sin gospel or they notice gross immorality among those they have been preaching to, they then tend to mention their contradicting, inconsistent, double message with no Scriptural support—the never saved absurd argument.

With some people, it has actually succeeded in confusing the issue enough to conceal the glaring wickedness and salvation security in sin being taught through eternal security at other times.

● People who cite the never saved argument are either grossly ignorant of hundreds of Scriptures which counter the never saved doctrine or are intentionally hiding those related-but- contradictory-truths to preserve their own doctrine, which began with the devil himself in Gen. 3:4.

There are well over 100 relevant Scriptures which refute the never saved argument. They only have 2 verses, which are both misused and misapplied. Which will you believe?

One more point: Calvinist John MacArthur is one of the leading proponents (along with Ray Comfort) of this absurd unscriptural never saved (or false convert) argument. Yet MacArthur clearly teaches, at times, there are Christian adulterers, Christian drunks, Christian thieves, Christian liars, Christian murderers, etc.

[empire east]

faith

it means
believing with action.


without action. it is not faith.

[Tetrad]

that's what we meant by saving faith!
coz even mga sugarol, kawatan, they too have faith "kuno" but its the opposite of the one mentioned by miss empire.

[rics zalved]

let us put it this way na lang.........


1) Can our righteousness saves us?

Isaiah 64:6 - But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

2) So how are we saved?

Titus 3:5 - He (Jesus) saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

3) So are we licensed to sin because we are saved by his mercy?

Romans 6:12-16
New International Version (NIV)

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?


hope this helps...

[SioDenz]

^^I will not subscribe to the idea that there is an unrepentant and disobedient Christian. To become a Christian you must repent and believe. Repentance is a must and it is not a one time repentance but a continual repentance. It is a mark of a true Christian. However, there are those who are professing Christians but are not Christians at all. They claim to be Christians but the fruit of the Spirit is not displayed in their lives, no genuine transformation as a result of repentance and faith. These people will be cut off and thrown into the fire. They did not lose their salvation because they have none from the beginning. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us(1 Jn.2).

So you consider Repentant as a form of Good Works?

And if you done so many sins in your entire Life, then in your deathbed you repent, then Jesus Saves you - Unsay naka pa save nimu ana bro? Imung Buhat or ang Kaluooy sa DIOS tungod sa imung Pagtoo niya?

- - - Updated - - -

faith

it means
believing with action.


without action. it is not faith.

Thats why we cannot separated True Faith and Good Works because they are ONE.. So They are NOT separate Requirements for salvation...

[MavsMan]

There are group of believers that says once we accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour, God forgives our sins PAST, PRESENT, and FUTURE. Unsa may ma-istorya ninyu ani?

[ketllac]

Bro siodenz

sakto ka bro...faith and good works are one.. naa ni lawom nga basis kung mo traced back ta sa karaang understanding sa word nga faith..

yin and yang is similar in some way sa faith and good works. di nimo ma separate na concept in the context of salvation..nahimo ang duality katong time nga si Martin Luther naghimo iyang franchise. para malahi or dile plagiarism iya gi buhat, ni create siyag bag ong doctrine nga faith alone..remember martin luther is a german monk ang concept nga ang faith and works is somewhat "unitary" is alien sa iyaha kay di man siya Hebrew..