MERGED: Vigilantism and related issues

[BoyBastos]

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Who are you trying to impress boy, the people who sympathize with the masses? You sound like those old grandstanding politicians forming those committees and hearings " in aid of legislation "
By the time you finish trying to understand how criminality happens, how many victims will there be? Desperate times call for desperate measures. Not just a lot of people blowing hot air and wasting a lot of saliva arguing about the pros and cons.

my apologies if you find that rather strong post as quite offensive. i was merely stressing a point and emphasizing the severity of the situation that is present. if you find that sociological analysis on criminal deviance happens to contradict your opinion, then i am sorry if you feel so insecure when one places right before you something that you evidently haven't encountered yet, sir. if you feel that i am trying to impress you, then i do not care about that opinion of yours. what i care about is the weight of the arguments presented here, and not trivial childish mudslingings that you obviously want to initiate.

@gareb Apology accepted. You can do sociological anal- ysis on criminal deviance all you want, but in the meantime while you are still anal- yzing and consulting your handbooks helpless and innocent civilians continue to be victims of crime. And talking about your "theory of criminal deviance" which makes me feel soooo insecure, can you narrate to us your first hand experience which according to you I have not yet experienced. Have you ever been to these areas? Bato, Carbon. Barangay Ermita, Pasil, Kamagayan, Pardo. Try to ask the residents themselves whether or not they are in favor of killing these nototious criminals. I'm sure you don't live in one of the areas I mentioned, try to get the opinion of the residents on the matter. As you said, what you care about is the weight of the arguments presented here. Yes you are right, what we give are merely arguments not solutions so I think we should do well to just zip our mouths and let them do their job. Did I initiate what you call trivial childish mudslinging? Or were your feelings hurt, because what I said was true? When I mentioned a lot of people blowing hot air and wasting a lot of saliva arguing about the pros and cons. I was not singling you out. When I said that I mean everyone. And that includes me. Yes ME. If you can't accept criticism from someone else try to take a look at the mirror whether what other people say is true or not.

But while you are still looking for the solution we need to see some action. What you have is a good long term solution, but for the meantime we need a short term solution.

action, in itself, is part of the solution. short term and long range plans must coincide. to not do so would render each to negate one another. the idea that you present as a 'short term' solution is a haphazard move that cannot even morally justify itself, and destroys more than we create. it is a reflection of how we want instant solutions to problems which are larger than what they seem.

@gareb Ok, now so you agree that action is a part of the solution. Well good, maayo nga nakasabot naka. Two sentences later you call this solution a haphazard move. Which is which? your contradicting yourself.

if we want immediate solutions, [b]we have to realize first that any effort that does not put grave importance to existing social conditions is ultimately futile.

@gareb Yes, it may be futile but you got to start somewhere. And if you don't try to solve the problem you might never know the answer. It's better to have tried and failed than to keep your silence and later on wonder WHAT IF? We should not be afraid to fail. We are not judged by how many times we fail. The most important thing is to get up and go on with our journey through life even if there are obstacles in our way, or even if we stumble along the way. In other words fight!!! If you stumble don't wait for somebody else ot pick you up. do it yourself. That's the problem with our society we always want the easy way out.

[b] we have been placing countless criminals in jail only to see them commit crime again when they go out into the streets. we have seen crime rates go up. and we have been doing this for years now. isn't this evidence enough that we have a problem that goes deeper than mere attribution of crime to the individual criminal. while you go around placing snatchers, hold-uppers, drug pushers, etc. in jail. are you addressing the chronic failure of our 'rehabilitation centers'?

@gareb So seeing that your proposed solution of trying these criminals and sending them to jail is a failure. What do you plan to do? Do the same thing over and over again? Or do you look for another solution?

or the chronic poverty that plagues us? or the inefficiency of our government offices? or the inherent self-contradictions within the social structure?

This is the easiest way out. Point your fingers at somebody else. Blame somebody else for your failures. What do you want? Do you want the government to take care of you from birth until death? No my friend you have to stand by your own. If you succeed in life you accept the accolades but if you fail do you then blame it on the government?

solution to ballooning unemployment entrepreneurship. be your own boss be self employed. Ang tao nga maningkamot dili mapasmo.

entrepreneurship with what capital? to compete with cheap imports?

@gareb Our greatest capital is not money. It is our own self. What is one of the Philippines biggest dollar earners? Our OFW's of course, unsa may puhunan nila? Di ba ilang singot ug kahago? And by the way entrepreneurship is not limited to manufacturing goods. It is small scale business. How about opening a small carenderia, barbecue stall, manghugas ka ug auto sa inyong silingan para makakwarta. What does cheap imports have to do with that? And even with cheap imports, If it's cheap and you can't compete with their prices why not sell their products instead. Be creative man, don't put yourself in a box.

i suggest you re-assess the current economic situation and see why only a very limited segment of the population can benefit from entrepreneurship.

@gareb Is it because the majority of the population think the way you do? I don't think so, I think you belong to the minority. Filipinos are known to be very resilient and are survivors even through the hardest of times. I think your the one who needs to r@gareb eassess your current economic situation based on your limited understanding of entrepreneurship. Go take a business course.

Do you think these people rob so they can send their kids to study at Sacred Heart or San Carlos? Ooooowwwww Come on, tell that to the marines boy.

perhaps not these people. but surely another does. do corruption from people from a higher socio-economic class ring a familiar bell to the marines?

@gareb Hoy kanang mga people from higher socio-economic class dili na kinahanglan mangsnatch oi. Bisan pa ug dili na sila mangawat maka pa eskwela na sila sa ilang mga anak sa exclusive schools oi. Mangawat na sila para i suporta sa mga kabit ug ilang mga kapritso.

what you paint is a ridiculous idea provided that most of snatchers in the streets are not exactly students from either CDC, USC or even Velez College. please let us not kid ourselves and create stupid illusions.

@gareb I did not paint this ridiculous idea. I was simply giving an answer to what you said in the previous post.

Implement the law!!! Show them that " CRIME DOES NOT PAY !!! "

there you have it. implement the law. stop the summary executions. they are against the law. crime does not pay. and supporting 'salvagings' should also not pay, since it is a crime.

@gareb What is the basic law? If you commit a crime you should be punished. Di ba? It just so happens that you deem the punishment to be too harsh. So answer my question, do you agree that criminals should be punished? A simple Yes or No will do.

It is not the fault of the state if someone is unwilling to remold or rehabilitate. It is the felons themselves who are unwilling. They have been to jail and still they refuse to reform.

We did not disregard the process, the process was a failure.

i was under the impression that you deem the justice system as BULOK, or in other words, ineffective. and the penitentiary system as not exactly producing 'penitents'. incidentally these institutions are controlled by the state.

@gareb That was your impression not mine.

and now you conveniently say that it is not the fault of the state that these institutions have not succeeded in producing remolded individuals. is it not like saying that these institutions have not functioned properly?

@gareb Just because there are a few rotten apples who refuse to "remold" themselves does not mean that the whole instituition has failed. The state can only do so much. Even God cannot remold these guys, because we all have been given what is known as Free Will. We do whatever we want to do. We can choose to obey or disobey the state. So if these criminals choose to disobey the state deliberately. Kinsa man nang sala? Ayaw kog ingna nga sala gihapon na sa institution. The institution is there to save those who want to be saved. Do you label yourself a failure because you tried to do something and failed? If you succeed 8 times and fail 2 times Is that a failure? I don't think so.

in essence, there is something wrong with the way the state handles these institutions, contrary to what you suggest that it take a hands off approach and point the blaming finger to the criminals themselves. bear i mind that these prisoners are under the custody of the state.

@gareb Kung ang tao bisag unsaon ug tambag dili gyud maminaw kay gahi ug ulo. Bisag gi unsa ug badlong mao lang gihapon. Kinsa man nang sala? Sa nagbadlong O sa badlungun? It's that simple.

and now we place the short-sighted idea of summary executions which essentially subverts the state and its laws, neglecting our basic assumption at the first place that there is something wrong with the justice and penitentiary system.

sounds like trying to escape a problem to me.

@gareb From your viewpoint you may see it as a try to escape a problem.
But to me that's what I call trying to solve a problem. What this country needs are people who are willing to tackle problems. We need men of action not just thinkers or dreamers. Dream on boy.

[BoyBastos]

If only GOD forbids that all the victims of the tsunami in Asia will all be criminals then i'll wholeheartedly pray for that. AMEN

Bai tolstoi Agree kaayo ko ana. Kung mao nay mahitabo, labi pag ma apil ang stronghold ni Ecleo sa Dinagat Island. mag sayaw sayaw gyud ko ug sinulog atubangan sa Magellan's Cross. Unya musimba ko sa tanang simbahan (Katoliko, Buddhist, Taoist, Iglesia, Mormons, Protestante) para magpasalamat. Lord, ang mga criminal ra ha? ayaw lang apila ang mga sympathizers nila kay basin pa diay ug ma "remold" pa na sila. Bato Bato sa langit ang matamaan huwag magalit.

[M@rv|n]

btaw we need lacson

[FK]

Mo too jud ko nga ang poverty is not a reason to commit crime (labi na ang panulis). Kay kong tinuod pa ni... hapit 80% sa Pilipinas tulisan.

naa ba ni sa balaod kanang accumulation sa imo sala. pareho kong trabaho ka.

1st offense: written reprimand.
2nd offense: 1 week suspension.
3rd offense: termination.

Naa onta ni ingon ani noh...
Basta madakpan. tatak na dayon nga sala, bisan og pasaylo-on sa biktima.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

Commonsense ang gamiton ana kay mismo kita kabalo unsa ka bulok ang judicial system nato . Mao lage na gi ingon na at least naay resulta karon . Kamong mga nagpakamaayo kunuhay kabalo mo kinsa mo , gipadagan ra ninyo inyong idelohiya , look at the bigger picture and not the small picture . Of course bigger fish needs bigger budget , smaller fish requires a smaller budget busa mao na siyang stepping stone ra siya . Hinaut kamong anti hunters TULISON mo karong gabi-una !! Unya pamusilon pod mo na samdan lang di patyon ba aron maka reply pa mo ani !!

[noy timoy]

2 all against the formation of hunters team.>>f ur not the one being victimized by these lawless elements of the society u might wonder why should be done like this?. y not the law run after them? but if u are one of the victims makaingon man gyud ka ug mayra ug mamatay tong tawhana...sus pwerte daghana pamalikas nahurot na gud tanang pamalikas ug yaw2x...unya karon against2x mo!
haskang lawgawa gyud! sakto jud c bai SPRINGFIELD nga mas maayo ug kamoy tulison sunod nya pusilon dli lang PATYON ARON KA REPLY PA ANI.......OR BAI SPRINGFIELD PUSILON CLA NGA 50/50 ang ila life aron makahuna2x jud ug tarong...Hik...Hik....Hik..
i'd go 4 it if its clear that he/she is really a criminal.... w/ proof of criminal records.

[crinkle]

for me, it's not whether or not you've been in that scenario. what matters to me is this kind of team existing somewhat scares the criminals away and therefore, causing crime rates to go down...

[uzumaki]

hmmm...sad to say but personally i sense naa dinhi law practitioner im not pointing anyone but the logic behind is this death squad are a bit menace their integrity and profession sa yo nan kag wla nay mo koha nila kay wla nay litigants dats y against jod cla ani kay wla na onya clay ka totoyan...ehehehe!

[MelodyMan]

mas maau jud maka sulay...mas maau nga one of their family or sila mismo ma pusilan ba..basaha nalang ang post ni SPRINGFIELD_XD_40...hehehe..banat SPRINGFIELD_XD_40!!!

"dats y against jod cla ani kay wla na onya clay ka totoyan"

naa sad kay point uzumaki...

[BoyBastos]

Sakto gyud ka Springfield_XD_40. Lahi ra ang theory compared to what you experience in the real world. Puro lang na sila base sa imported nga libro nga gibasa nila. Kaning mga tawhana dili man ni nimo makit an sa colon ug carbon, na a ra man ni sila mag suroyan sa uptown or Ayala. Pa adto a kuno ni sila sa colon or carbon di ba dili gyud ni sila mu adto kay mahadlok tulison or ma isnatchan. Unya magpa as if as if pa gyud nga malu oy kuno sila sa mga criminals.