MERGED: Lifting of Travel Ban to Iraq

[boy_kulot]

daghan na kaayo og jobs sa Qatar, & open nasad ang Taiwan (+ naa pay guam)..nganong kinahanglan paman ang Iraq man jud ablihan? nga di man tawn safe didto. Way ayo nga senador, ngita lang guro og paagi asa niya matapak ang iyang budget. para ingnon nga naa silay trabahao..Di jud ko uyon ani kay klaro kaayo ning kita ray giilad ani..

sis...murag lahi man imong agenda sa imong comments. pag basa sa ug news para ikaw mismo kahibaw sa imong gibasihan sa comments. bisag si Noli De Castro mismo is pro sa lifting sa ban. he is aware nga dunay lugar sa iraq nga medyo heated pa, and he is also aware nga there parts of iraq that is economically active. pareho rana diri sa atua nga ang tumoy sa mindanao gubot pero inig abot sa visayas ug luzon ok ra.

http://www.philstar.com/microsite/no...CategoryId=200

and this is another article from:

UN lifts key sanctions against Iraq - Action News 5 - Memphis, Tennessee

laos na gyud nang balitaa nga delikado ang iraq, mas peligro pa sa yemen ug libya ron panahuna.

[nealotol]

kugihan man gud tang mga pinoy,,, ato ning tabangan ang ubang nasod,,

[Eve's Apple Project]

@ storya_ta_bai2 & boy_kulot: before ko mo start, di tawn ko sis bai...hehehe..

on Topic: i am not an economist nor i hold any seat in the political arena, that being said, wa ko kabalo unsay ilang gipanghisgotan or gihunahuna/Agenda. But clearly we can do our own research .That is what i do, & maybe i have limited time to do that coz parehas guro ninyo (di lang ko sure), nagtrabaho sad ko. I am not fond of watching Telenovelas & gameshows (maybe you do?). i love watching news, read news, & listen to news (please i urge you to listen to Bantay OFW-RMN manila -labi na if OFW mo). I admire your passion for pushing people to go to iraq. I have no "Hidden Agenda" as di man sad ko tag-iya og employment agency (as Boy_Kulot stated), but just a concerned OFW to future fellow ofws. Di lang sa nako tas-on ha..here are my points (for the sake of discussion ni ato ha):

1) on OWWA/POEA issues: how many cases have been filed on illegal recruitment, maltreatment, underpayment of OFWs has been filed & solved? Wa pani labot ang mga gipangpangayoan og SOBRA NGA PLACEMENT FEEs sa mga employment agencies/ illegal agencies. if the percentage of the solve cases is above 80 percent then i would would rest my case. Bravo to them. if someone has a statistic report on that, it will be better to share it, dont you think?

2) On Safety in Iraq: you mentioned, that about 8,000 OFWs are working INSIDE THE GREEN ZONE(with 100K salary). do you know why they are in the green zone? & do you know why they have such Huge salaries? Ginunsa gani nila pagsulod didto nga banned man pagsulod? it is because noone else (who is compitent liek us pinoys) is willing to risk their lives to go there . and 2000+ USD (more or less 100K pesos) is not a big salary for them (about a fresh grads salary in the US more or less) , but dako na para nato. They can't hire more americans on that salary alone (+ the OFWs they hire has experience, & di reklamador). wa pay labot ang pressure sa mga americans who wants soldiers to return home. If seamen have hazard pay bai, so much more na cguro if adto ka sa isa ka war-torn country like Iraq. isn't that logical?

recent news: (cnn)

Attacks kill 6 in Iraq - CNN

maybe ubos na ang case, but pila naman ang namatay, & can somebody stop it? i don't think so. maybe if IRAQ can stand alone without US support. But until that happens random violence will still occur.

3) Unemployment in Iraq: recently, i try not to watch the news kay ako wife moreklamo na nako magcge rako yaw2..hehe taas na raba kaayo ko'g cholesterol. hehe. see the sttached link (cnn). it is about their locals who has no can't find jobs.

Ban: Iraq needs to address grass-roots discontent - CNN.com

so, when they said they need workers, asa man sila nagpangita? why didn't they Hire their own locals? well centainly they have their own reasons. but is it logical/economical to hire foreigners? (china would argue..research about china's foreigner employment..you will see a big drop)


this might be OT but here it is anyway:

Higher education : Nurses, seamen, PT, (even Doctors) etc.. think kuno mga bai, if moskwela ka aning mga korsoha unsa man ang rason nga moskwela ka ani? or unsa ang tuyo sa parents? Dba ang i-ingon nila kay dako og sweldo sa gawas or para larga abroad? so nagpasabot na daan nga di ka manarbaho sa pinas. Currently, daghan under paid nga nurses sa pinas karon bai + ang uban wa na gani sweldo para lang maka experience para work gawas. So diha daan bai, naa na tay problema & our gov't should think of ways to solve it. dili pag work sa gawas ang solution sa tanan bai. like sa ako na example china & singapore. wa sila nagkinahanglan nga mo langyaw ilang mga citizens para lang makakita og work ,especially ang china, stricto kaayo sila sa ilang mga tao nga mogawas (you can do your research on that). forgive me if you think that i have it all wrong (maybe i need to do more research). I don't have the power to change peoples minds, di man ko politician & besides, wa koy ikabayad sa tao para moagree sa ako POV. the only people who will benefit on this would be Politicians (for publicity i think?), Employemnt Agency (patas-an sad ning placement fee ron. remember: 1 month salary ra ang gi allow sa gov't nga placement fee..anything beyond that is illegal, if you want..do your research please).

IMHO, we need Cha-Cha, we need Anti-political Dynasty law, more than risk sending OFWs in Iraq ( sorry for those who doesn't agree). Why? ma super OT nya ta..wehehe

[Eve's Apple Project]

@ Boy_kulot: bai, i failed to mention (taas kaayo ako gi post gud hehehe). Goverment can't control, but it is their duty to protect us. IRAQ as i have showed you the most updated link from CNN, is not yet safe. Green zone is called that way for a reason (dont you think)? Oh, by the way, the gov't already failed a lot of times on our OFW's welfare, we only saw the victories on TV kay publicity man na...but how bout percentage lang. My sister & my cousin were both DH (jordan & kuwait; NO WAR didto), they were UNDERPAID, & maltreated. did OWWA or our embassy helped them? ah.. let's just say they were lucky to be alive.let's be frank, pila man ka tao ang naa sa embassy? if OFW ka, suroy ra gud sa embassy bai..then tell me if they give you good service that we deserve. We paid them to be in that county in the first place right? They are undermanned bai..so if you ask the gov't to protect them, HOW on earth can they do it? diri man gani sa pinas di nila kaya, unsa pa kaha sa abroad (without police power sila didto).

[storya_ta_bai2]

@ storya_ta_bai2 & boy_kulot: before ko mo start, di tawn ko sis bai...hehehe..


IMHO, we need Cha-Cha, we need Anti-political Dynasty law, more than risk sending OFWs in Iraq ( sorry for those who doesn't agree). Why? ma super OT nya ta..wehehe

i would surely disagree on the cha-cha. There are more ways to resolve political and economical issues than that. this is not about any poliiticians publicity stunts to gain popularity. Afterall, these officials are expected to do their jobs by providing opportunities and securing the welfare of filipinos.

What you have clearly stated is that plenty are maltreated in other countries, yes that is true. but how about those whos lives have become better because of risking their lives abroad You cannot generalize everything, everyones fate is different but we cannot blame everything in the system. I am for the lifting of the travel ban, we have been waiting so long as skilled workers to earn and provide the needs for our families yet even if we reach our retirement age here in the philippines we only get soo little.

maybe the experiences you have cited here are too overwhelming for you that you seem to be blinded and refused to see the good things that it has contributed to us Filipinos. There is no stopping Filipinos from going out of the country because the truth is the jobs here are scarce. But the government is not that blind not to see what's going on. That is why there is an on going talk between the government of iraq and the philippines to provide a more secure working areas for our ofws.

di baya na ingon nga ihansak rana ang mga pinoy didto, of course the government of iraq is not that stupid to invite foreign workers if they know themselves nga delikado pana didto.

[Eve's Apple Project]

@ storyahi_ta_bai: let's agree to disagree then..but for the sake of discussion on being "Against the lifting the ban to Iraq"

I would beg to disagree with you on telling me that i am blinded by the situation i have been used too seeing/listening. I hope you can do more research on current events (+ past political fiasco remember fertilizer fund, etc.?). Yes, there "Would" be gains in going to iraq, but the risk & danger is higher bai. Lets be logical, taas ang sweldo because of the "rule on supply & demand". Taas ang demand + walay supply = mahal ang sweldo. If lift na, i bet gamay na na ang sweldo. another Logic bai: karon man gani nga ban ang pag-adto, makasulod paman gihapon gani ang mga pinoy. this clearly is a sign nga if malift na, kinsa may makacontrol sa pinoy nga mo gawas sa green zone? then ato dayon pasanginlan ang Gov't nga wa sila na protect? I've already established that our gov't can't protect us 100%. Even sa cebu bai, you see that everyday. walk around the streets at downtown or adto sa nearest police station, they might show you reports.

The answer to our employment problem bai is creating more business bai (aside sa education). so "NO' i am not for deployment to IRAQ. we need our gov't to open more EPZA around our country. we need to give more tax exemptions to "would be investors" & create more laws to encourage more investors to come to our country. this is what Vietnam & china did (you can research on that). I might be wrong since i only do my research during my free time & i don't take it seriously. But clearly our politicians should be able to do better research since they are paid to do that, don't you think? we give them our TAXES worth THousands/MILLIONS on every law they can create dont we?

on IRaq Gov't: bai, like what CNN (as recent i could find) has posted naglisod na og pangita ang mga locals didto og trabaho. then mo add pa hinoon og Foreigners? asa man ang Logic ana bai? sa pinas bai, example ha, mosugot ta nga daghan Indonesians/Bangladeshi/Indians ang mowork sa pinas karon bai? d jud diba kay naglisod na gani ta pangita og work, pun-an pa og taga laing lugar. Di ba kaha ta mo strike ana? another fake People power nasad? In malaysia bai, last year nag strict ilang country hiring foreign workers from bangladesh/nepal because nag kuwang na og work ang mga locals..but unfortunately di man ganahan ilang mga locals mo work og factory maong ni request ang mga Businessmen nila nga usbon ang balaod para makapadayon ilang business. i would say this is a good example of local businessmen & Politicians working together to achieve a common goal (but this is not perfect ha). Create more business for the country & for the people before ka mo opt for foreign workers. i encourage you to do a research about Hong kong employment bai. Even sa HK dili sayon ang paghire og foreigners unless if Puti ka kay ngita sila og Executives didto. Look at Singapore, maybe kabalo sad ka nga naay times nga papaulion nila ang mga foreigners pagmalisod na sila sa local employment (if someone here is from singapore please correct me if i am wrong). That is how a gov't should work bai. so for IRAQ to open doors for foreigners is not logical, unless the US is backing that up. if naa pa ang US didto, i think they would rather be around Pinoys(& not pakistanis ha) than be with the locals bai kay mahadlok sad na sila og suicide bombers. won't you agree? if wala na ang US troops didto bai, and stable na ang gov't nila, then maybe we can say ok ra moadto kay ang ila local police kaya naman ang situation. kay karon bai, even with HIGHLY Equipped US soldiers di man gihapon ka prevent sa rebels/Suicide bombers bai.


if i was able to do a small research on my examples, unsa pa kaha ang mga politico. BTW, OFW sad ko bai, i am one of the lucky ones. yes, i know the benefits, but i also see the disadvantages espcially sa mga blue collar jobs(there are a lot of articles are about this, wa pay labot ang maltreatments & abuse). So, for me..we are being manipulated to think we are poor & the oppurtunity which was supposed to be found in our country kay wala na. WHy is that? let's ask our Politicians.M. Villar, Bro Eddie villanueva & even Dick gordon discussed this last time sa Meeting de avance/Debate sa cebu.I hope naminaw ka adto nila before you voted. we need to attract Investors to solve our problems bai. lets ask ourselves bai, how did South Korea rise as a country? was it really because of their Overseas Workers? while we on the otherhand,chose to send workers outside (i hope you can listen to Glock 9's recent song about OFWs bai). we are already in a cycle bai, start >OFW parents sending money to family in pinas > sending their kids on expensive schools to study nursing/doctors/ PT's etc > encourage them someday they can also go out of the country> then they become OFW themselves (complete cycle).... while our politicians, are in our country> sends they kids outside the country to study @ prestigous schools like Harvard, etc.> then someday come back to pinas to be become politicians/actors...so isn't that manipulation?

so i would say i hope we do REALLY wake up..we are on a cycle here. Going to iraq is not a solution.
oh, remmber when GMA closed a Deal with QATAR years ago? so are we any richer? did prices in the pinas went down? again, this is a cycle, how to we break it? our politicians knew the answer( I bet they do).

[storya_ta_bai2]

in reference to what you call political changes, we have to admit that it requires a major overhaul...refusals to any opportunities will also be there. But going back to what you said that despite the travel ban plenty of Filipinos goes to Iraq even with the ban....If this ban was just lifted then these workers would have been documented. Refer to the resolution that was signed on the senate bai. The reasons were cited why the need for this ban to be reviewed. If you think that our OFWS in iraq now are having security problems, that I'm sure they themselves can disagree on your assumptions (basaha ni bai)

Kapalaran ng mga OFW sa Iraq posibleng malaman sa susunod na linggo - Pinoy Abroad - GMA News Online - Latest Philippine News

or go through my previous post on this thread so you can be enlightened on their current situation there. As what i also mentioned to you, the government of iraq will not invite foreign workers if they themselves know that there is still a REAL threat to the security situation in their own country.

Yes that is a given that plenty of their people are looking for jobs but what they need MOST from us Filipinos are skilled workers in the Construction and Healthcare industry. Arroyo has made some crappy decisions including placing that travel ban and pulling out the Filipino Peace Corp. This has the resulted into an international humiliation against our country.

And now the US is even funding Millions and millions of dollars to the reconstruction stage of Iraq. The United Nations also lifted its 19 year sanctions to Iraq. Countries like India and Pakistan has lifted the ban as well. First world countries has regained its trust to Iraq and is even investing not just money but sending their own people to aid the new Iraq. For so many years our government has been a hypocrite for not seeing the changes. We are so quick to assume that Iraq is a land mine, didnt other countries condemned as us such when they hear bombings in Mindanao

Bottomline is there is no stopping our government from lifting this ban. One thing I know is this has been endorsed to the senate and on going talks are in placed for both countries. So for people like me who favors this ban to be lifted, then we remain hopeful.

[Eve's Apple Project]

@ storya_ta_bai2: Like i said, i dont think that we can/will ever agree on this topic. I follow my logic, while you follow yours. & yes, i agree with you that it is up to our gov't weither or not it is the good thing to do. We paid them to do it, so i hope they did study it Thoroughly. I am still hopeful that one day things will change in our country. unfortunately it will not be soon (not even after Pnoy's term).

[high_heels]

we have to give credit though to the philippine government for looking at this as an altertative source of work for those who are interest in the middle east. But the two governments should also prioritize the working conditions and identify key locations in iraq for our ofws to work in. Di lang gyud unta mahitabo nga maski asa ra ipamutang ang mga ofw nato, so dapat naa gyud minimum requirements and mas striktohon niya ang pag dawat sa mga aplekante.

With this move, I am hoping nga matabangan sad ta sa gobyerno sa iraq nga ma-us-usan ang ka mahal sa gasolina. Since Iraq is a country rich in oil, im sure chicken ra kaayo ni nila nga agreement.

[high_heels]

and just to add lang to what Ive been posting here.....This is not to discriminate though but in terms of assistance, our various embassies are required to provide support most specially to DOCUMENTED/LEGAL workers. This is to educate future illegal workers to follow the regular process and should not allow themselves to be victims of illegal recruiters. from my analysis most of those who I think are neglected by our consular/embassies in other countries are those who are TNT's (whatever you want to call it).

Let's site the case of Angelo Dela Cruz...when he was kidnapped in Iraq he was actually an ILLEGAL OFW. But since he is a Filipino the government was still obligated to assist him. Therefore for me, if workers are expecting full assistance from our government agencies, they should also take the responsibility of working in other countries in the PROPER and LEGAL ways.