MERGED: Vigilantism and related issues

[edgeknife]

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Well, the point is NOT that we should justify crime. We should NOT do so. The point is that vigilantism is ALSO A CRIME. And the crime of PREMEDITATED MURDER is far worse than petty thievery.

Yes it's a crime. But wa ka naluoy sa mga victims of crimes?? I really don't know you have many friends out there. Murag ako maluoy para nimo. You're trying to say nga naa ka sa mga criminals nga side?? Or are you insulting the crime victims?? tsk tsk

[mannyamador]

Yes it's a crime. But wa ka naluoy sa mga victims of crimes?? I really don't know you have many friends out there. Murag ako maluoy para nimo. You're trying to say nga naa ka sa mga criminals nga side?? Or are you insulting the crime victims?? tsk tsk

I have lots of friends. And I have also been a victim of petty crime many times. And my grandfather was murdered. But that's beside the point. ALL crimes should be stopped. We should not justify the greater crime (vigilantes murdering suspects and other innocent persons) as a solution to lesser crimes.

[jugs_06]

.... as i read comments from antagonists of vigilantism, it seems like you treat the issue as if vigilantism is out of hand. As if Cebu City is now a warzone. Are the killings that rampant ?? It's only one or two dead per month, at least, and those who died are criminals.
... Doing a little evil for the greater good is hopeless?? HERE Give me a break jugs, stay in touch with reality, this is not the pocket books where everything is perfect and great leaders have been doing that kind of stuff since ancient times. Stop using the word naive to the anti-V's, it's you who's naive.

you're contradicting yourself mr. fin.. anyway, have you read the comments of your fellow pro-V's? LIFE IS NOT FAIR.. so what's the point of having them around when they can't even justify the killings? for what? eliminate criminals? should i say it's YOU who needs to stay in touch with reality?

[fingolfin]

you're contradicting yourself mr. fin.. anyway, have you read the comments of your fellow pro-V's? LIFE IS NOT FAIR.. so what's the point of having them around when they can't even justify the killings? for what? eliminate criminals? should i say it's YOU who needs to stay in touch with reality?

.. holy C, in what way am i contradicting myself?? It seems you havent fully understood the meaning of that line i gave you. And what's the point of keeping criminals alive You still don't get it do you?? Criminals who's IN and OUT of jail are the prime targets of the V's. Most "V victims" have intensive criminal records, they treat prison as if it's their hotel, going in and out. Can i ask you what's your analogy of IN AND OUT OF PRISON?? Here you are claiming that you actually "know" the situation here in cebu, you're not even living in cebu, you haven't felt how it was when crime of every nature was littered all over the city.

[mannyamador]

Criminals who's IN and OUT of jail are the prime targets of the V's. Most "V victims" have intensive criminal records, they treat prison as if it's their hotel, going in and out.

That is a doubtful claim. Many of the vigilante's victims do NOT have criminal records at all. Many others have SERVED their sentences and have not been proven to have committed any other crimes for which they are wanted. In fact, many of the victims were just suspects.

What's more, most of the alleged crimes were just PETTY CRIMES, not major ones. Since when does snatching a handbag deserve the death penalty? Now if the criminal were committing repeated armed robbery with impunity, then perhaps there would be justification for more evere punishment, but in most of the cases, the punishment is totally out of proportion to the crime.

Finally, since the pro-Vs are so hot about punishing criminals, does that mean they would also justify assassinating politicians, who are are quite often some of the biggest thieves in this country? What about the corrupt BIR officialas? What about the billions stolen by the GMA's cohorts? What GMA herself who stole an entire national election? What about tax evaders like Lucio Tan, who was able to get away without paying P28 BILLION in taxes because of a technicality (the Erap administration did not file charges in time)?

If we follow the logic used by the pro-Vs, then such persons should be the prime targets! We should be gunning down a whole lot of elected officials and unscrupulous businessmen! The nation will be a wasteland! Or like the "Wild West".

This is the kind of madness the pro-V "logic" will lead to! It must be stopped.

[jugs_06]

.. holy C, in what way am i contradicting myself??  It seems you havent fully understood the meaning of that line i gave you.  And what's the point of keeping criminals alive  You still don't get it do you?? Criminals who's IN and OUT of jail are the prime targets of the V's.  Most "V victims" have intensive criminal records, they treat prison as if it's their hotel, going in and out.  Can i ask you what's your analogy of IN AND OUT OF PRISON??   Here you are claiming that you actually "know" the situation here in cebu, you're not even living in cebu, you haven't felt how it was when crime of every nature was littered all over the city.

there you go mr. fin, manny has already answered your "most V victims have intensive criminal records".. you don't even have any CONCRETE PROOF to back up that statement of yours, so... need i say more?

let's not talk about analogy here mr. fin.. coz i don't even see any logic as to why V's should be of great and utmost importance..

and never put it in my face that i don't know how worse crime is there in cebu coz I KNOW HOW IT IS.. and i know how ILLOGICAL it is to have V's when they're not even doing any good to start out with..

[kiatsy]

My response in red, bold, italicized prints.

Aww gee, resorting to name calling when you are proven wrong just shows you NEVER had a rational argument (or mindset) to begin with. Such mindlessness just won't fly.

Now, who is name calling? Isn't this proof enough? Ha! Ha!

An analogy is to simpliy matters in order to separate the chaff from the grains. I think this is very simple to understand.

And the name calling continues again and again and again. Ha! Ha!
Furthermore, the Machiavellian theory is oft repeated as a matter of practice in daily life. I do it. You do it. Everybody does it!

Those who desperately try to justify vigilantism using such irrational arguments do not realize that their thinking is exactly the kind of mindset that the CRIMINALS they hate so much use to justify their crimes. Many petty thieves, for example, justify their crimes on the grounds that they are doing a "little evil" (snatching cellphones, for example) for a "greater good" (such as feeding themselves or their families).

Again name calling. He He He. I am capable of sitting down and rationally approach the question at hand with a cold heart. (By the way, that is not name calling, huh.)[/color]

Wake up, vigilante supporters! You are thinking just like the criminals you hate![/b]
Never safe to walk in Colon? Well, I HAVE done so. Several times! And I DID expose valuable items. I used an expensive cellphone in Colon and opened a wallet with a lot of money in full view of everyone. On several occasions too. No one did anyhting against me. Nothing, zero, zilch! No danger or threat to me whatsoever.

You think anybody believes you? Comeon, we are not born yesterday. Bai, lumad mi Cebu. We walk the streets. I have my roots in Manila. We came from Tayuman, FYI.

I agree that Colon may not be the safest place in Cebu, but it is far safer than the seedier parts of Manila any day of the week. If I did the same in Tondo, I would have been killed or robbed within a few minutes.

And just to prove my point, I will do the same again in Colon a few more times. And I'll tell you about it here on Istorya.Net.

Good luck. And take note the time of the day.

[kiatsy]

Mods, palihug ug take out sa box ang akong response together with the quotations from the previous poster. (I posted today at 6:47:18 AM. ) I wanted to react to line by line quote. Thank you.

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

Still don't get it eh? Too much brain hurt?

Dont change the topic . We are talking about how INCOMPETENT you are when digging ideas to understand the core of it .

Where's the proof? Or is HOT AIR all you have, AS USUAL?

LOLZ .... be smarter than that MANNYBOY . I know you are but you not using it .

Death, death, and more death. Including the innocent.

LOLZ .... INNOCENT PEOPLE haver died since the days of the HOLY BIBLE STORIES . Why are you crying out loud now when it is not proven yet that it is the works of the VIGILANTES or not . Dont be guided by the medias ideology of SENSATIONALIZING things . It will make me firmly think 3 words for you . STUBBORN or PURE AMISH , LMFAO !!

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

TO ALL THOSE WHO ARE IN FAVOR OF VIGILANTES STYLE KILLINGS! what if one of your closed friends, relatives or worst one of your siblings was killed by vigilante because he/she was on the list of "people (people who had priviously served time in jail) needed to be killed for the sake of peace and order" r u going to leap and rejoice bec. he was killed eventhough he showed remorse and tried renewing his life?
try putting yourselves in the shoes of the relatives/friends of those who were killed.

Hey if my RELATIVE is a CHRONIC CRIMINAL , I will personally feed him with hot lead . DOnt be too blinded when you say GIPATAY GIHAPON SIYA BISAN NAG BAG-O NA SIYA . BULLCRAP .... thats what the media said and not what you said .

@ SINSIYO ... ask more of MANNYBOYS brilliant ideas of realistic suggestions because those suggestions he put out are mine ie neighborhood watch and task forces from the law enforcements and a good government .