***truth about jesus christ!

[Kenshiro]

---

For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

This is a legitimate argument. I for one truly believe Christ is divine and the Son of God.
Christ needs to be humble and meek in order to be of good example to christians for his fate to be carried out as a sacrifice on the cross. If he would display his divine power to prevent men who seek to crucify him then there would be no crucifiction at all.

For those who don't believe Christ as God himself you have to believe that
Christ is a Liar and not even fit to be called a prophet. Since Christ claimed that he and God are one this is blasphemy.
So either you believed in Christ is divine or believe he is a liar but not a prophet.

[kai3rebel]

once again.. this is all a matter of faith..

[Resurgence]

Who said I am more concerned about his birth? I was just asking you when he started to exists in this world. But you already answered it, and you said he existed before he came to this world. (which of course CONTRADICTS your belief that Jesus is a man.)

Contradicts? hahay...kay imo belief is based on a thinking that you are your body. You are your "firstname""lastname" blah blah. Why should it contradict my belief? Do you think that I identify Jesus with his body? NO. I know I am not my body or whatever titles it has. I know I existed previously before I was born inside this body. My essence is that I am an eternal spiritual spark of God. My body may die, but I know I, the spiritual self, will never die. Your belief is based on false identification of the body.

As for Jesus, I know he existed even before he came to this world. Why? Because he is not his body, he is also an eternal spiritual spark of God, as are all of us living things in this world. Every living thing, from the one-celled bacteria to humans, is a spiritual spark of God. We are not our bodies or the titles of our bodies. Why? Every cell of your body is replaced every 5 years. The body you have today is not the same body you had 5 or even 10 years ago. If you were your body, you would have ceased existing when it's cellular structure was replaced. Even your Bible proves this (2 Corinthians 12:2). " I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)." How can you be IN or OUT of the body if you are the body?

Think again before you say that because I believe that Jesus existed prior to coming to this world contradicts my belief that Jesus is not God the Almighty.

[Resurgence]

Nope hindi "Trivial" ang malaman kung kailan nag-exist si Jesus. The fact na naniniwala kang Tao si Kristo means you will fail to follow God's instructions. Just read what's in my avatar. Now tell me, will you trust a Jesus Christ which is "tao"?

Now, the reason why I asked you when Jesus existed because it will answer the question - "Tao ba si Kristo o Dios". Kung naniniwala ka na si Jesus nag-exist lang nung ipanganak ni Maria - then you failed. Magkasama na sila ng Dios Ama before pa ang creation ng lahat ng bagay.

Php 2:5 Mangagkaroon kayo sa inyo ng pagiisip, na ito'y na kay Cristo Jesus din naman:
Php 2:6 Na siya, bagama't nasa anyong Dios, ay hindi niya inaring isang bagay na nararapat panangnan ang pagkapantay niya sa Dios,
Php 2:7 Kundi bagkus hinubad niya ito, at naganyong alipin, na nakitulad sa mga tao:
Php 2:8 At palibhasa'y nasumpungan sa anyong tao, siya'y nagpakababa sa kaniyang sarili, na nagmasunurin hanggang sa kamatayan, oo, sa kamatayan sa krus.

Joh 1:1 Nang pasimula siya ang Verbo, at ang Verbo ay sumasa Dios, at ang Verbo ay Dios.
Joh 1:14 At nagkatawang-tao ang Verbo, at tumahan sa gitna natin (at nakita namin ang kaniyang kaluwalhatian, kaluwalhatian gaya ng sa bugtong ng Ama), na puspos ng biyaya at katotohanan.

Si Jesus ay Dios, Dios na nagkatawang-tao. Kailan siya nagkatawang tao? - Nong ipanganak siya ni Maria.

If you say that you are not concerned with Jesus' birth or when his existence started, can you read the first line of your post?

[Resurgence]

This is a legitimate argument. I for one truly believe Christ is divine and the Son of God.
Christ needs to be humble and meek in order to be of good example to christians for his fate to be carried out as a sacrifice on the cross. If he would display his divine power to prevent men who seek to crucify him then there would be no crucifiction at all.

For those who don't believe Christ as God himself you have to believe that
Christ is a Liar and not even fit to be called a prophet. Since Christ claimed that he and God are one this is blasphemy.
So either you believed in Christ is divine or believe he is a liar but not a prophet.

I believe Jesus is divine, because of his love for God. NOT because of his power. His POWER was given to him. Since it was given to him, the question now is this, WHO GAVE HIM THAT POWER? If he were God the Almighty, then he would obviously have NO EQUAL or is anyone superior to him.

And when you say Christ claimed that he and God are one, how can a Father and his Son be one and the same in the first place? Yes they are one, IN LOVE. Not in power or identity. You mentioned that you believe that Jesus is divine and the Son of God. And in your second paragraph, now you say Christ IS GOD. Which one is it? I say that Jesus Christ is divine, because of his love for the Supreme Lord, and he is also a Son of God. But I do not say that he is God the Almighty. There lies the difference in what I believe in. I believe in Christ's teachings, that we should love God with all our heart, all our mind, our entire being. I do not place much emphasis on his power. He came here for one thing and one thing only, to preach LOVE for God.

[Resurgence]

I have no problems in the idea of the pre-incarnation existence of Jesus.

but using it for validating his equality with the father(God) is quite a weak reason.

yes. I agree with you regarding this.

[Kenshiro]

I believe Jesus is divine, because of his love for God. NOT because of his power. His POWER was given to him. Since it was given to him, the question now is this, WHO GAVE HIM THAT POWER? If he were God the Almighty, then he would obviously have NO EQUAL or is anyone superior to him.

And when you say Christ claimed that he and God are one, how can a Father and his Son be one and the same in the first place? Yes they are one, IN LOVE. Not in power or identity. You mentioned that you believe that Jesus is divine and the Son of God. And in your second paragraph, now you say Christ IS GOD. Which one is it? I say that Jesus Christ is divine, because of his love for the Supreme Lord, and he is also a Son of God. But I do not say that he is God the Almighty. There lies the difference in what I believe in. I believe in Christ's teachings, that we should love God with all our heart, all our mind, our entire being. I do not place much emphasis on his power. He came here for one thing and one thing only, to preach LOVE for God.

It doesn't matter if Christ is God or not He is one in purpose with God the Father.
Yes Christ is not God but he is part of the trinity God head. Christ says before the world he is.
Christ has his own divine power since he is part of the God head or they share the same power. But Christ is in human form.
Yes that is part of Christ purpose for coming here, but he also came to this world as a sacrifice for our sins so that if we accept his sacrifice our sins can be forgiven.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

God says it himself that who ever believes his son shall not perish but would have everlasting life.

"The bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world...I came down from heaven" (John 6:33,3.

Prophets never came down from heaven.

Based on the Bible Either you believe Jesus as:
1. Liar
2. the true Messiah (which considers what Jesus are saying are all true)

Its oxy*****ic if you believe Jesus as a Prophet.

[Resurgence]

It doesn't matter if Christ is God or not He is one in purpose with God the Father.
Yes Christ is not God but he is part of the trinity God head. Christ says before the world he is.
Christ has his own divine power since he is part of the God head or they share the same power. But Christ is in human form.
Yes that is part of Christ purpose for coming here, but he also came to this world as a sacrifice for our sins so that if we accept his sacrifice our sins can be forgiven.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

God says it himself that who ever believes his son shall not perish but would have everlasting life.


Prophets never came down from heaven.

Based on the Bible Either you believe Jesus as:
1. Liar
2. the true Messiah (which considers what Jesus are saying are all true)

Its oxy*****ic if you believe Jesus as a Prophet.

Hahay...did I say I believe that Jesus is a Prophet? wew. There is a big difference between what a prophet and a devotee of God is.
So you are saying that since Jesus is the only one "we" should believe in, then why do I have to go to church and listen to a rambling priest? He aint Christ. Anyone can claim that they believe in Jesus. But do THEY even follow his first and foremost commandment, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." (Matt. 22:37)? I don't think so. If he were God, he would have said directly that "Love ME with all your heart, all your mind, your entire being". But he didn't now, did he?

Are you sure that Prophets never came down from Heaven sir? I beg you to reconsider. How about John the Baptist then? Since no Prophet ever descends from Heaven, is he a fake then?

You are obviously undermining the capability and mercy of God's devotees. Even though they are in God's prescence, they DO FEEL PITY towards the people that are down here on this world, devoid of God-realization. That is why they descend, to establish the principles of God and destroy nescience or ignorance. A devotee of God feels mercy and is compassionate to all, not caring for himself/herself.

And once again about sacrifice. So basically, you think that a greater part of Jesus' mission was to die on the cross and redeem mankind through that? Then you are basically in league with Judas, Caiaphas and all those envious high priests. Then answer this. If that was Jesus' "purpose": to die on the cross and redeem "us" all, then why did he say "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."(Luke 23:34)? Answer me directly, no word jugglery like priests and evangelists use. Why would Jesus Christ ask his Father to forgive those who crucified him if his crucifiction was a "sacrifice" to redeem mankind?

[ketllac]

once again.. this is all a matter of faith..

Sakto ka part faith jud.

Faith ug truth mag-uban sad pero ang truth mahibaw-an basi sa historical accounts nga mao ang kamatuoran. Labi na ang faith sa mga apostoles nga nag tuo nga God si Jesus. Kung ato studihan ang history daghan grupo nituo nga si Jesus is just a mere man labi natong mga gnostic heresies nga sukwahi sa pagtuo sa apostoles like John nga si Jesus is both God and man. unya kinsa may pinaka credible ang account ni st. john nga close kaayo ni Jesus o ang heresy sa mga gnostics.?

Pag interpret ug bible should be nakalinya sa apostolic church o apostolic succession. kay kung balewala-on nato ni ang resulta is our own private interpretation nga wa nakabasi sa gipangbuhat o pagtuo sa mga apostoles. Mao nang kung mo examine kag bible ayaw gamita imohang panabot nga subjective kundi baliki ang unang panahon sa sakto nga konteksto labi na sa hebrew nga tradition. ibutang imo kaugalingon sa ilang custombre o naandan aron mihabaw-an nato.

Bible study is a science like the study of history.

tan awa ni ninyo--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics

[malic_2]

Bro, that doesnt necessarily mean they are equal.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

but sir in your previous post you said that Jesus is God,would not for that reason makes Jesus equal to the father?