The Roman Catholic Church~ Questions

[necrotic freak]

---

OT: let anyone come to his own ENLIGHTENMENT. no religions necessary. just your Self. and God. and then all these debates would be irrelevant.

just your self and God? ang relation ninyo sa Ginoo thats already a religion..

[oTnur]

Where is it in the Bible? Anti-Catholics always ask this to prove that Catholic practices are baseless or unbiblical. In order to answer them, we should know the History about the origin of the Bible. Hundreds of Protestant Pastors have already come back to the Catholic Church because they have studied not only in the Bible, but also the great History of the Bible.

The History of our Church the Catholic Church is a blood-stained. In fact, the Strong witnessing of the martyrs strengthened the Church more and more."Blood of the Martyrs bacame the seed of Christianity. But there where other churches which grew
WITHOUT FIERCE PERSECUTION.

The Sad Story of the BIBLE!

Until 1400 AD, Catholic Monks preserved the original purity of the BIBLE and made copies by hand. Everyday in the Holy Masses, the the congregation attended both 'Breaking of the Word' and 'Breaking of the Bread'. The Bible was not available to common people as there was no printing at that time as it is TODAY.

In 1453 AD, printing was invented. Copies of the Bible were made available. In 1517 AD, Martin Luther attacked the Church, But first he vandalized Bible itself. To defend his dogmas, he threw out seven Old Testament books from the early cannons of the Bible (Wisdom, Sirach, Judith, Baruch, Tobit, 1st Maccabees and 2nd Maccabees). He planned to destroy even The New Testament book, 'Letter of James', which spoke against his dictrine ' Sola Fide" (Man is save not by work but faith alone). But James 2:26 says: "Faith without work is DEAD". When opposition mounted, he was satisfied, accusing this Epistle as "Epistle of the straw". So the Bible that is used by Protestants, is partial, incomplete, and unauthentic.

His followers started to fight with each other on the interpretation of the Bible by creating contrary theologies and new dogmas. Thousand of Churches were formed. All believed that the Bible alone is the basis of Faith; a dogma never taught by Jesus, never written in the Bible, nor supported by the Bible. Each church started to change interpretations and even words in the Bible according to thier desire. This resulted in More than 200,000 churches with contrary views, all based in the Bible. All claim the guidance of the same Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit can never do this dirty confusion and total anarchy as it is the Spirit of Truth.

There are more than 700 churches here in the Philippines with the 'Bible alone theory'. Thus, history proved, beyond any doubt, that the 'Bible alone' theory is not from God.

In fact, the Bible became an instrument in the hands of Satan to create Chaos and anarchy in Christendom when it was taken away from its real basis--- the Church founded by Jesus upon Peter. So Jesus warned, (Jn 15:6) "Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither".

All founders of anti-Catholic sects keep this similar history. None of them led a life of outstanding holiness, but were involved in critisism, protests, hatred, immorality and became notorious for their evil diongs and try their very best to snatch ignorant sheeps from the Catholic Church, as much as possible.

The anti-Catholics churches were broken into pieces. They all kept but one dream: "Destroy the Catholism". But up to now, The Mother Church (Catholic) continues to be victorious as ever. She is the greatist moral power in the world. When the Pope speaks, all nation listen-whether they be Muslims, Hindus, Protestants, Communist or Securists. " THE GATES OF HELL WILL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT" (Matt 16:1.

The apostles of apostasy will always appear They will carry the Bible. Years before, Satan tempted Jesus by QUOTING the scripture passages three times, now he uses the same trick to destroy the mystical body of our Lord Jesus Christ! "Qoute the Bible, destroy the Catholic faith" is the new policy! So Jesus warned His apostles "Beware that no one leads you astray. Many will fall away" (Matt. 24:4, 10)

In early centuries of the Church, there appeared more than 50 gospels, which include 4 gospels that we see in New Testament and other gospels such as gospels of James , Thomas, the Hebrews,and others. There were 22 books of Acts, Acts of the Apostles, Acts of Paul, and Acts of Thecla. among others. There were numerous Epistles that we see in New Testament such as Paul's letter to the Lacodiceans, the Epistle of Barnabas. This Created total confusion among early Christians because some of the books and letters were "spurious" and others genuine. Some of them contained even superstitions and funny stories of the meracles of Our Lord Jesus and Apostles. Many false prophets appeared with different theologies contrary to the apostolic teaching. For Arius, Jesus was not God. For Apollinarius, Jesus was not Man, Macedonius preached that the Holy Spirit is not God. For Maricionites, all the gospels are false. All of them Started to qoute the scriptures available at that time.
To defend the True Church and its doctrines from apostasies, The Catholic Church decided to select some books that seemed genuine and inpired: Its knwon as the canon of Bible (Greek 'Kanon' means something serving to determine, rule). Thus, the Bible came from the Church! The Church is not coming from the Bible.

THE CHURCH MADE THE BIBLE

It was Melito, Bishop of Sardis (170 AD) who first tried to have an Old Testament Canon but many of the inspired books are not seen in his list.
The council of Laodicea (360 AD), with the permission of the Pope in Rome, produced the first canon of the Bible. But it is only in the year of Pope Dmasus (367 AD) that is great effort was done to from the Bible. The Holy Pope compiled the books which he consideredgenuine and ordered St. Jerome to translate them into Latin, which was the official language of the Church. St. Jerome went to Jerusalem and lived for 30 years in a cave to do the job. At 397 AD, he finished his works and presented to the Pope. this is known as "Latin Vugate". Pope Siricius called it the Bible which means the 'Collection of Books' The term New Testament was given by Tertullian in AD 200. The division by chapters and verses in the Bible is created by an Archbishop, Cardinal Hugo de Santo Caro in A.D. 1244-1248.

[Hellblazer]

just your self and God? ang relation ninyo sa Ginoo thats already a religion..

i don't want to call it a religion kay di man siya ma-branded as one of the organized religions. it's a higher sense of spirituality. that's all.

[shimiyu]

OT:

naa nyay mod mo-descend diri.

[Hellblazer]

OT: yes, i hope so too.

[mordecai_327]

Where is it in the Bible? Anti-Catholics always ask this to prove that Catholic practices are baseless or unbiblical.

...this is a general question that requires specifics in order to determine what it refers to.

Why so defensive?

...upon using the description "Anti-Catholic": Do you think it is appropriate? You can convey your point by not making any labels bro ... it only gives an impression of hostility. Relaaaaaxxx! Hehehe...

In order to answer them, we should know the History about the origin of the Bible.

...two camps can be the source of History. Don't just read those whom Historians (with Roman Catholic leanings) have written to get the fuller detail of the story. Read beyond your circles: Is that a fair statement?

Hundreds of Protestant Pastors have already come back to the Catholic Church because they have studied not only in the Bible, but also the great History of the Bible.

...this doesn't prove or give weight on what you want to point. Though an OT, do you even have statistics on this?

The History of our Church the Catholic Church is a blood-stained. In fact, the Strong witnessing of the martyrs strengthened the Church more and more."Blood of the Martyrs bacame the seed of Christianity. But there where other churches which grew
WITHOUT FIERCE PERSECUTION.

...it only proves that the very Word of God (enlivened with the testimony of those who took their stand with their life's testimony) caused churches to sprung up and grow, for He alone causes it to grow (Colossians 2:19), NOT the church in herself, INHERENTLY.

The Sad Story of the BIBLE!

...why did you call it "SAD?"

Until 1400 AD, Catholic Monks preserved the original purity of the BIBLE and made copies by hand. Everyday in the Holy Masses, the the congregation attended both 'Breaking of the Word' and 'Breaking of the Bread'.

...the Old Testament has been the Jewish Scriptures. As for the New Testament, even before the date you have mentioned, the practice of the early church was to copy the writings of the NT writers (the Second Book of Luke, the letters of Paul, James, and other New Testament writings) then pass it on to the churches scattered around the vast Roman Empire. This was due to the pre-printing days. Of the earliest portion of the New Testament that is extant/available for us today is the fragment of the Gospel of John, dated back between AD 100 to AD 150 (if you have enough money, you can view it at the John Rylands Library in Manchester, England). That is waaaay close to the time the last Apostle had lived, i.e., The Apostle John himself, who died in the AD 90s (Dr. Bruce Mitzger, The Canon of the New Testament).

To say that Catholic Monks preserved the purity of the Bible is presumptuous. With the vastness of manuscripts (which are mostly in Greek and not solely in LATIN by the way <--- follow the implication) totalling more than 5,000, is no exclusivity. Mentioning even "the purity of the Bible" invites another discussion of another topic.

The Bible was not available to common people as there was no printing at that time as it is TODAY.

...quite true. The thinking that day (even to some today) was that the common man will not be able to comprehend what the Bible says, let alone the priests.

In 1517 AD, Martin Luther attacked the Church, But first he vandalized Bible itself.

Wow, quite an accusation. Either you or the article of your source should stay objective. Martin cried out REFORMATION, not SEPARATION. Because he was excommunicated by the Roman Catholic church enacted through a Papal Bull, he was left with no choice but to continue congregating. After all, he considered himself as a servant of God.

To defend his dogmas, he threw out seven Old Testament books from the early cannons of the Bible (Wisdom, Sirach, Judith, Baruch, Tobit, 1st Maccabees and 2nd Maccabees).

Even the Jews did not consider Wisdom, Sirach, Judith, Baruch, Tobit, 1st Maccabees and 2nd Maccabees as part of the Old Testament Canon. Why can't Luther will? These books can be a good historical source of what happened during the period of the Old Testament and the New Testament which is called "Inter-Testamental Period", but can never be granted as at par with the status of the Scriptures. Even if these books are in the Latin Vulgate (except for II Esdras), the church Father Jerome warned his readers not to put any weight upon those books.

He planned to destroy even The New Testament book, 'Letter of James', which spoke against his dictrine ' Sola Fide" (Man is save not by work but faith alone). But James 2:26 says: "Faith without work is DEAD". When opposition mounted, he was satisfied, accusing this Epistle as "Epistle of the straw".

Ephesians 2:8-9 exemplifies this SOLA FIDE, along with numerous Scriptural basis. The book of James speaks about practical Christianity, i.e., what Christians (those who are already SAVED) should behave. It does not tell about "how to be saved" but "how to behave" as a Christian. Good works come as a result of salvation, not the other way around, to vindicate a person's claim of having "faith". After all, "actions speak louder than words."

So the Bible that is used by Protestants, is partial, incomplete, and unauthentic.

...a mere opinion. Do you have any valid argument on this?

His followers started to fight with each other on the interpretation of the Bible by creating contrary theologies and new dogmas. Thousand of Churches were formed. All believed that the Bible alone is the basis of Faith; a dogma never taught by Jesus, never written in the Bible, nor supported by the Bible. Each church started to change interpretations and even words in the Bible according to thier desire. This resulted in More than 200,000 churches with contrary views, all based in the Bible. All claim the guidance of the same Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit can never do this dirty confusion and total anarchy as it is the Spirit of Truth.

...have you read Calvin, Zwingly, and other contemporaries of Luther? If not, then this is a mere speculation.

There are more than 700 churches here in the Philippines with the 'Bible alone theory'. Thus, history proved, beyond any doubt, that the 'Bible alone' theory is not from God.

Creeds or any Confessions (as what Christian circles call it) like the Sola Scriptura (Bible Alone) is not a theory but a Doctrinal Position. In Systematic Theology a doctrine can only be considered Biblical if it adheres to Biblical Theology. If you consider the Bible as the very Word of God then a position like this can be considered biblical. To say that it is not from God is to only show that you don't understand the process of how a doctrine or position is derived.

In fact, the Bible became an instrument in the hands of Satan to create Chaos and anarchy in Christendom when it was taken away from its real basis--- the Church founded by Jesus upon Peter. So Jesus warned, (Jn 15:6) "Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither".

All founders of anti-Catholic sects keep this similar history. None of them led a life of outstanding holiness, but were involved in critisism, protests, hatred, immorality and became notorious for their evil diongs and try their very best to snatch ignorant sheeps from the Catholic Church, as much as possible.

LOL. Sir I don't mean to accuse and appear self-righteous but one cannot ignore the sexual cases involving priests. Holiness you say?

The anti-Catholics churches were broken into pieces. They all kept but one dream: "Destroy the Catholism".

...Are you sure this is their aim? Or even their dream?

But up to now, The Mother Church (Catholic) continues to be victorious as ever. She is the greatist moral power in the world. When the Pope speaks, all nation listen-whether they be Muslims, Hindus, Protestants, Communist or Securists. " THE GATES OF HELL WILL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT" (Matt 16:1.

...everybody can listen to anybody but not necessarily follow, you know. Welcome to the real world!

The apostles of apostasy will always appear They will carry the Bible. Years before, Satan tempted Jesus by QUOTING the scripture passages three times, now he uses the same trick to destroy the mystical body of our Lord Jesus Christ! "Qoute the Bible, destroy the Catholic faith" is the new policy! So Jesus warned His apostles "Beware that no one leads you astray. Many will fall away" (Matt. 24:4, 10)

...if you say mystical it can be synonymous to occultic. Do you consider your church to be an occult? For all we know the visible church or body of Christ are the people who profess themselves as Christians -- visible people. Mystical you say?

In early centuries of the Church, there appeared more than 50 gospels, which include 4 gospels that we see in New Testament and other gospels such as gospels of James , Thomas, the Hebrews,and others. There were 22 books of Acts, Acts of the Apostles, Acts of Paul, and Acts of Thecla. among others. There were numerous Epistles that we see in New Testament such as Paul's letter to the Lacodiceans, the Epistle of Barnabas. This Created total confusion among early Christians because some of the books and letters were "spurious" and others genuine. Some of them contained even superstitions and funny stories of the meracles of Our Lord Jesus and Apostles. Many false prophets appeared with different theologies contrary to the apostolic teaching. For Arius, Jesus was not God. For Apollinarius, Jesus was not Man, Macedonius preached that the Holy Spirit is not God. For Maricionites, all the gospels are false. All of them Started to qoute the scriptures available at that time.
To defend the True Church and its doctrines from apostasies, The Catholic Church decided to select some books that seemed genuine and inpired: Its knwon as the canon of Bible (Greek 'Kanon' means something serving to determine, rule). Thus, the Bible came from the Church! The Church is not coming from the Bible.

THE CHURCH MADE THE BIBLE

It was Melito, Bishop of Sardis (170 AD) who first tried to have an Old Testament Canon but many of the inspired books are not seen in his list.
The council of Laodicea (360 AD), with the permission of the Pope in Rome, produced the first canon of the Bible. But it is only in the year of Pope Dmasus (367 AD) that is great effort was done to from the Bible. The Holy Pope compiled the books which he consideredgenuine and ordered St. Jerome to translate them into Latin, which was the official language of the Church. St. Jerome went to Jerusalem and lived for 30 years in a cave to do the job. At 397 AD, he finished his works and presented to the Pope. this is known as "Latin Vugate". Pope Siricius called it the Bible which means the 'Collection of Books' The term New Testament was given by Tertullian in AD 200. The division by chapters and verses in the Bible is created by an Archbishop, Cardinal Hugo de Santo Caro in A.D. 1244-1248.

Did the Roman Catholic Church give us the Bible? No, it did not.

First of all, the Roman Catholic Church was not really in effect as an organization in the first couple hundred years of the Christian church. The Christian church was under persecution and official church gatherings were risky business in the Roman Empire. Catholicism as an organization with a central figure located in Rome did not occur for quite some time, in spite of its claim that they can trace the papacy back to Peter.

Second, the Christian church recognized what was Scripture. It did not establish it. This is a very important point. The Christian Church recognizes what God has inspired and pronounces that recognition. In other words, they discover what is already authentic. Jesus said, "my sheep hear my voice and they follow me..." (John 10:27). The church hears the voice of Christ; that is, it recognizes what is inspired and it follows the word. It does not add to it as the Roman Catholic Church has done. Therefore, the Catholic Church is not following the voice of Christ.

Third, the Roman Catholic Church did not give us the Old Testament, which is the Scripture that Christ and the apostles appealed to. If the Roman Catholic Church wants to state that it gave us the Bible, how can they claim to have given us the Old Testament, which is part of the Bible? It didn't, so it cannot make that claim. The fact is that the followers of God, the true followers of God, recognize what is and is not inspired. The Jews knew what was inspired of God and they recognized what God had inspired. That is what those who are of God do.

Fourth, when the apostles wrote the New Testament documents, they were inspired by the power of the Holy Spirit. There wasn't any real issue of whether or not they were authentic. Their writings did not need to be deemed worthy of inclusion in the Canon of Scripture by a later group of men in the so-called Roman Catholic Church.

To make such a claim is, in effect, to usurp the natural power and authority of God himself.

Fifth, the Scripture says, "But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God" (2 Pet. 1:20-21). The Bible tells us that the Scriptures are inspired by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the very nature of the inspired documents is that they carry power and authenticity in themselves. They are not given the power or the authenticity of ecclesiastical declaration.

[ARAH]

is God here?

[oTnur]

well, Brother, i respect your side and my answers are there already. Its our Faith.

Peace and may God Bless us all!

[aztina888]

zeitgeistmovie.com

open your eyes..

[Soul Doctor]

is God here?

God is not here.
If He is, He would not let bad things happen to good people.

But God is not here simply because we are not that significant to Him.
He can not waste His time watching us all the time.

If you have an aquarium,
you can not watch your fish all the time, right?
What if you have a million aquaria?
Would you watch each aquarium at a time?

There are Millions of galaxies in the universe,
God would not watch each galaxies all the time.