MERGED: Naruto Discussions

[rockwell]

How much does a naruto manga cost?

Wait... how did the 4 volumes get here? By mail?

Yah. Heavy ang books. One Shonen Jump manga is about 200 to 300 grams. That's why expensive ang shipping.

When my friend's cousin bought manga for us, we saved on the shipping but luoy sad kaayo siya. Imagine having to lug around ?? books while shopping. (sweatdrops)

So you have Naruto manga waiting for you in Japan? ^^ That's like us gyud. We had to wait too. If you order online, it's lot faster but more expensive. Much cheaper if you have a friend or family in Japan, but you'll have to wait and... try not to think of the trouble they're going through.

Tyke's Comic Shop - I've been there. Somebody beat me to the Naruto manga. I don't know if they have re-stocked.

[yen]

(sighs) It's never a good idea to go window-shopping.

www.animaxis.com --- this is where I usually shop.

There's a new character book out and an artbook... @@ Chances are very high I'll be ordering them. ><;;

If anyone else wants to order, please let me know. I rather share shipping costs.

[vanceloma]

yeahm uchiha clan rocks. sasuke's auntie can use the sharingan to copy how to do laundry. or to analyzethe skillful knitting of her neighbor.

[animelover]

Just being careful. I've been in a lot of fandoms. I've seen theories mistaken as canon too many times. It's kind of like a disclaimer you see on fanfiction.

Ok. Yeah, there's a lot of that.

Not really. But that's just what I think. Seeing how strict they are with Chuunin exams... and that's just the Chuunin exams - I would think only 5-10% of any clan can master their Blood Limit techniques. Probably even less.

Ok, so we have established a difference in assumption and understanding. I say we assume it coz its not clearly stated in the manga.

The police force is also not on the same level as Anbu. I even think Uchiha Genins can join it. Police forces are responsible for what happens inside villages. Anbu are like commando teams.

Ah, there's no argument that ANBUs are more powerful than the Police force. But by how much, well, thats another matter of opinion.

Again, I think otherwise. For me, the occurence of Sharingan or other BloodLine limits only happens in the most talented of the clan.

Other members of the clan will have the potential. It's just that there is more potential in the ones with the purest bloodlines.

Again, a difference in assumption and understanding. Its something I think we cant convince each other on.

Nevertheless, the Cloud Nins of Lightning Country tried to kidnap her. Note. They're always after the head family members. The ones with the most potential to develop or master the bloodline limits.

It's not surprising to me that only a few in a clan are really good fighters. Even in the real world, our armies have always been dependent on an elite few - the ones we call heroes.

I have already stated my say on this head-of-the-clan matter. Furthermore, it was not stated why Hinata was kidnapped. But, it was clearly stated why they want to have her father in return for her dead kidnapper. It could be that the kidnapper wants money or anything else for Hinata, but again, it wasnt stated. On the other hand, unlocking the secrets of the Byakugan was the reason for asking for Hiashi's (?) head as well as payment for a dead head of a clan.

Real life? Heroes in armies? Lets not get hollywood here. In real life, our heroes are random. Those that survive war, out of pure bravery and/or fighting skills, maybe, but almost always, its out of pure luck.

Yah. But if the Byagukan can occur in any Hyuuga clan member, they too can master the techniques that require the Byagukan. I would think that it's harder to get White Eyes than it is to master the techniques that requires White Eyes.

To get White Eyes, you just have to have the bloodline or talent or the potential. This is random.

To master techniques that require White Eyes, you rely more on practice and hardwork than on luck.

If all the Hyuuga have White Eyes, it's more plausible to think that all of them can master White Eyes techniques.

Yes, thats how I see it.

Actually, Shikamaru and Shino's abilities are bloodline techniques. Same with Chou and Ino. They're unique to their families/clans. That's why their parents also have the same techniques. They're just not as... cool as the Sharingan and Byagukan.

Hmm, actually, they are just clannish techniques, not BL techniques. Note that these clans use instruments/tools for their techniques rather than any inherent physical ability: Shika-shadow, Chouji-food, Shino-bugs, Kiba-dog, Ino-line-of-sight/physical connection. Of course, we can search the manga for it to tell us if any of those clans have BL. But I highly doubt we can find it.

Anyways, if those were BL techniques, then surely those I mentioned above are also geniuses since they can already use their clans' techniques. But of course, they are not geniuses.

You've also answered your own question on how Itachi can wipe out the Uchiha Clan. If ordinary nins can wipe out nins with bloodline techniques then Itachi (who is an extraordinary nin with bloodline limits) can kill off his entire clan (most of who isn't half as talented as he is).

Yes, if I had the same train of reasoning as yours, I would have answered my own question. But, as above, we have differed in understanding.

Actually, I pointed this out because you mentioned something about Haku's clan. That the majority do not have BL, and so they can surely be killed by those w/o BL.

I disagree on this... It's more likely they'll freeze under extreme pressure than their potential bloodline techniques suddenly materializing. Adrenaline can do as much damage as help.

Besides, in the case of the Uchiha Clan massacre, (I think) Itachi would be killing them using mostly taijutsu.

Taijutsu because the Sharingan isn't as useful versus physical attacks.

If I was to accept that only a few could handle their BL, I would accept that they'll freeze under extreme pressure. But, it should come naturally, as its inherent to them. Hehehe We dont see eye-to-eye in a lot of things in Naruto.

Itachi killing his whole clan using taijutsu? Thats what I'm not satisfied about, even if Itachi is an excellent ninja at a young age.

And yes, mastery of a clan's BL is another thing. Only a genius could do that.

Hey... hardworkers can do that too...

And a hardworker can become a genius. W/c is what I mean when I say that a member w/ a BL can master his ability. Of course, this is if you will follow my reasoning --- which you wont.

Err... no no. Kage Bunshin isn't a forbidden technique. It's too useful a technique. What's forbidden is the extreme version of Kage Bunshin.

In the first chapter, when Naruto made hundreds? thousands? of clones --- that's what's forbidden.

Kage Bunshin is forbidden ... its the regular Bunshin thats not forbidden. By using the regular Bunshin, a clone is made w/o dividing with it the chakra of the creator. But with the Kage Bunshin, the chakra is divided evenly amongst the clones and the creator. Thus there is an increased risk as the number of clones are increased.

Also, even if Kage Bunshin is forbidden, it's not on the same level of forbidden as Magenkyou. You don't need to kill anyone (except maybe yourself) to master Kage Bunshin (or its extreme form) like how you have to kill your best friend in order to master Magenkyou.

There is a level to forbidden jutsus? Um, I dont think I've read that anywhere in the manga. Whats forbidden in the manga is just that - forbidden.

Well... Okay. But layoff on the loopholes a bit. Most things can be explained with a lot of thinking except when the loopholes have to do with time travelling... (ugh)

Why not term it as a loophole? Loophole as a definition (according to merriam-websters) is "a means of escape; especially : an ambiguity or omission in the text through which the intent of a statute, contract, or obligation may be evaded". I think it fits nicely to what I mean.

Yup! You can get all Naruto books for about 300 pesos each including shipping. But... only if you order about 15 to 20 volumes. You save on shipping if you order a lot at once instead of one book at a time.

I envy you on that. But I'll start collecting if I have saved some money na. Hehehe I know this kind of collection is expensive. I pay for my downloads man gud.

[yen]

Most of below are just theories and conjectures. Please only take what's in the manga, anime, character guides as canon fact.

Ok. Yeah, there's a lot of that.

No kidding. It's just fandom but I rather be safe than sorry.

Ok, so we have established a difference in assumption and understanding. I say we assume it coz its not clearly stated in the manga.

Well... it's a matter of deduction. I didn't just assume; I thought it through.

If only Uchiha can be a member of the police force and the Chunnin Exam severely limits the number of Chuunins... some of the police force have to be Uchiha Genins.

Like police cadets or something.

In times of war or difficulties, the number of Genins in the police force would even increase because the Chuunins and Jounins would be the first to be assigned to the warfront.

It parallels what happens in our own WWI and WWIIs. Cause the men were all off to war, women took over the jobs left behind.

Ah, there's no argument that ANBUs are more powerful than the Police force. But by how much, well, thats another matter of opinion.

A lot really. Police forces are like our police forces... They're responsible for keeping the peace within the community.

Commando forces are special ops. Jounins and Chuunins only. Probably no Chuunins... There's also the Tokubetsu? Jounin (Special Jounin).

Again, a difference in assumption and understanding. Its something I think we cant convince each other on.

Yah. I know. Though I wish you had made it obvious from the start that you had your own theories.

You just asked questions man gud and said you didn't understanding so naturally I thought you wanted to resolve the loopholes and plotholes you see in Naruto.

I have already stated my say on this head-of-the-clan matter. Furthermore, it was not stated why Hinata was kidnapped. But, it was clearly stated why they want to have her father in return for her dead kidnapper. It could be that the kidnapper wants money or anything else for Hinata, but again, it wasnt stated. On the other hand, unlocking the secrets of the Byakugan was the reason for asking for Hiashi's (?) head as well as payment for a dead head of a clan.

(sighs) I typed something here, and it's gone.

(re-types) It's like this. Your stand is that everyone in a clan has BL.

In that case, rival villages can just grab any Uchiha or Hyuuga and dissect them.

Remember Kakashi's explanation about Hunter Nins?

Hunter Nins chase around those nins which have been excommunicated by their villages. Their purpose is that their secrets, biological and otherwise, won't be revealed to the rival villages.

I dunno... maybe shinobis know gene manipulation or something. Orochimaru definitely knows something about experimenting on bodies.

Real life? Heroes in armies? Lets not get hollywood here. In real life, our heroes are random. Those that survive war, out of pure bravery and/or fighting skills, maybe, but almost always, its out of pure luck.

I wasn't thinking of Hollywood. I was thinking of historical generals such as Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Napoleon, etc.

I'm not an expert on Alexander the Great or Napoleon but I'm quite knowledgeable on Julius Caesar. He *was* a Genius. Also, his successor, Octavian aka Augustus was also a very clever man who made possible the Pax Romana.

Eh... if you want to argue against there being actual heroes in real life in the army, you'll be banging your head into a brick wall. We're taught about these extraordinary individuals in schools.

And it doesn't just have to be in the army, there are heroes in other fields. Just recently, I learned about a not-well-known inventor whose work made it possible for the British to crack the German's super code.

He wasn't a soldier but his work made him a hero.

Yes, thats how I see it.

Err... no, I don't think you get it. But never mind. We'll leave it at that.

Hmm, actually, they are just clannish techniques, not BL techniques. Note that these clans use instruments/tools for their techniques rather than any inherent physical ability: Shika-shadow, Chouji-food, Shino-bugs, Kiba-dog, Ino-line-of-sight/physical connection. Of course, we can search the manga for it to tell us if any of those clans have BL. But I highly doubt we can find it.

Oh. They are Bloodline Techniques. Ino's skill, for example, it's just in the family. Chou... oh yeah... only him and his family can do what he does.

Shino... definitely within the family.

Shikamaru's Shadow technique is also exclusive to the Nara Clan. His father even told the nins he was about to kill that it's clear they don't know much about this particular technique. Those Shadow techniques is something that other nins are told or warned about but they can't do it.

For Kiba, there are probably other clans who have similar techniques but I never said Kiba's technique was BL. You brought up Kiba first.

But let's differentiate their techniques from those of the Hyuuga and Uchiha. They're still blood-related but the Hyuuga and Uchiha have advanced bloodlines or bloodline techniques which are more useful or powerful.

Anyways, if those were BL techniques, then surely those I mentioned above are also geniuses since they can already use their clans' techniques. But of course, they are not geniuses.

You lost me. Do you have to be genius to have the Sharingan or White Eyes? Usually, they are only called geniuses when they master a lot of techniques which require practice. What is difficult to most comes effortless to geniuses. That's why they are called geniuses.

But Sharingan and White Eyes is something that just occurs or not occurs.

Yes, if I had the same train of reasoning as yours, I would have answered my own question. But, as above, we have differed in understanding.

Yah. Again, I wish you had stated your own theories in the first place so that we would be nitpicking your theories instead of nitpicking my theories.

Actually, I pointed this out because you mentioned something about Haku's clan. That the majority do not have BL, and so they can surely be killed by those w/o BL.

Right. And it is relevant to why Itachi was able to wipe out the Uchiha Clan. If the majority of Haku's clan did not have BL, then likewise, the majority of the Uchiha Clan didn't possess Sharingan.

If I was to accept that only a few could handle their BL, I would accept that they'll freeze under extreme pressure. But, it should come naturally, as its inherent to them. Hehehe We dont see eye-to-eye in a lot of things in Naruto.

Well... it's just that I've seen more people freeze under extreme pressure. It's a natural instinct to freeze when you see something dangerous.

There's an evolution theory that sort of explained that. You see, predators like wolves and lions usually don't attack until they see their prey running. That's when they are sure they have the upper hand.

If you face off a lion or a wolf, stare back at them - it will have second thoughts about attacking you.

But when you turn your back towards them and run - it knows you're scared of it.

You have to train a lot to overcome the freeze response. In a way, freezing is more advisable then just turning tail and running. But the best way is to not freeze and react offensively.

Itachi killing his whole clan using taijutsu? Thats what I'm not satisfied about, even if Itachi is an excellent ninja at a young age.

Eh? What's wrong with Taijutsu? Throwing a kunai (dagger) is actually taijutsu. Kicking, punching, etc. It's the mostly taijutsu users like Gai and Rock Lee who have better chances of defeating Sharingan wielders.

Sharingan is best against techniques that uses chakra. Like Ninjutsu.

Anyway, I do share your problem with Itachi destroying his clan but my reasons are a little different.

You don't like it because the Uchiha Clans sounds like a bunch of wusses.

My problem is that it's a bit of an overkill.

I prefer to have Naruto make sense to me. I like it too much. I want it to make sense.

Also, I got the character books. The amount of detail that went into developing each character... incredible really. I think the mangaka and his staff gave careful thought to the story, and I prefer to think it that way.

And a hardworker can become a genius. W/c is what I mean when I say that a member w/ a BL can master his ability. Of course, this is if you will follow my reasoning --- which you wont.

Eh... it's not as if you're following *my* reasoning. Be fair sad oy.

I don't get what you mean still.

I think we're having problems getting each other because you think the Sharingan or White Eyes is something that can be acquired via practice.

To me, they are things that come naturally or not. Something biological. It's like will I be tall or short? Something which only our genes or blood will determine.

Kage Bunshin is forbidden ... its the regular Bunshin thats not forbidden. By using the regular Bunshin, a clone is made w/o dividing with it the chakra of the creator. But with the Kage Bunshin, the chakra is divided evenly amongst the clones and the creator. Thus there is an increased risk as the number of clones are increased.

It's not forbidden. Practically everyone can do it. It's even used as a guide to how to use chakra effectively.

Even the other villages have their own version of Kage no Bunshin. Water Clone, Sand Clone, etc. etc.

But it is forbidden to non-Jounin level shinobis in the Leaf Village. (sighs) The Leafs are a bit soft. Plus, making too many clones can be dangerous to your health. I dunno. Maybe in the past, a Leaf nin died from making too many clones.

There is a level to forbidden jutsus? Um, I dont think I've read that anywhere in the manga. Whats forbidden in the manga is just that - forbidden.

Yah. I just explained above. When they say that this technique is forbidden, it can mean two things: Forbidden because someone's going to die OR Forbidden because you are not yet ready to do it.

It's like... how Tsunade scolded Jiraiya for teaching Naruto the Rasengan. Later on, Kakashi will also have something to say about that but then he shouldn't say anything cause he taught Sasuke the Chidori.

There are definitely several levels to "forbidden" not only in Naruto. In real life, we have the Ten Commandments.

Why not term it as a loophole? Loophole as a definition (according to merriam-websters) is "a means of escape; especially : an ambiguity or omission in the text through which the intent of a statute, contract, or obligation may be evaded". I think it fits nicely to what I mean.

Eh... you're taking it too literally. I meant that before saying there's a loophole, try to see if your loophole is really a loophole. If other people's way of thinking can unloop your loophole, it's not really a loophole.

A loophole is a loophole when no one can provide an explanation or a way out.

Besides... I think you're talking about "plot holes" not loop holes.

Plot holes is when "it can't possibly happen" or something off in a story.

Loop hole is an escape clause. Such as there's a loophole in a contract that allows this and that when the very purpose of the contract is make sure this or that doesn't happen.

[vanceloma]

cool kaau mo ug debate.

Huwat sa, manawag kog expert, Shikamaru! ali diri, paki explain daw aning bloodline limit abilities.

Shiokamaru: ha? It's too troublesome *sleeps*

[yen]

cool kaau mo ug debate.

Huwat sa, manawag kog expert, Shikamaru! ali diri, paki explain daw aning bloodline limit abilities.

Shiokamaru: ha? It's too troublesome *sleeps*

He's got the right idea. ^^ Fandom debates/discussions means too much free time.

But this is mild. If anyone is interested, I can post a link to a website where you can discuss and nitpick with fans who are *really* into Naruto. You can even improve your Japanese at this site.

[samokan]

yeah me i can also invite u to a anime forum, ur views will be debated there and be flame pa gyud

[animelover]

Most of below are just theories and conjectures. Please only take what's in the manga, anime, character guides as canon fact.

Well... it's a matter of deduction. I didn't just assume; I thought it through.

You make it sound as if I hadn’t thought it through. Maybe when I said we assumed it that we didn’t take time to think everything, but this is not what I mean. What I meant was even if we have thought it through, our conclusions are still out of the manga, therefore still our own assumptions, however logical our conclusions may be.

A lot really. Police forces are like our police forces... They're responsible for keeping the peace within the community.

Commando forces are special ops. Jounins and Chuunins only. Probably no Chuunins... There's also the Tokubetsu? Jounin (Special Jounin).

Yah. I know. Though I wish you had made it obvious from the start that you had your own theories.

You just asked questions man gud and said you didn't understanding so naturally I thought you wanted to resolve the loopholes and plotholes you see in Naruto.

Yah. Again, I wish you had stated your own theories in the first place so that we would be nitpicking your theories instead of nitpicking my theories.

For the first quote, I understood your reasoning the first time around.

For the second & third quote. What was I questioning? I was not satisfied how Itachi killed off his clan and everything. What theories? I don’t have my own theories. And I haven’t posted any theory of how Itachi killed his clan, did I? It just didn’t make sense to me. Along the way of discussing this topic, we’ve come across some points which we have differed in opinion. I have already said that we have already established this. Anyways, I thought I have made it obvious that since you cant convince me of your opinions, that I don’t expect my opinions to convince you either. No hard feelings. We just don’t see eye-to-eye.

(re-types) It's like this. Your stand is that everyone in a clan has BL.

In that case, rival villages can just grab any Uchiha or Hyuuga and dissect them.

Yes. That’s my stand. And yes, they can just grab any Hyuuga or Uchiha. (sigh) I have also said what I want to say in this matter. But I say it again, though, as I said earlier, I don’t expect you to share my view.

Its like this, if you get a cake, wouldn’t you like it to have icing too? So, if you get just any Hyuuga, will you be satisfied that you wont also get the secrets to the Kaiten and the 64-hit combo and what ever other techniques the main family has? That’s what I meant when I said “why settle for less�.

Eh... if you want to argue against there being actual heroes in real life in the army, you'll be banging your head into a brick wall. We're taught about these extraordinary individuals in schools.

We are taught historical figures … they are not necessarily heroes. There is a difference. Some are heroes, yes, but sad to say, most are just ambitious persons wanting to gain, or have gained more power, wealth, and territory. And no, I didn’t want to argue about actual heroes. I didn’t brought it up.

Oh. They are Bloodline Techniques…

…For Kiba, there are probably other clans who have similar techniques but I never said Kiba's technique was BL. You brought up Kiba first.

They are clannish techniques, taught only in the clan, but they are not BL (or advanced BL) techniques. It is not stated in the manga that they are BL (advanced or otherwise) techniques. Lets stick to what the manga says. If I’m mistaken, kindly direct me to which chapter and page, maybe I missed it.

And Kiba. Well, I was supposed to include him in the last post, but I forgot his name, I just remembered his dog, Akamaru.

You can at least concur that their techniques use tools/instruments unlike advanced BL/BL that is inherent – no instruments/tools necessary.

You lost me. Do you have to be genius to have the Sharingan or White Eyes? Usually, they are only called geniuses when they master a lot of techniques which require practice. What is difficult to most comes effortless to geniuses. That's why they are called geniuses.

But Sharingan and White Eyes is something that just occurs or not occurs.

Hyuuga w/ black eyes? Hehehe I don’t know, that sounds yucky . I stick to what I think. Hyuuga or Uchiha or any clan with an advanced BL can learn how to use byakugan/sharingan. But only a few can learn the clan’s most treasured techniques.

Well, I don’t think I understand how you interpreted my post, but anyhow, I’ve said what I want to say.

Well... it's just that I've seen more people freeze under extreme pressure. It's a natural instinct to freeze when you see something dangerous.

What … and its unnatural not to uncover hidden talent or activate dormant ability in intense conditions? This situation happens in almost all anime/manga? Why not activating Byakugan/Sharingan?

You don't like it because the Uchiha Clans sounds like a bunch of wusses.

My problem is that it's a bit of an overkill.

Yes and yes.

Eh... it's not as if you're following *my* reasoning. Be fair sad oy.

I did say that I follow your reasoning, I’m just not convinced.

I don't get what you mean still.

Well then, I’m sorry about that. Maybe, I’m not clear enough.

I think we're having problems getting each other because you think the Sharingan or White Eyes is something that can be acquired via practice.

… via practice and/or if they are subjected to intense conditions.

To me, they are things that come naturally or not. Something biological. It's like will I be tall or short? Something which only our genes or blood will determine.

Yes. I got what you mean already.

But it is forbidden to non-Jounin level shinobis in the Leaf Village. (sighs) The Leafs are a bit soft. Plus, making too many clones can be dangerous to your health. I dunno. Maybe in the past, a Leaf nin died from making too many clones.

I will quote what is said in the manga. Iruka said to Naruto “That is a dangerous scroll that has forbidden ninjutsu sealed within it.� Its not a scroll that has forbidden ninjutsu for genins and chuunins, its forbidden for everybody.

Yah. I just explained above. When they say that this technique is forbidden, it can mean two things: Forbidden because someone's going to die OR Forbidden because you are not yet ready to do it.

Pls yen, you yourself said to stick to the manga. I have been sticking to the manga. Its forbidden when there’s risk. Period. There is no OR, IF and whatever. Like I said, forbidden is forbidden.

There are definitely several levels to "forbidden" not only in Naruto. In real life, we have the Ten Commandments.

I don’t think I want to go to that again.

Eh... you're taking it too literally. I meant that before saying there's a loophole, try to see if your loophole is really a loophole. If other people's way of thinking can unloop your loophole, it's not really a loophole

Besides... I think you're talking about "plot holes" not loop holes.

Plot holes is when "it can't possibly happen" or something off in a story. .

Oh, Ok. I thought you meant it literally too coz you mentioned something about time travel or something (were you joking around?).

Well then lets use plot holes. I used loophole coz of a lack of a better term.

[animelover]

Yeah, I've had my share of flame wars. Hehehe Sometimes I enjoy it, sometimes not.

Free time? I got some. Why not spend it discussing what you enjoy? Its better than spending money at the mall, and get fat in the process.