Rites of Brotherhood.

[brownprose]

But then INITIATION RITES will never be abolished as a TRADITION . Maybe you are talking about HAZING .. abi nako 2 kabuok imohang FRAT ? One is a LOCAL and one is from Europe ? LOLZ !!

The problem with you dodong is that you don't read well my post. I said "on the part of initiation" and yes Hazing is what I meant...You can go on brag or be arrogant about ur knowledge about frats because we know thats the only thing you know in your life......lols.

And if you really are curious about my frats -- try Google again. LOLs. Happy hunting!

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

The problem with you dodong is that you don't read well my post. I said "on the part of initiation" and yes Hazing is what I meant...You can go on brag or be arrogant about ur knowledge about frats because we know thats the only thing you know in your life......lols.

Hehehe suko diay . Bitaw fafah Brownie , did you really mean HAZING instead of INITIATION RITES ?

Ikaduha ... call it BRAGGING and ARROGANT on my KNOWLEDGE within it like I really care ... I can always back up my caca because I know what I am talking about . Do you ?

And if you really are curious about my frats -- try Google again. LOLs. Happy hunting!

Why would I be CURIOUS when it is OBVIOUS ?

OT : BTW .. the only time I use google is when I am on the prowl for some VOYEUR ACTION . LOLS !! Want some access ?


[/quote]

[brownprose]

@Springy

My reply
fyi, i never get "suko" in forum sites as you say... as a matter of fact i enjoy them...like your posts (makes me really laugh)...honest. bisag di ko kasakay sa imong views malingaw lang ko how u defend them to death...ok man sab na, ayaw lang palabi kay atakihon nya ka...istorya ra man ni dire.

No.2, i dont need to defend to death as you do. whether you or anyone accepts with grain of salt with i say here, i don't get affected at all. and yes, i know what i'm talking equally or even more than you do. no matter how you say it that i dont know what i'm talkin' it's all really up to you...and i dont really care. ur problem really is u can't defend ur views well...u quote and attack w/ personal insults to posters that u disagree with...pero ok ra gihapon dodong...kay we understand that there are really people like you - a frat fanatic/cult LOLs

About my frats -- yah, call me a frat fake...with/without my frat affiliation - i can still live an honorable and non-violent life. Besides i have never been a proud frat member nor they are more honorable than my affiliation with Mensa International or Greenpeace.

Back to the topic and for your easy understanding Madam Springy, Hazing or part of the Rites of Brotherhood has never served any neophyte any better than violence, insult and injury -- this is an incontrovertible fact most fraternities miserably fail to get away with and that includes your and my frats or any organization for that matter, that believes in the violent tradition of Hazing.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

My reply
fyi, i never get "suko" in forum sites as you say... as a matter of fact i enjoy them...like your posts (makes me really laugh)...honest. bisag di ko kasakay sa imong views malingaw lang ko how u defend them to death...ok man sab na, ayaw lang palabi kay atakihon nya ka...istorya ra man ni dire.

I dont DEFEND to DEATH what needs to be DEFENDED . I am inclined more on EDUCATING and letting the iSTORYANS know what really is going on contrary sa mga " most " opinions here na BRAINWASHED na kaau .

No.2, i dont need to defend to death as you do. whether you or anyone accepts with grain of salt with i say here, i don't get affected at all. and yes, i know what i'm talking equally or even more than you do. no matter how you say it that i dont know what i'm talkin' it's all really up to you...and i dont really care. ur problem really is u can't defend ur views well...u quote and attack w/ personal insults to posters that u disagree with...pero ok ra gihapon dodong...kay we understand that there are really people like you - a frat fanatic/cult LOLs

Refer to my post above . I am not defending anything from your opinionated attacks . I am mere EDUCATING your IGNORANCE about the ISSUE .

About my frats -- yah, call me a frat fake...with/without my frat affiliation - i can still live an honorable and non-violent life. Besides i have never been a proud frat member nor they are more honorable than my affiliation with Mensa International or Greenpeace.

Lolz ... unya basin mo ingon ka ha na i GOOGLE nako ang MENSA ug GREENPEACE hahaha !!

Back to the topic and for your easy understanding Madam Springy, Hazing or part of the Rites of Brotherhood has never served any neophyte any better than violence, insult and injury -- this is an incontrovertible fact most fraternities miserably fail to get away with and that includes your and my frats or any organization for that matter, that believes in the violent tradition of Hazing.

True ... apektado gyud ang uban members ilabi na sa FRATERNITIES , ambot lang imohang " FRAT " kung apektado ba mo lols .

Seriously ... another form of IGNORANCE . The FRATMAN you are should know better but then dili man ka FRATMAN but nangangkon lang so you will NEVER EVER know . That is why I am here to let you know fafa Brownie . But then if you think I am shoving it up to your nalgas , este throat ... its not . Its just the way it is . The FACTS and the TRUTH ... just like what you said earlier ... WALAY KAY MAHIMZ ana ...

[The_Child]

Unsa may motivation mo apil og Fraternities(not to be confused with Barkada)?

They said its the lack of balls to stand on ones own feet to face the music of reality. Unsa kaha ni katinuod?
The Herd Mentality?

[cebu-future]

I think the people who join frats are the ones that they think they are alone and no one loves him/her or no one cares for him/her. So they join this barkada kuno thing.

[brownprose]

@Springy

I admire your courage in defense of the frat you serve or in behalf of the other frats (ayaw nalang to i apil akong frats kay matud pa nimo bogus man kaha to ...anyway, as i've said all over i don't need to reveal my affiliation here...and if you really so insist, i can tell you/show this in person and that includes my affiliation with Mensa and Greenpeace...no kidding...this time no more Google) But more than anything else here, and I think the most important in this thread, is the recognition of the very basic facts about fraternities...this isn't about trying to stereotype all fraternities but let me educate (as you want it) our fellow istoryans the reality that exists or common to most fraternities and I think i've mentioned this in other threads:

1) Hazing (Part of the Initiation Rites). The public outrage against it is so deep that people want to outlaw frats (which I don't necessarily agree entirely) because of its unreasonable violence. And most frats can't seem to get rid of it despite the many deaths brought by it. This is the issue the public is against of and which most fraternities refuse or can't just take away from. I don't need to say if this is just my opinion -- this is the opinion of many or i should say many governments, parents, civic groups and many others.

No matter how much we defend the tradition of hazing - it is simply wrong and it is not right in the eyes of the public. Only fraternity people (but not all) understand it's significance but its necessity no longer holds any sense at all to this day and age from the point of reason and rights of persons.

2) Refusal to take responsibility of leaders that conduct hazing. I don't recall a leader from a frat that take responsibility of a neophyte's death that ensue after hazing. Fraternities do hazing without regard for accountability to injuries or death. In most cases, leaders hide or hire a battery of lawyers and drag to litigation to wash them of any accountability. Glaring examples of which are the frat members involved in the following frat cases: Lenny De Villa (Aquila Legis); Cris Mendez (Sigma Rho); Alexander Miguel Icasiano (Alpha Phi Beta) and many others.

3) Hide Hazing in Initiation Manuals. Fraternities banner every good virtue they espouse in their website, insignia, frat anthems and every document they want to show to the public. Behind all the facade, is the violence that has been going on for generations and are never part of the frat's documents that are open to public scrutiny or buried in many of their other un-acceptable traditions that they have been keeping for so long without even the benefit of review to find meaning and purpose to such process.

The list is too long to mention here. They still continue to exist despite the toll, injuries and the averse public opinion. You're right springy, not all public opinions are right - but in this case, they can never be wrong. You don't need to educate the public about hazing they know well what they are. They don't need to even look the dictionary what that monster is - because the monster in hazing is in the faces of those who were bereaved or victims of it - That is the fact.

[marc francis]

@Springy

I admire your courage in defense of the frat you serve or in behalf of the other frats (ayaw nalang to i apil akong frats kay matud pa nimo bogus man kaha to ...anyway, as i've said all over i don't need to reveal my affiliation here...and if you really so insist, i can tell you/show this in person and that includes my affiliation with Mensa and Greenpeace...no kidding...this time no more Google) But more than anything else here, and I think the most important in this thread, is the recognition of the very basic facts about fraternities...this isn't about trying to stereotype all fraternities but let me educate (as you want it) our fellow istoryans the reality that exists or common to most fraternities and I think i've mentioned this in other threads:

1) Hazing (Part of the Initiation Rites). The public outrage against it is so deep that people want to outlaw frats (which I don't necessarily agree entirely) because of its unreasonable violence. And most frats can't seem to get rid of it despite the many deaths brought by it. This is the issue the public is against of and which most fraternities refuse or can't just take away from. I don't need to say if this is just my opinion -- this is the opinion of many or i should say many governments, parents, civic groups and many others.

No matter how much we defend the tradition of hazing - it is simply wrong and it is not right in the eyes of the public. Only fraternity people (but not all) understand it's significance but its necessity no longer holds any sense at all to this day and age from the point of reason and rights of persons.

2) Refusal to take responsibility of leaders that conduct hazing. I don't recall a leader from a frat that take responsibility of a neophyte's death that ensue after hazing. Fraternities do hazing without regard for accountability to injuries or death. In most cases, leaders hide or hire a battery of lawyers and drag to litigation to wash them of any accountability. Glaring examples of which are the frat members involved in the following frat cases: Lenny De Villa (Aquila Legis); Cris Mendez (Sigma Rho); Alexander Miguel Icasiano (Alpha Phi Beta) and many others.

3) Hide Hazing in Initiation Manuals. Fraternities banner every good virtue they espouse in their website, insignia, frat anthems and every document they want to show to the public. Behind all the facade, is the violence that has been going on for generations and are never part of the frat's documents that are open to public scrutiny or buried in many of their other un-acceptable traditions that they have been keeping for so long without even the benefit of review to find meaning and purpose to such process.

The list is too long to mention here. They still continue to exist despite the toll, injuries and the averse public opinion. You're right springy, not all public opinions are right - but in this case, they can never be wrong. You don't need to educate the public about hazing they know well what they are. They don't need to even look the dictionary what that monster is - because the monster in hazing is in the faces of those who were bereaved or victims of it - That is the fact.

its true that its about time that we all change our ways. i'am a member of the beta sigma fraternity and like i said sa amin di namin kunukundina ang mga ganyang pangyayari. things should really stop, we have taken further actions para di kami mapatulad sa sigma rho, i just hope that all frats do the same and that all frats should learn. tama na yung may isang mendez, tama na yung may isang alex, tama na sila. fraternities were meant to serve and not to break and escape the law. like i said, paulo is somewhere out there and they have gone so far for sigma rho alumnis to tell NBI where he is. i believe na paninindigan na nila yung daan na pinili nila which is to be silent. its so sad nga lang that they were not responsible enough to face their flaws and jail their members.

[brownprose]

its true that its about time that we all change our ways. i'am a member of the beta sigma fraternity and like i said sa amin di namin kunukundina ang mga ganyang pangyayari. things should really stop, we have taken further actions para di kami mapatulad sa sigma rho, i just hope that all frats do the same and that all frats should learn. tama na yung may isang mendez, tama na yung may isang alex, tama na sila. fraternities were meant to serve and not to break and escape the law. like i said, paulo is somewhere out there and they have gone so far for sigma rho alumnis to tell NBI where he is. i believe na paninindigan na nila yung daan na pinili nila which is to be silent. its so sad nga lang that they were not responsible enough to face their flaws and jail their members.

WTG...May your tribe increase for making the first step. And may your frat be emulated by the rest of the fraternity/sorority community for taking time to rediscover yourselves and your traditions. We need not be sentimental or bitter to let go of a tradition which many societies have strongly condemned. Times have changed...I believe strongly that fraternities can make a very big difference if they just live up to the spirit and purpose for which they were built from the very beginning.

Our frats need to repurpose our Initiation Rites (especially the hazing part) to a more positive and humane approaches. That way we regain back the impression we lost for the many deaths and violence we had caused to many of our neophytes.

[Baroy]

its true that what public sees to hazing is a violent and arrogant rules of fraternities much different in the views of frat member. We can't blame the public if they think this since evidences shows because of hazing a certain person die. I guess what happen here, is that they violated the rules and by laws as to limitation of such hazing is apply.

ok ra man siguro unta ni ang mga fraternity as long as ang ila rules and by laws gisunod lang.
naa man gud uban na wla na jd ga sunod sa rules.