FREE MASONRY - the Principles

[Jacks]

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oh, manny, don't worry, i take no offense whatsoever to whatever you said that was directed unto me... LOL, didn't really affect me...

also, maybe i should just answer you from time to time... for fun... reading your replies to the others seem quite fun to read really... ...

"Their teachings CONTRADICT each other, and therefore one cannot be truly faithful to both masonic teaching and Catholic doctrine." - manny

"I am a Christian and a Catholic. My family goes to mass every Sunday, prays the Rosary every Wednesday, adheres to what the Bible teaches...and have even visited the Vatican 2 times already as a tourist. As a matter of fact, my family flocked to the old Lahug airport in the 80s just to hear mass celebrated by Pope John Paul II. As a senior high school student then from a well known Catholic school in Cebu, I was a member of a choral group who sang in that memorable event.

On one hand, since the 80s I have been a member of the International Supreme Council Order of DeMolay (LLC) and have been very proud to be one. In fact, I would love if my kids someday would also be one. Another thing, my great grandfather is a freemason, my grandfather is a freemason and my father is a freemason too.

The threads here surprises me. Abcourse, personally I have read "long ago" some of the references presented, but it's just now that this has been presented with TOO MUCH CONFLICT as though both cannot live or co-exist in the same dimension..... a situation that I haven't felt my entire life being brought up by a Mason father and as a DeMolay myself. " - spot

um, well so far according to that post, i see he's one of the better catholics around these days --goes to mass every sundays and prays the rosary... not many catholics actually do that now adays... i mean really... but you can post surverys or anything on this to make me reverse this belief of mine... it'd be interesting to know the numbers-- and he, and member of his family, are also masons or a member of mason-related groups...

i think that shows he is faithful to the catholic church, and faithful to the freemasonry-connected group [demolay]... or maybe you're gonna say he's not really faithful to the church? or to the freemasonry-related group [demolay]?...

and also, thanks for trying to clear out meaning of things... it's appreciated...

[mannyamador]

i think that shows he is faithful to the catholic church, and faithful to the freemasonry-connected group [demolay]... or maybe you're gonna say he's not really faithful to the church? or to the freemasonry-related group [demolay]?...

First of all, we should not judge the individual person (meaning Spot), as even Pope Leo XIII said. I speak in general terms when I point out the incompatibility between freemasonry and Catholic teaching. Even the penalty of excommunication is not a final condemnation of a person but rather a judgement on the ACT of joining freemasonry.

Now, if we have to make a guess as to his situation (and I think it's unnecessary for US to do so), however, I would say it's the latter. This is because he does not seem to believe that all religions are equally pleasing to God, and neither does he actively plot against the Catholic Church or consider its teachings as an enslavement (as many freemasons have claimed in some form or another). Again, see the statement of Pope Leo XIII.

May I suggest, we NOT judge Spot or his family. Different types of people co-exist. :mrgreen:

[Jacks]

ah... so would it be right for me to assume that you believe there is nothing wrong to a person [except for being a mason] if he does not plot against the church?... i remember it being said to be the reason why the church is against freemasonry, in one of the previous posts... if it's not right, kindly enlighten me why it is not...

[mannyamador]

ah... so would it be right for me to assume that you believe there is nothing wrong to a person [except for being a mason] if he does not plot against the church?... i remember it being said to be the reason why the church is against freemasonry, in one of the previous posts... if it's not right, kindly enlighten me why it is not...

It's ONE of the reasons. There are others. So as not to repeat an earlier post, here is the link to an article I posted earlier that enumerated this and some other reasons:

CATHOLICS AND THE FREEMASON 'RELIGION'
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/WHATMAS.HTM

[Jacks]

um, i guess i should ask you again... ...

so would it be right for me to assume that you believe there is nothing wrong to a person [except for being a mason] if he does not plot against the church?...

[mannyamador]

so would it be right for me to assume that you believe there is nothing wrong to a person [except for being a mason] if he does not plot against the church?

There may be other things wrong. Plotting against the Church is one such thing, but it is NOT the only wrong practice of freemasonry. The article I referred to lists other wrong things which a freemason can do in the practice of freemasonry. So it would NOT be right to assume that there is no other wrong that a person commits if he faithfully practices freemasonry other than plotting aqainst the Church.

[Jacks]

ok, question sa masons/demolay members, naa ba na sa inyo teaching nga magplot sa church?...

also, manny, by plotting against the church, what does that specifically mean?... i would very much appreciate it if you don't point me to an article that goes as long as a bishop's homily... at the moment, i only want to know what this plotting really means...

[Gwynhuever]

i seem to remember in the early parts of the thread....blackwidow posted something similar to what spot did...about her family's membership to freemasonry and its sub groups...while at the same time being practicing catholics....i also distinctly remember her not attacking the catholic church...so what gives....unsay diperensya nilang duha? ngano na spotlight man si blackwidow...and spot got off without a scratch....ngano kaha no? pangutana nga nag tangag ug dakong ganti...palihug enlighten me.....

ang naglibog,
Gwyn

[mannyamador]

also, manny, by plotting against the church, what does that specifically mean?

It means the same as plotting against any organization. In this case, it means to conspire, or work together to:

• To discredit the teachings of the Church
• disrupt the essential functions of the Church
• harm or kill members of the Church
• bring down the Church or otherwise render it ito some degree nutile

The list above is not exhaustive, of course. I jsut listed some of the more obvious ways.

Maybe an example will help.

The gand Orient party in France openly agitated against the Church, and for many years engaged in measures to counter teachings of the Church. On July 16-17, the international Masonic congress was assembled at Paris by the Grand Orient of France (masonic org). Part of it's program was the promotion of certain "French masonic ideals". The article on freemasonry in the Catholic Encyclopedia describes this as "the overthrow of every kind of spiritual and political tyranny", of 'theocratical' and dynastical powers and class privileges..."

It continues:

• The following are deemed the principal means: (1) To destroy radically by open persecution of the Church or by a hypocritical fraudulent system of separation between State and Church, all social influence of the Church and of religion, insidiously called "clericalism", and, as far as possible, to destroy the Church and all true, i.e., superhuman religion, which is more than a vague cult of fatherland and of humanity; (2) To laicize, or secularize, by a likewise hypocritical fraudulent system of "unsectarianism", all public and private life and, above all, popular instruction and education. "Unsectarianism" as understood by the Grand Orient party is anti-Catholic and even anti-Christian, atheistic, positivistic, or agnostic sectarianism in the garb of unsectarianism. Freedom of thought and conscience of the children has to be developed systematically in the child at school and protected, as far as possible, against all disturbing influences, not only of the Church and priests, but also of the children's own parents, if necessary, even by means of moral and physical compulsion...

The Grand Orient of France was "plotting" against the Church. There are, of course, hundreds of ways to plot against an organization. I just cited one example.

[mannyamador]

i seem to remember in the early parts of the thread....blackwidow posted something similar to what spot did...about her family's membership to freemasonry and its sub groups...while at the same time being practicing catholics....i also distinctly remember her not attacking the catholic church...so what gives....

Your memory seems to be selective. I also remember her disputing the declarations of the Church against freemasonry, and a number of other points. Spot didn't do that. She did. Sje chose to engage in a debate, which is just fine, but then she threw a tantrum and tried to get personal when proven wrong. Spot didn't. The truth is, she picked a fight (or debate) and lost. And behaved immaturely. That's why she didn't get off without a scratch.