MERGED: CPP-NPA-NDF Discussions (Issues, Updates, etc.)

[arnoldsa]

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zero_cool you professor is a leftist just liek mine when I was still in college... Therefore he is biased... it's like as if he is poisoning the minds of his students to follow the steps of Jo Sison... The government controlled by the military? The problem with these people is that they tend to be very "technical" and over-exaggerate things... Kulang nalang tawagon sila ug paranoid enough to land them in the psychiatric ward of VSMMC...

[gareb]

cutie_jenny:

i sincerely hope u do not confuse 'activism' with 'communism'... so many people have been victimized by this wrong perception. every one of the latter is an activist, but not all activist are of the latter.

You're right... But the problem is that man is inherently weak. The systems he creates are always riddled with flaws no matter what. Therefore "true communism" will always remain only a theory... It will never be achieved.

with this postulation in mind, why then is humanity trying to achieve higher levels of progress? why then does it strive to achieve a certain degree of development?

is all of this then worthless because it man, according to you, is 'inherently weak'? should we all stop this then...?

the problem with this kind of negativist line of thinking is that individualist human qualities are used as a justification to not do something about human condition. i am so sorry but this is so medieval.

this line of thinking does not differ from the medieval christianity that teaches man to suffer in this life, so that on the next he will be rewarded... a line that was used by the ruling class of their times as a justification in continuing their rapacious greed on the behest of the people... a scene that is not very far from the Philippine setting a hundred years ago. or in some instances, even at the present.

Rebels and Government work side by side.

on the contrary, they work to destroy each other. i recommend you read further on books about social justice.

Just like Erap... he was supported by the leftist.. And during the last elections, these groups went for FPJ... there was even this article in Jose Sison's website calling for support for FPJ... these guys never learn..

please substantiate these claims.

i am not sure where u were during erap's time, but it was the Left who first cried foul over erap. and the rest followed with the 'jueteng gate' case. the mainstream Left, officially and as a whole, never supported any of the presidentiables.

let it be known that the Leftist propaganda is not centered on figureheads like presidents. it does not focus its issues on who is the president and who is not, but the whole socio-political picture. it throws in no support for any of the presidentiables because its politics is not personality based (as opposed to the mainstream politics) but based on the theory of social classes.

to interpret how the Left maneuvers around wearing status quo glasses would only lead you to more disinformation and distortions, just like what seems to be apparent in this thread.

[gareb]

zero_cool:

ur prof was partially right. the military does not 'control' the government, but the influence that it has over it cannot be ignored. examine EDSA 1986, the various coup attempts during cory's time, ramos and his ex-AFP cabinet, Estrada and military budget, and GMA courting generals, expanding the military budget, military cover-ups, etc.

regarding the so-called quadrants, this could be of some help

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/poli...analysis2.html

if technicalities (or at least political jargon) is your problem, then why not let someone else explain what they are saying in purely intelligible terms? i do not believe that a book written in another language is garbage.

[arnoldsa]

Yup man is inherently weak and he is constantly trying to achieve progress but communism does not bring him to progress but rather to destruction... communism is a medieval system that will only further the country toward a more feudal set-up...

With regard to FPJ and Erap, then why did I saw that article in Jose Maria Sison's website calling for his support? I should have printed and saved that article so that I can show it to you... I really can't understand why leftists are so fond of backtracking... First during the 80s they were so supportive of the Oil Deregulation Law because they wanted "to break the oil cartel..." And now they are against it... During the last 2004 elections, Crispin Beltran together with Mr. Ocampo appeared on T.V. (Dong Puno Live) and proclaimed that they were 100% throwing their support behind FPJ...

Oh well I respect the fact that you belong to the left... I have many close friends there... One was even searched by the military...

cutie_jenny:

i sincerely hope u do not confuse 'activism' with 'communism'... so many people have been victimized by this wrong perception. every one of the latter is an activist, but not all activist are of the latter.

You're right... But the problem is that man is inherently weak. The systems he creates are always riddled with flaws no matter what. Therefore "true communism" will always remain only a theory... It will never be achieved.

with this postulation in mind, why then is humanity trying to achieve higher levels of progress? why then does it strive to achieve a certain degree of development?

is all of this then worthless because it man, according to you, is 'inherently weak'? should we all stop this then...?

the problem with this kind of negativist line of thinking is that individualist human qualities are used as a justification to not do something about human condition. i am so sorry but this is so medieval.

this line of thinking does not differ from the medieval christianity that teaches man to suffer in this life, so that on the next he will be rewarded... a line that was used by the ruling class of their times as a justification in continuing their rapacious greed on the behest of the people... a scene that is not very far from the Philippine setting a hundred years ago. or in some instances, even at the present.

Rebels and Government work side by side.

on the contrary, they work to destroy each other. i recommend you read further on books about social justice.

Just like Erap... he was supported by the leftist.. And during the last elections, these groups went for FPJ... there was even this article in Jose Sison's website calling for support for FPJ... these guys never learn..

please substantiate these claims.

i am not sure where u were during erap's time, but it was the Left who first cried foul over erap. and the rest followed with the 'jueteng gate' case. the mainstream Left, officially and as a whole, never supported any of the presidentiables.

let it be known that the Leftist propaganda is not centered on figureheads like presidents. it does not focus its issues on who is the president and who is not, but the whole socio-political picture. it throws in no support for any of the presidentiables because its politics is not personality based (as opposed to the mainstream politics) but based on the theory of social classes.

to interpret how the Left maneuvers around wearing status quo glasses would only lead you to more disinformation and distortions, just like what seems to be apparent in this thread.

[gareb]

arnoldsa:

i am not about to argue on the de/merits of communism, without first knowing what you understand about it; not mere impressions and opinion, but how u define communism.

mind you, Joma may be a voice from the Left, but he is not the Left, per se. to the mainstream Left, his views are only credible if it follows the Left's analysis of the current social conditions. anything aside from that is his own.

mind you, the statement that you have mentioned has also actually been interpreted as inclined towards GMA. Luis Teodoro would say so in his column. besides, it has been denied by their spokesperson. as you can see, the Left is not Joma's personality cult, contrary to what you hear. Joma is one of the more famous figures, but he does not dictate the movements of the Left.

i am not familiar with the stand of the Left during the 80's regarding the ODL, except for the fact that a certain degree of fragmentation has happened since then.

mind you, support for politicians by the legal Left is issue-based, meaning support is given to politicians who can be united in certain issues that the Left is pushing for. but that is the extent that the Left supports politicians. such was what happened during 1986 and 2001. the Left supported Aquino and GMA's rise to power if only to remove the more reactionary Marcos and Estrada governments respectively. what may come as a complete volte face to you may infact be because of discounting the social analysis of the Left regarding the issues, and the personalities on top. in this aspect, the Left has been consistent ever since the beginning.

Yup man is inherently weak and he is constantly trying to achieve progress but communism does not bring him to progress but rather to destruction... communism is a medieval system that will only further the country toward a more feudal set-up...

unfortunately, this does not answer my query regarding the purpose(and direction) of humanity's striving to better himself, if indeed he is 'inherently weak'.

a feudal set-up already exists in the philippines, or so the mainstream Left's analysis suggests. vast tracts of land in the country owned by a mere few, tenants living on mere crumbs, capitalists scrimping on wages and benefits, employees having an increasingly hard time to make ends meet, and a government run by the landowners and capitalists... i do not see how a collectivist society in place of this can be more 'feudal'. on the contrary, it may even be a way out.

i suggest you read again on the Left's analysis of the Philippine society and we'll take your objections from there.

[aninipot]

obviously all of you are learned men. why did russia collapsed during communism? why did china abandoned total communism and added capitalism flavor? what part of the world practiced true communism if russia and china never did?

is this just a dream? man is always propelled by personal motive. is there a government strong enough to make a man put collective good than personal interests?

[gareb]

aninipot:

russia did not collapse 'under' communism. it collapsed 'after'. the process however started under the banner of 'communism' which was actually sort of a revision of the basic principles of the ideology. right after stalin's death, the de-collectivisation of russia's agriculture and industires was done to gradually permit outside forces to exploit russia's market; gradually, as to make it seem that all of it was still under a socialist perspective. this was alos done to finance the global arms race, that ultimately led to russia bleeding its coffers to finance the blotched venture.

same is true with china. right after mao's death, deng xiaoping instituted drastic 'reforms' that further placed the chinese people's socio-economic status in jeopardy. we may see china today as a major economic power in the area compared to mao's time, but this economy hinges itself on speculative markets that the government does not have any control on. one major slip and the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997-98 will repeat itself again and this time, china will be most adversely affected.

please bear in mind that economic growth does not necessarily equate to the populace's socio-economic levels rising. take the philippines for example. a 6.5% growth was reported; quite remarkable for a country under heavy deficit. but one single data was not included. exactly what sector was benfited by this growth? where exactly did growth take place?

answer? influx of capital from outside the country. after that capital is exhausted, growth rates will level-off again. status quo logic would suggest that we need foreign investments to propell growth. bear in mind that investors do not invest unless they get something big in return. there goes your growth. meaning, only subsidiaries of multi-national and trans-national corporations are actually 'growing'. the populace is left in the dust.

everything starts in a dream. but we do not go on chasing dreams that we cannot catch. this is not exactly an issue of pitting 'collective good' against 'personal interests', but a 'class interest' versus another. please read marx's social theory and modes of production, and see if it is useful in the current social situation of the country or not.

[aninipot]

hmm. i don't see much of that book in National Bookstore. Your explainations posted in this thread are mind opener. And I would love the left to come out in the open, purge a strong political party and present their platform of governance to the masses. I believe that a truly informed people can discern what is beneficial to the whole country. It's really hard to teach on the run. Besides, Europe and even Japan has communist political parties in their government.

[gareb]

[b]aninipot[/a]:

the mainstream legal left, and other leftist factions have tried to pursue their social agenda through the legal electoral process, with mixed, but largely successful results. the problem they face is the constant baragge black propaganda by the govenment and other right-leaning formations, even to the extent of widespread killings of members of the legal Left.

the main thesis of the CPP is that it cannot participate in a process that cannot be a medium for true expression for the interest of thh people, as the electoral politics in the country is run by the ruling elite, those that control the politics as well as economy of the country. Danding Cojuanco is a prime example. the Left acknowledges that the interest of the people is almost always in contradiction with that of the ruling elite of whom the only interest is to maintain its hold of power and amass even more riches. the Left sees that the electoral politics of the country is a sham.

the Legal Left does not have any illusions of changing the social order through electoral politics, as their agenda (as can be seen presentky) is always given the least priority. their participation in the parliamentary struggle is basically to push for significant issues, and to organize the people on these issues. again, the Left's participation in this arena is almost always maginalized as those who dominate are the ruling class.

[annais]

i've been reading the posts on this forum though unable to follow the thoughts clearly. i'm not a big fan of the communist movement nor do i sympathize to the cause but i truly want to understand. so far, this forum has been very enlightening and educating.

anyway, i'd like to raise a point of privilege. theoretical belief in the importance of Standing Up (communist or socialist movements, activism) as well as street parliamentary doesn’t always necessarily translate into immediate action. people want solutions, there's a procedure to follow.