The ZTE-NBN Deal: What now?

[ichor_82283]

@ ichor_82283

What I understand from your post is that.....If there is doubt in the integrity of all 3 (abalos, jdvIII and neri) then there's no way to deduce anything from their testimonies as anything that comes out of their mouth is worthless.

However, Integrity aside.... if you analyze their statements logically... one contradicts the other.

It's like... person A said this happened... person B said this did not happen. Given these 2 conflicting statements... they cannot both be right... and they cannot both be wrong as well... its either... the event happened or not... there's no other scenario. (Did Abalos offer the 200 bribe.... it can only be yes or no... did Abalos offer 10m Bribe... again.. yes or no... did the FG say "back off"to JDV III .... yes or no... discrediting all of them does not change the notion that one is stating a fact... while the other is not. So there is truth in their testimonies whether you think they're credible or not.

The question here is to determine whos testimony is correct.

On Executive Privilege...

Neri himself admitted that he was instructed by Executive Secretary Eduardo Ermita to invoke the privilege under Ms Arroyo’s Executive Order No. 464.

Later in Malacanang Ermita denied ordering Neri to invoke EO 464...

Again we see a discrepancy.... they cannot both be right... they cannot both be wrong.

As far as Neri's reason for invoking EO464... he was just doing what he was told.


The testimonies here clearly show that someone is telling the truth while the other is lying....

I'm confident there will be hard evidence to determine who the guilty party is. This is where Neri and Abalos will come in.

I tried to get your point. I still stand that all they are saying are worthless unless a firm, tangible, and solid evidence comes out. Let's go back to DAY 1 of the ZTE deal scandal as others have branded it, what did JDV III say? and I quote, " Ang masasabi ko lang ay ang aking parte, alam kong mahirap i-prove dahil WALA AKONG EBIDENSYA!" (SIC)

From Day 1 JDV III is talking crap. He is so engrossed and engulfed by the write-ups of the PDI journalist and the "pagniningas ng cogon" of Sen. Lacson. From that day and onwards all JDV III has and have are prejudices towards the palace, the people working on it, the people involved in the deal, and the facade info he has gotten. He has no direct knowledge of the deal itself, all he knows are info passed on to him by the personalities who are visible on the inception of the contract. Mind you, he is not a palace insider to know so much. To believe in him is like seeing the not the tip of an iceberg but a figment of an iceberg! If not for Sen. Lacson's tactic he will not show up and I am certain of it. JDV III will be in a corner mending his bruised ego and attending his neglected business. Plain and simple. As to Neri, he will be functioning all that is in his dossier of work and so with Abalos. I can't imagine how people who are related with FG and GMA as corrupt or into wrongdoings. Take for example Razon, he's alleged to be close to FG and family, does that make him corrupt or transacting to the govt at excessive self-profit?

How can their be truth if they are not credible? Please think.

With your Person A and B logic and with the categoric questions, even if you answer yes and no without evidence its futile. So what when you say yes when there's no evidence to support your claim? The more when you claim, for the burden of proof lies in you. I am looking at the merits of the burden of proof. Testimonies support the burden of proof not the other way around.

@ EO 464

I can't be certain if indeed Ermita instructed Neri to avail or invoke EO 464, but their might have been a communication that still EO 464 could still invoked since the SC hasn't overruled it yet. iT is still in effect.

Try to analyze, it was the media who insinuates that Neri could still invoke EO 464 and Ermita along with Bunye affirmed that Neri could invoke EO 464. Perhaps Neri has understood it as an instruction for him to avail of this legal remedy. NOt in the way that it was put on his mouth. Thus, I can't be certain that it was indeed readily equipped for him for the Senate Blue Ribbon Committee hearing.

I agree on your latter comments.

Time will come when an evidence will hammer down the guilty party, or the innocent party. Up till now NO ONE is said to be lying and saying the truth, thus the Senate probe and hearing.

I dislike how opposition Senators pre-empt that there really is an irregularity. They should inhibit themselves to let the truth come-out. It's like probing something that is certain, which I say isn't unless proven.

[ichor_82283]

eratum:

:: To believe in him is like seeing NOT THE tip of an iceberg...

:: that EO 464 could be still be invoked

[mango]

@mango

now they are scrapping the contract? why not before when the bribe attempt was made? oh... i can't really expect something right from this administration.

You're right on the money ! Sinabi mo pa. I've long given up on this administration. Too much politics. Everybody's got their own agenda.
Am just hoping the next one will do better !

[vipvip68]

I can't imagine how people who are related with FG and GMA as corrupt or into wrongdoings.

I think you need to broaden your imagination... You claim that it's impossible to know for sure unless you have hard evidence... yet you are so sure that they are not involved? What kind of logic is that? In your own words...Where's your hard evidence? or are the FG and GMA's credibility good enough for you You sound like a die hard GMA supporter....

How can their(there) be truth if they are not credible? Please think.

As I said... analyze the statements logically the issue of credibility has nothing to do with it.....

I couldn't care less if you don't find all 3 of them credible..... What I know for sure is one side is telling the truth.

You're using credibility to discredit ALL statements....but it is impossible because there are only two scenarios.... either it happened or it didnt....

credibility does not change that.... Please think also...

With your Person A and B logic and with the categoric questions, even if you answer yes and no without evidence its futile. So what when you say yes when there's no evidence to support your claim? The more when you claim, for the burden of proof lies in you. I am looking at the merits of the burden of proof. Testimonies support the burden of proof not the other way around.

That's why I said that I'm confident that there will be hard evidence to determine who the guilty party is. AND... that's the reason why I said Neri and Abalos will play important roles.

I can't be certain if indeed Ermita instructed Neri to avail or invoke EO 464, but their(there) might have been a communication that EO 464 could still invoked since the SC hasn't overruled it yet. iT is still in effect. Try to analyze, it was the media who insinuated that Neri could still invoke EO 464 and Ermita along with Bunye affirmed that Neri could invoke EO 464. Perhaps Neri has understood it as an instruction for him to avail of this legal remedy. NOt in the way that it was put on his mouth. Thus, I can't be certain that it was indeed readily equipped for him for the Senate Blue Ribbon Committee hearing.

Neri clearly stated that Ermita instructed him to invoke EO464. Nobody placed it in his mouth or made him say it. Ermita claimed otherwise.
You cannot have it both ways.... either Neri is lying or Ermita is lying.

I agree on your latter comments.

Time will come when an evidence will hammer down the guilty party, or the innocent party. Up till now NO ONE is said to be lying and saying the truth, thus the Senate probe and hearing.

Due to lack of hard evidence.... we cannot say for certain who the innocent or guilty party is.... but the truth exists due to conflicting statements with the truth on one side... and lies on the other... it IS there... you just have to find out who the guilty party is.

I dislike how opposition Senators pre-empt that there really is an irregularity. They should inhibit themselves to let the truth come-out. It's like probing something that is certain, which I say isn't unless proven.

I agree. Senators like Jinggoy Estrada and others whose form of questioning clearly show that they have vested interests ... and are not out there to seek the truth.

However, I also dislike the actions of admin Senators Joker Arroyo, Enrile and Santiago who are clearly using diversionary tactics and are attempting to hide the truth and/or delay the proceedings (notably Joker Arroyo's act to stop the closed door session to keep Neri from talking, Enrile's ramblings and Miriam's .... errr never mind nalang kay Miriam... hahah)

These senators actions seem to show that they have more allegiance to their president than they do to the truth.

If they have nothing to hide, why are they trying to stop Neri from disclosing the details of his conversation with GMA... did the president do anything wrong? Why hide behind EO464? What did GMA do when she heard about the bribe?

[baron]

@mango

now they are scrapping the contract? why not before when the bribe attempt was made? oh... i can't really expect something right from this administration.

It's really a damn if you do and damn if you don't situation for you, is it not? Whatever this administration does will always not be good for you.

I think the best decision for this issue is to scrap the project for now and bring the matter in the proper courts for those allegations of bribery. You cannot always go to media to sensationalize the controversy and leave it hanging. The reason why we have the courts of justice is to settle issues once and for all. Unfortunately, those issues thrown in this administration, however far out they may be, are not being brought to court because the evidence is not sufficient to prove the matters alleged.

[FK]

It's really a damn if you do and damn if you don't situation for you, is it not? Whatever this administration does will always not be good for you.

it's just pretty damn on them... if this controversy was not unmasked? and no investigation was done? What happen to our money? DAMN! Do you want me to praise the administration for scrapping this project? Did they scrap it because it was anomalous? Or did they scrap it because of public pressure? DAMN again.

I think the best decision for this issue is to scrap the project for now and bring the matter in the proper courts for those allegations of bribery. You cannot always go to media to sensationalize the controversy and leave it hanging. The reason why we have the courts of justice is to settle issues once and for all. Unfortunately, those issues thrown in this administration, however far out they may be, are not being brought to court because the evidence is not sufficient to prove the matters alleged.

It's the best decision for survival... if they really thought their is nothing wrong with it... they must continue it. So the bribery attempt towards NERI is not sufficient and just mere allegation? Look at who pointing Abalos? So if NERI is telling a lie to your president? Why is he still there? Ahhh... i get it know, the policy of this administration is JUST LIE!

[ichor_82283]

Now I stand corrected. It is now in the News that Prexy GMA indeed told Neri to invoke EO 464, that is when needed to protect the privacy and confidentiality during her meetings with her cabinet members to which I says is partly true. EO 464's wide latitude of domain would clearly set the parameters and the limitations the cabinet members would divulge on all meetings, may it be close door or not. I think it is a good defense of Her excellency to avail of what is vested (powers of the chief executive) on her. As long as the Supreme Court says that it can still be invoked, then I think it would proper for the President to hold her ground through the EO 464's wide latitude of domain.

@ the issue of people surrounding the President and FG:
I never said that I am certain that they aren't involved. I still believe that it is a possibility and a probability.

@the issue of credibility

why would the senators probe the credibility of the witnesses at hand when it is not an issue?
we can only say that one side is in the truth when hard evidence surface that are supported by their testimonies.you should care on this matter. We are not into who tells flawlessly or who's testimonies are less fool-proof. We are after the burden of proof.
When can we say that a scenario indeed happened? 1. evidences 2. witnesses .....it is not just or merely believing who's testimony denies the other, or is flawless, or is not in conflict with the other.

The irregularities of their testimonies may even be of the same side but yet of different angle or perspective.

@ the issue of lack of evidence
how do we find out who the guilty party is? by probing that indeed there is an irregularity on the ZTE deal. Hear the charges/allegations but put your merit on the burden of proof.

@ the senators actuations

you are right how admin senators acted to at least delay and think of something else to retrack or mend the what we call "damage". they are just acting on what they deemed proper for admin senators to do.

@ the merit of EO 464

this legal remedy or availment does not hide anything, this executive order only puts everything (all issues the president and her cabinet members talk about) on its proper place. when there's no EO 464 then everything could be be told by her cabinet members. where then is the privacy and confidentiality? privacy and confidentiality should not be confused with transparency.

finale:



I am not a die-hard GMA supporter noh , I just don't like how the ZTE deal is brought when we are all assailing peacefully. Our peso is at its best. Remember the rate of the peso when Erap was being proclaimed as president? it was above 47. when he was deposed? the rate is at 54-55. what about during the mutiny? at 51. when GMA won the election? at 49-50. when KRIS AQUINO took the spotlight, the rate when there was a mutiny was brought at a one peso value.

Nonetheless, never would I say that even if there's a valid reason to bring charges against the president or to any public officials we will not do something about it even if we are in our comfort zone. All irregularities against the law should be seriously dealt with.

[ichor_82283]

It's really a damn if you do and damn if you don't situation for you, is it not? Whatever this administration does will always not be good for you.

I think the best decision for this issue is to scrap the project for now and bring the matter in the proper courts for those allegations of bribery. You cannot always go to media to sensationalize the controversy and leave it hanging. The reason why we have the courts of justice is to settle issues once and for all. Unfortunately, those issues thrown in this administration, however far out they may be, are not being brought to court because the evidence is not sufficient to prove the matters alleged.

I agree on the matter of the sufficiency of evidences to bring to jail the culprit.

Yet, in my opinion, these politicians charging against each other can be playfully related to a scenario where all cookie monsters dipped their hands in the cookie jar and one squeals that the other indeed dipped his hand on the cookie jar. (re-phrase na lang ninyo.).

[elvishtattoo]

pwede ibalik na si JDV III sa Bohol?
gipangita na sya sa mga caretakers didto!
basin maka paak na ug tawo tarsiera na!

[FK]

I just don't like how the ZTE deal is brought when we are all assailing peacefully. Our peso is at its best.

and when do you want it investigated? when the money has been spent? Where we can no longer claim the money? You want the likes of the cebu street lamps? walis ting2x? bataan nuclear plant? fertilizer scam? hahay...