Kinsa jud imo gituohan kung diin jud tah gikan, ang Bible or Science?

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

For me, YES...

Is that a belief na FEEL lang nimo or is it backed by a logical sense and explained answers ?

Every living things started with simple organisms... Humans started as apes and NOT cells or human beings...

Hehehe ... so bai ang APES are not composed of CELLS per se according to you so therefore we did not evolved into something out of SIMPLE ORGANISMS since according to BIOLOGY , naa man jud na cells . So uns aman jud ?

You have to understand evolution, it won't just pop out as humans coming out of a cell.. TIME plays a role as per the term EVOLVED...

So its possible na ang human beings maybe 50 years later kay naa na PAKO , SUNGAY , FANGS , CLAWS etc because we evolved ?

[hitch22]

SO if atong subayon jud .... lupad ug layo back to the future ta .... time machine swoosh !! .... considering ma trace nimo ang first human beings , they start as a CELl or HUMAN BEING na ang porma nila ? CHICKEN and EGG debate na sad sa ?

Springfield, I'd like to take a swing at this...hope you don't mind.

When Darwin and Wallace first postulated Evolution as an explanation of how species came about, that's exactly the question they attempted to answer: HOW DID ALL THE DIFFERENT SPECIES CAME ABOUT? At that time, Paley's Natural Theology was the dominant paradigm in explaining life on earth...that all species were created at once and were immutable, as per the story of Genesis.

In science, we accept that the Earth is around 4.5 billion years old and the first living cell probably appeared about a billion years (or less) after the Earth was formed. In science, we also accept that species appeared at various points on the geological time scale, with homo sapiens appearing around 200,000 years ago. Think. Once there were no rabbits and suddenly they're there. Once there were no elephants nor wolves and suddenly they're there. And once there were no homo sapiens and suddenly we're here. And even to this day, new species are continually being discovered. How do you explain that? Is it more likely that God, from time to time, plants a male and female of a new species in some non-descript location, when nobody is looking, and allowed them to multiply? Or could it be that species evolved from ancestor species? Now, where do you suppose science would lean more towards, as far as starting an investigation is concerned?

The process of evolution is one which takes place over many generations, so it's really difficult to witness spectacular changes like major speciations. So how does science find out if evolution did happen? One of the best evidence actually comes from DNA. If evolution did happen, what should we observe, say, from our own genome? Well, you should expect to see vestigial genes (coming from ancestor DNA) that are de-activated due to mutations or some other evolutionary process. And what do we find? We find all sorts vestigial genes: genes that used to make yolk (indicating that we descended from an ancestor that make yolk), genes that used to make a tail (indicating that we descended from an ancestor that had a tail), genes that used make vitamin C, genes that used to make olfactory receptors (for sniffing proteins...present in reptiles like lizards), etc. All these vestigial genes are present in our genome and all are de-activated or degraded. The Theory of Evolution makes predictions about what we would find...and so far, all the evidence that science have uncovered, even with the use of new technologies like genome sequencing, supports the theory even further.

The Theory of Evolution is not complete. That is true. That Evolution happened is not in dispute, as far as the mainstream scientific community is concerned. The areas of research and investigation and even fierce debates lie on the question of how evolution proceeded...and what other mechanisms are involved in the process, apart from mutation and genetic variation. Craig Venter's breakthrough in the development of the synthetic cell, for example, revealed a new evolutionary mechanism. Here's a quote from his press conference:

And it was pretty stunning when we put this in the cell -- and you'll appreciate our very sophisticated graphics here -- the new chromosome went into the cell. In fact, we thought this might be as far as t went, but we tried to design the process a little bit further.

This is a major mechanism of evolution right here. We find all kinds of species that have taken up a second chromosome or a third one from somewhere, adding thousands of new traits in a second to that species. So people who think of evolution as just one gene changing at a time have missed much of biology.

[AMD_fan]

Is that a belief na FEEL lang nimo or is it backed by a logical sense and explained answers ?

Of course, it is backed by facts and logical thinking...

Hehehe ... so bai ang APES are not composed of CELLS per se according to you so therefore we did not evolved into something out of SIMPLE ORGANISMS since according to BIOLOGY , naa man jud na cells . So uns aman jud ?

Lahi rman imong pangutana bai... lol... Diara imong pangutana bai o: considering ma trace nimo ang first human beings, they start as a cell or HUMAN BEING na ang porma nila ? CHICKEN and EGG debate na sad sa ?

Actually bro, ang imong gipangutana is ang PORMA nila as a human being... You can't call a single cell a human being... lol...

So its possible na ang human beings maybe 50 years later kay naa na PAKO , SUNGAY , FANGS , CLAWS etc because we evolved ?

Lol... dli mana ingon ana nga ma butangan ka ug pako, sungay, fangs, claus, etc kay mag depende mana sa imong surroundings ug ang need for survival nimo bro... hehehe.. Kung wa ka ka bantay, ang mga tao karon, mas tag-as kumpara sa niaging mga years... but I assure you bro, human brain is evolving...

By the way bro, dli diay na pwede nga ang way pako nga creature ma tugkan ug pako within 50 years... hehehe... It will take approximately MILLION YEARS...

Just look at hitch's post above... ehehehe

Ngano diay bai if science, daghan kaayo pangutana... pero if ginoo na gani sa pag himo sa kalibutan or si kinsa ang ga himo niya, dli mn mo mangutana? hehehe.. Can you discuss what particles made first and the detailed explanation how humans were made that day and the detailed creation of everything from the bible's perspective?

[AMD_fan]

double post...

[SPRINGFIELD_XD_40]

Of course, it is backed by facts and logical thinking...

Then where is it ?

Lahi rman imong pangutana bai... lol... Diara imong pangutana bai o: considering ma trace nimo ang first human beings, they start as a cell or HUMAN BEING na ang porma nila ? CHICKEN and EGG debate na sad sa ?

Same concept na bai . Considering APE jud ta gikan , adult APE ang kalit lang ni tunga or out of that cell nahimo ang APE ? if the latter then who took care of the infant APE ? Di ba mao man na ang walay kahumanang EGG and CHICKEN DEBATE ?

Actually bro, ang imong gipangutana is ang PORMA nila as a human being... You can't call a single cell a human being... lol...

Pero asa man gikan ang APES na according nimo ginikanan pod sa human beings ? Di ba dili man tao ang itsura sa APES ?

Lol... dli mana ingon ana nga ma butangan ka ug pako, sungay, fangs, claus, etc kay mag depende mana sa imong surroundings ug ang need for survival nimo bro... hehehe.. Kung wa ka ka bantay, ang mga tao karon, mas tag-as kumpara sa niaging mga years... but I assure you bro, human brain is evolving...

If wala ko nakabantay tag-as ang tao karon ... karon pa ko actually . Mas bright pa man gani because we altered and maximized the potential of that human being sa gamay pa . mao bitaw na sa propaganda " BATANG MAY LABAN " . But bottomline is , we did not become HUMAN BEINGS out of APES tungod kay ni maximized ta or if kung mao man gani na .... why do TRIBESMEN , ang ilahang physique kay HUMA BEINGS man lang gihapon ? SHould they adapt what the wild animals have to survive in the wilderness ??

By the way bro, dli diay na pwede nga ang way pako nga creature ma tugkan ug pako within 50 years... hehehe... It will take approximately MILLION YEARS...

So everything is still UNCERTAIN ... in short wala pa answer ang SCIENCE pod so to make it shorter pa jud UNCERTAIN pa sad that equates to no conclusion but then what we see and read here murag CERTAIN na man kaayo gud .

Ngano diay bai if science, daghan kaayo pangutana... pero if ginoo na gani sa pag himo sa kalibutan or si kinsa ang ga himo niya, dli mn mo mangutana? hehehe..

That is the whole brouhaha all about . I am a THEIST and for the record , I believe in EVOLUTION , I wa sjust making things complicated but then I cant say I am right because its what I feel is correc but my point is ... some or most people here in the forums failed to look at SCIENCE explaining how Book of Genesis came to be .

@HITCH ...

Ok ra papa ... my only point bringing it up is , the very classic na issue that it is still a THEORY . Unless they were there billions of years ago also to witness it but then kutob ra man sila sa studies that are not concluded . Just because they are reseaerchers , scientist etc di na sila masayop . Vice versa pod na ... but then what makes more sense , of course adto ta mo lean but its not a guarantee .

[kizzy_met21]

may nalang gani kay theory nya nganong ang religion mamugos man jud na mutuo ang mga christians sa bible or sa story of creation? den kung naa gani christian nga mo react about sa story of creation daghan kaayong mo kontra nya masuko pa...scientists never forced people nga mutuo ug mu worship ug something na dli jud ma kit-an pero ang religion mura man ug dictator ang pamaagi, kung di ka mo tuo i cast down ka...it's not fair at all, when in fact the main reason nganong daghang christians is because they were given that religion and brainwashed to believe it the moment we were born...the good thing is some people are smart enough not to be fooled...kung naay freedom ang mga bata karon nga mu pili unsa ilang gusto nga religion and if different religions were being taught at schools to give children the opportunity to choose which they prefer, kana nuon mas fair...

[AMD_fan]

Then where is it ?

I have one example:

Bible says the world is 6,000 years old... But in fact, the world is 4.5 BILLION YEARS... so therefore, the bible is wrong and if it's wrong, it's not true... hehehe..

Same concept na bai . Considering APE jud ta gikan , adult APE ang kalit lang ni tunga or out of that cell nahimo ang APE ? if the latter then who took care of the infant APE ? Di ba mao man na ang walay kahumanang EGG and CHICKEN DEBATE ?

Dali mana mo kalit tunga bro... Again, IT IS GRADUAL CONSIDERING THE TIME... Just Imagine MILLION YEARS... hehehe...

Pero asa man gikan ang APES na according nimo ginikanan pod sa human beings ? Di ba dili man tao ang itsura sa APES ?

Again, Dali mana mo kalit tunga bro... Dli mana gikan sa ape nya ang anak kay human... hehehe.. Again, it TAKES TIME (millions)... Lahi2x na ug mga nawong bro...

If wala ko nakabantay tag-as ang tao karon ... karon pa ko actually . Mas bright pa man gani because we altered and maximized the potential of that human being sa gamay pa . mao bitaw na sa propaganda " BATANG MAY LABAN " . But bottomline is , we did not become HUMAN BEINGS out of APES tungod kay ni maximized ta or if kung mao man gani na .... why do TRIBESMEN , ang ilahang physique kay HUMA BEINGS man lang gihapon ? SHould they adapt what the wild animals have to survive in the wilderness ??

Mao gani ingon ana gihapon ilang physique bro kay tungod tribesmen sila, ni adapt sila sa ilang environment... skillful jud kaayo ni sila pag panakop ug mga hayop ug ang ilang muscular sturdiness lahi ra pud...
mura ra imo pangutana nganong ang negro naa sa america itom gihapon... hehehe..

So everything is still UNCERTAIN ... in short wala pa answer ang SCIENCE pod so to make it shorter pa jud UNCERTAIN pa sad that equates to no conclusion but then what we see and read here murag CERTAIN na man kaayo gud .

Science can lead us through evidence, not just evidence, but facts and religion has nothing but only faith with a written scripture... Science through evidence and facts, built amazing things from computers to medicine facilities and even made our lifespan longer...

That is the whole brouhaha all about . I am a THEIST and for the record , I believe in EVOLUTION , I wa sjust making things complicated but then I cant say I am right because its what I feel is correc but my point is ... some or most people here in the forums failed to look at SCIENCE explaining how Book of Genesis came to be .

Science can't explain how the book of genesis came to be because, again, it's not science... It's a fairy tale... By the way, Science did look into genesis, but sad to say, they found no evidence....

[jet]

bro, dli abi kay tungod sa atong pagka complex, mo largo lng ta ug sulti na naa gyud tay creator..
In fact, ang atong lawas, dli jud perfect, like sa mata nga naa ghapon blind spot, layo ra kaayo sa ubang species..

Kung mo ingon mn gani kang tungod sa complexity mao nka sulti ka ngano naay Creator,
pangutan-a imo kaugalingon na kung tinuod naay creator, therefore, mas complex pa siya nato kay kahibaw gud siya mag magic2x..Unya kahibaw pa gyud siya mo himo ug tao ug kalibutan... ang pangutana karon, kinsa man diay gahimo sa God nga grabe mn siya ka complex?
Kung grabe mn jud gali ka complex ang God, mas sobra pa ka complex ang naghimo sa God, kinsa mn ang gahimo sa God? Kinsa pud ang naghimo sa naghimo sa naghimo sa God? hehehe...

Kung basehan nimo ang science, nag sugod sa pinaka simple nga organism ug ni evolve through time... Kung basehan pud nimo ang God2x, nag sugod jud sa complexity... Think about it...

Science has more logical outcome...

we are more special than the world's best super computer because we evolved MILLIONS OF YEARS and computers just started about 1970s...

walay ni himo ni God bro. perhaps your watching too much transformers 2? haha kato nga line "you gotta wonder, if God made man in his own image, who made him?(optimus)"

revelations 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last." walay nag himu ni God bro. cya jd na in the beginning ingon ana jd na. i know we humans can't comprehend this thought. bsag unsaon nato pag bali bali, dili jd tah ka comprehend ug maayo...
and tendency sa humans is... bsta di gani ka sabot.. di mu tuo. mao dayon na. to see is to believe dayon. base pa sa mga atheist. (when Jesus was crucified) "if you are God, get down from that cross.." mao na ila gusto. proofs.. proofs nga makita sa naked eye. murag sa court bah nga dapat jd naay evidence to prove your innocence. which is sahay naay evidence.. pero di sad tah ka deny nga naa sad jd times nga walay proof pero innocente jd ang tao. pero guilty ghapn dba? tungod walay proof bsag innocente.

ikaw bro pangutanon tika... if tarung jd ka nga lalake, nya naay bata way buot mu ingon nimo "hoy isog man kaha ka, hali diri bagay tah beh if isog ka.." mu patol kaha ka? if tarung ka nga lake, bsag khbaw ka ma pilde ayo ni nimo ang bata, di ka mu patol. kay alangan bata bya walay buot. mura rana ang lake dili mu patol ug babae. kung mu patol ka, nagpa ila ra jd ka nga ikaw utro pud ka way buot.
mura rana.. "the sly eagle doesn't flaunt its power". God is the same. God doesnt' need to prove to you that he is God. he doesn't need do something miraculously to satisfy your beliefs. he doesnt need to go down to the level nga mu submit cya to us humans.. He is God. nara na nimo if mu tuo ka.
mura rana mu ingon kog, nara na nimu mu tuo ka if maayo ayo ko nga drummer. i don't need to prove to you i'm dat good. i dont "need" to prove it to you? but if i want it, den consider yourself lucky.

why do you think mga karaan nga tao mu believe ug supernaturals? like mga sigbin, aswang, etc etc.. bot bot bah na tanan?
you think all of this people are just making bogus stories? it may not be as accurate as what they said but the point is, naay na happen. maybe na sobraan nila explain.. but the thing is naay naka cause why naka sulti cla ana. naa jd nang mga espirito even science can prove that naa juy something mu change sa atmoshpere when a ghost is around. if you don't believe in ghosts, come to my house live for a week, i guarantee you will feel something extraordinary.

my point? people just don't write stories and legends the same trend all over again for thousands of years for nothing. the bible may have different perspective about God, so is the koran, so does the buddhist, so does other legends. even greeks, even romans.. etc etc it may not be as accurate as being said on the documents, different races-different versions. but the thing is, same message ra ila gi emphasize. naay God. naa juy na happen ana nga day nga for so many years these documents still exists.. heck, even my lola keep on repeating how sa ilang panahon lahi ra ayo ang kalibutan. nya na pasa nana to my generation. don't tell me my lola is wrong? haha

ofcorz mas sayon i believe ang science, naa na gud na dira right then and there. u can see it in your naked eye..
just try to observe the environment bro.. observe it well.. you can really say, naa juy God. hehe

[AMD_fan]

walay ni himo ni God bro. perhaps your watching too much transformers 2? haha kato nga line "if God made man, who made him?(optimus)"

Actually wa ko kita transformers 2... lol...

revelations 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last." walay nag himu ni God bro. cya jd na in the beginning ingon ana jd na. i know we humans can't comprehend this thought. bsag unsaon nato pag bali bali, dili jd tah ka comprehend ug maayo...

Liman ka ana? Siya ang sinugdanan, di ka mag duda ana?
Ang imo ingon mao naa gyuy creator nato kay grabe ta complex... unya ug ingnon lng ka nga ang ginoo wala creator pero sobra pa ka complex sa humans, mo too ka?

and tendency sa humans is... bsta di gani ka sabot.. di mu tuo. mao dayon na. to see is to believe dayon. base pa sa mga atheist. (when Jesus was crucified) "if you are God, get down from that cross.." mao na ila gusto. proofs.. proofs nga makita sa naked eye. murag sa court bah nga dapat jd naay evidence to prove your innocence. which is sahay naay evidence.. pero di sad tah ka deny nga naa sad jd times nga walay proof pero innocente jd ang tao. pero guilty ghapn dba? tungod walay proof bsag innocente.

Dli lng na mao bro, how about the evidences? There's no such evidence that Jesus was crucified nor he existed... So how can you be so sure, without any evidence, that your God is the true god and not Shiva or Zeus? Every religion has faith, every religion has stories and every religion has it's own scriptures...
Sobra pa sa nakasabot ko bro, mao bitaw nahimo kung atheist...
Ang mga theist noon kay kung dli na gani ka sabot sa evolution or grabe na gani kaayo ka complex ang usa kabutang, ipa agi nlang sa pagtoo nga naay creator... hehehe...

ikaw bro pangutanon tika... if tarung jd ka nga lalake, nya naay bata way buot mu ingon nimo "hoy isog man kaha ka, hali diri bagay tah beh if isog ka.." mu patol kaha ka? if tarung ka nga lake, bsag khbaw ka ma pilde ayo ni nimo ang bata, di ka mu patol. kay alangan bata bya walay buot. mura rana ang lake dili mu patol ug babae. kung mu patol ka, nagpa ila ra jd ka nga ikaw utro pud ka way buot.
mura rana.. "the sly eagle doesn't flaunt its power". God is the same. God doesnt' need to prove to you that he is God. he doesn't need do something miraculously to satisfy your beliefs. he doesnt need to go down to the level nga mu submit cya to us humans.. He is God. nara na nimo if mu tuo ka.
mura rana mu ingon kog, nara na nimu mu tuo ko if maayo ayo ko nga drummer. i don't need to prove to you i'm dat good. i dont "need" to prove it to you? but if i want it, den consider yourself lucky.

It's just because bro, I'm an atheist and I don't believe in God or any other gods... That's your own belief... What we got is evidence, facts and logic... If I will worship Shiva, can you say he never existed? What if you were born in a country where Shiva was praised, would you praise the God of the bible?

Kung imong mind set ingon ani, what if mo ingon ko nimo nga nakakita nako ni Shiva gabie ug nagpakita na siya nako? mo too na ka ni Shiva?

why do you think mga karaan nga tao mu believe ug supernaturals? like mga sigbin, aswang, etc etc.. bot bot bah na tanan?
you think all of this people are just making bogus stories? it may not be as accurate as what they said but the point is, naay na happen. maybe na sobraan nila explain.. but the thing is naay naka cause why naka sulti cla ana. naa jd nang mga espirito even science can prove that naa juy something mu change sa atmoshpere when a ghost is around. if you don't believe in ghosts, come to my house live for a week, i guarantee you will feel something extraordinary.

Bro, kahibaw ba ka sa medical field about delusions, hallucinations and other mental illnesses? If you get my point... We don't believe in such supernaturals...

my point? people just don't write stories and legends the same trend all over again for thousands of years for nothing. the bible may have different perspective about God, so is the koran, so does the buddhist, so does other legends. even greeks, even romans.. etc etc it may not be as accurate as being said on the documents, but the thing is, same message ra ila gi emphasize. naay God. naa juy na happen ana nga day nga for so many years these documents still exists.. heck, even my lola keep on repeating how sa ilang panahon lahi ra ayo ang kalibutan. nya na pasa nana to my generation. don't tell me my lola is wrong? haha

Bro, please read some history books about religion and why Christianity dominated and not just connect all religions into one...

Unsa may kalabutan sa lahi pa ang kalibutan sa panahon sa imong lola bro?

ofcorz mas sayon i believe ang science, naa na gud na dira right then and there. u can see it in your naked eye..

Ug mo ingon ka sayon i believe ang science, you will be an atheist... Asa may sayon anang mo ingon lng ka nga gi himo ra largo sa ginoo unya ang ginoo walay sinugdanan kaysa sa evolution? think about it... Don't be close minded...

[Bangkilan]

ari nga thread nato mahibaw-an kung asa jud ang mas gi tuohan nato ning nag gama sa atong kinabuhi diri sa kalibutan...



explain well why did u bliv in Bible or Science. . .




plss. reply in this thread. . .

when man felt that science was eroding his faith

s/he either turned to a more remote or modified

teaching which had not yet come under attack or

else he became a humanist or Egoist a.k.a materialist.

*s/he was not able to stand still*