Victor Ortiz vs Andre Berto 04.16.11

[lestat1116]

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gamboa nalang. but dli pud ko sure anang gamboa. specially maka away og taas og experience.

[xirc]

nakasuway na jud ug napildi sila berto, juanma, mccloskey

[Bongoton]

Mao nay naka pait aning panahona kay ug mapildi, morag wa na dayun klaro ang future? We should not write these fighters off because how they bounce back from these loses will determine how good a fighter they are. Prime example, Manny Pacquiao.. even Orlando Salido who started his career with a record 8-6-1 as a 15 year old boy.
I'm confident JuanMa will bounce back just fine, and Berto will become a much better fighter after the Ortiz experience. Heck , he made no excuses and was gracious in defeat. Thats a good start
Undefeated means NOTHING. Ug motuo mo ni Floyd, nah! kamo lang.hehe
All good fighters lose, and came back to show that they're GREAT. Will JuanMa and Berto become great ones? That remains to be seen.

[doi]

2x post.........

[doi]

Mao nay naka pait aning panahona kay ug mapildi, morag wa na dayun klaro ang future? We should not write these fighters off because how they bounce back from these loses will determine how good a fighter they are. Prime example, Manny Pacquiao.. even Orlando Salido who started his career with a record 8-6-1 as a 15 year old boy.
I'm confident JuanMa will bounce back just fine, and Berto will become a much better fighter after the Ortiz experience. Heck , he made no excuses and was gracious in defeat. Thats a good start
Undefeated means NOTHING. Ug motuo mo ni Floyd, nah! kamo lang.hehe
All good fighters lose, and came back to show that they're GREAT. Will JuanMa and Berto become great ones? That remains to be seen.

who says anything about their future being cloudy? and nobody is writing them off but the fact is they both loss and were expected to win in expletive fashion, nothing against ortiz and salido but they were supposed to be sacrificial lambs... they're rise to the top is now put on hiatus with this loss but 3-5 wins straight they'll be back on track...
the main reason why these guys needed to win was they already have the significant fame and the right path to stardom...and the fact is, boxing is in need now of a star to carry the torch for the future when pacq retires w/c no1 is ready yet to fulfil the task...

undefeated means nothing? all great fighters needs to lose? LOL! so losing is essentially for greatness what a lousy theory. winning is everything and you say it's insignificant...

[Bongoton]

we're at this again Doi.. LOL

You said it yourself, "boxing's future" is yet again unsure. Boxing's future does not lie on these 2 men, especially Berto!

You seem to be pretty high on Berto ey? I agree that JuanMa is on his way to stardom, but Berto? Just because he is undefeated? LOL
Ortiz is no sacrificial lamb. You think Golden Boy agreed to put Ortiz in that position with no chance of winning against a fighter promoted by Lou Dibella? Maybe in JuanMa's case vs. Salido, yes.. but then again I don't think Salido is a sacrificial lamb given his attributes. If JuanMa can't beat a guy like Salido, he certainly isn't for superstardom, and that's why he needed to be tested against the grizzled veteran.

Tell me, who among the ALL TIME GREATS has undefeated record? Muhammad Ali? Sugar Ray Robinson? Duran? Leonard? Hearns? Hagler?

I never said "all great fighters need to lose". Read legibly. "All good fighters lose, and come back to show they're great ones". That's what I said.
Nobody NEEDS to lose, but losing will determine if a fighter is just good, or great. BIG DIFFERENCE. Losing does not automatically make you a loser. Heard of a guy named Erik Morales? He lost a fight last week, but won the hearts of many.
Losing is essential for greatness? that's your theory, not mine

[doi]

yes boxing's future is yet again unsure when these two were one of the flag bearers or front runners to superstardom... w/c other great young fighters you can name that has a popularity as these had going in their careers except maybe for donaire and amir khan right now... maybe ward,ortiz, kirkland, gamboa, rios and bradley but they still haven't broken out of the scene yet..

berto is a definite powerhouse because he fights to please and goes out guns blazing like pacq does not because of his former unblemished record. ortiz was a huge underdog(+390) in the fight and berto(-450) was the favorite for a reason he was the champ that run thru his oppositions. tell me, did you ever thought for a second that berto will lose in this fight? i didn't and most people did.... berto is a very promising fighter hate it or love it...

ahh joe calzaghe? rocky marciano? ever heard of those guys? heck even the film rocky balboa was inspired by him...

undefeated record is what every fighter desires to achieve at the end of their careers and yet only a few done it at a high level... i won't undermine an unblemished record.

i repeat again winning is everything! whether you gave out a fantastic fight or showed tremendous courage in a fight but go on to lose, you maybe be praise for your valiant effort but the truth is people/fans are going to remember the winner and everybody loves winners not losers... a lose translates a bad vibe..

example: pbf isn't an exciting fighter but is a cash cow. why? cause he kept his record clean against top fighters and came out spotless...

morales won that fight...

[monroy]

damn i missed this fight.. can't find it on piratebay. asa ni ma d/l?

[Bongoton]

The future of boxing is definitely bleak if all boxing fans mentality is like yours; that losing is that bad
Berto is definitely NOT a flag bearer that you make him out to be. Please check how many seats has put in his recent fights. Popular? HARDLY. Where did you even get the notion that he is popular? Maybe he is known to hardcore boxing fans, but not the casual fans.
JuanMa on the other hand has a good number of casual fans and puts butts in seats everytime he fights. He's not there yet, but he is definitely more popular than Berto.
Berto was a huge favorite largely because of Ortiz, who was tagged as a QUITTER and counted out by most boxing fans. Not because Berto is so good. Yeah he is a titleholder, but he is LARGELY untested.. and yeah he ran thru a tring of no-hopers, but struggled mightily against Luis Collazo. By the way, have you seen that fight? If you did, then I doubt you would tout Berto as a "very" promising fighter.

You consider Joe Calzaghe and Rocky Marciano "great" fighters? LOL.. No question, they're Hall of Famers, but ALL TIME GREAT FIGHTERS? Come on man.. You can NEVER put those 2 guys in the same sentence as ALI, ROBINSON, ARMSTRONG, LEONARD, and some others. It would be an INSULT.
And hey, doesn't Rocky Balboa have a bunch of loses in his record? hehehe

Winning is NOT everything, I beg to disagree with you to a great extent. And that kind of mentality by most fans is what's killing boxing nowadays.
Marquez lost to Pacquiao by split decision. Is anybody saying he is a loser? Well, maybe yes because he acted like an as5 about the loss. But isn't he still considered one of the best fighters alive and in the top 5 pound for pound? A fighter will be REMEMBERED not because of his record, but by WHO and HOW he fought. Records DO NOT MAKE GREAT FIGHTERS. Nobody will chastise you for DARING to fight the best and lose, Prime examples are Leonard, Hagler, Hearns and Duran. Do you even know their records? I don't, but I know them, and boxing fans around the world know very well these are GREAT fighters even if they lost to one another at one point.

An undefeated record only means you have not fought the best. I'd give Floyd his props if he fights Pacquiao and lose. I'd chastise him if he retires not fighting the man who many thinks can beat him. If he wins (and thats a big IF), then I may consider him a "great" fighter. Now? Not yet. He's not paid enough dues in my own opinion. and if he fights and beats Sergio Martinez also, then bow na jud ko niya. 2 ra ka taw iya pildihon, mo bow na ko.
And Floyd is only a cash cow because a LOT of people pay to see him lose, not because of his record. And excuse me, he DID NOT fight top fighters. He feasted on a bunch of no-hopers since 2003 and avoided a fighter who many thought will give him a tough time back in the day, Antonio Margarito. He fought those who he can clearly beat..maybe with the exception of Mosley, who was a legit welterweight champ when he fought him. Who did he fight that's not at least a 3-1 underdog, huh? Now everybody wants him to fight Pacquiao, and what does he do?

And even if you think Morales won that fight, the official record says he lost. Now tell me, did the loss in any way tainted Morales image as a great fighter? My answer is a big NO. Morales won big time (I do not mean a wide margin IF I scored the fight because I didn't) in my eyes no matter what the official scorecard said, and that my friend is how a fighter is remembered.

[doi]

dude, are you blind or just in denial that boxing is not what it was 20-30 years ago. boxing is not the number one combat sport any more, MMA is taking over the scene in this generation. it's a dying sport but it doesn't mean it's going to die... it's sad boxing is nowhere near what it was before...

Berto has significant fame here in the USA not so in other countries but America is where all boxers want to go and it's the proving ground for boxers... i've seen the Collazo fight it was a very entertaining bout and he came out winning after all adversities. a quitter? i highly doubt that maybe ikaw ra...

Calzaghe and Marciano ain't great fighters? LOL! maybe you're dreaming....
Calzaghe was the former WBO(held for 10years), WBA, WBC, IBF, The Ring magazine & British super middleweight champion and Ring magazine Light-heavyweight Champion and retired as one of the top p4p fighters in the world...

Calzaghe is the longest-reigning world champion in recent years, having held the WBO super middleweight title for over ten years until he relinquished the title to concentrate on fighting at light-heavyweight. As his super-middleweight and light-heavyweight reigns overlapped, he retired with the longest continual time as world champion of any active fighter

Rocky Marciano an insult to those fighters? dude do you even know who he is?

In 1971, Ring magazine founder Nat Fleischer named Marciano as the tenth greatest heavyweight champion ever.[13] In 1998, Ring magazine named Marciano as the sixth greatest heavyweight champion ever. In 2002, Ring Magazine numbered Marciano at #12 on the list of the 80 Best Fighters of the Last 80 Years. In 2003, Ring Magazine rated Marciano #14 on the list of 100 greatest punchers of all time. In 2005, Marciano was named the fifth greatest heavyweight of all time by the International Boxing Research Organization.[14] A 1977 ranking by Ring magazine listed Marciano as the greatest Italian-American fighter. In 2007, on ESPN.com's list of the 50 Greatest Boxers of All Time, Marciano was ranked #14. A 1968 radio computer simulation by Murry Woroner concluded that Marciano was the greatest heavyweight champion

puhhllesss...

winning is everything and that's a fact! why would you compete if you don't have the mind set to win?
why is there a need to fight if you don't have the mentality to win? it's a METAPHOR!!!!!! duh!

me? don't know who the four horsemen in boxing? lol! you're more vague as thought you were...

An undefeated record only means you have not fought the best.

ahh this one made me laugh... so if you fight the best you're going to lose right? is that you're theory LMAO!

ranting about mayweather will go us nowhere like we did last time... Sergio Martinez is a beast! no one can stop that man, even mayweather or pacquiao or other guys in his division will be destroyed...

i'm huge huge morales fan even before the pacquiao bouts and i think he was robbed...