Kinsa jud imo gituohan kung diin jud tah gikan, ang Bible or Science?

[chad_tukes]

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Whenever I look back at religious idiocies and atrocities throughout history, I share the same sentiment as Mark Twain: I DON'T KNOW WHETHER TO LAUGH OR TO CRY.

we should be laughing, because religious idiocy is very much apparent today minus the atrocity.

just look at the Vatican. it's probably one of society's biggest joke.

[sidlydon]

bible ko tuo......

[hitch22]

@kenites, thanks for reading and keeping up with the conversation. Where have you been? hehe

I haven't read Sagan's "Demon Haunted World" but I have a rough idea what he's going to talk about. You know what I mean...a lover of science and a skeptic...just like a few of us around here, in what is also perhaps a "demon haunted world" .

I agree. The burden of proof lies on the side that claims things that are beyond reason and science. Furthermore, because the stakes are too high. The stakes are too high especially when it (you know what "it" is) demands one's submission, one's abdication of reason and sense of morals, in favor of a set of dogmas written by bronze-age tribes from some place in the Middle East where hallucinogenic mushrooms abound---and of which you had no say in it because it is claimed to be THE REVEALED WORD. To exchange one's total submission...of course, the burden of proof must be set several notches upward. Don't you think so?

[aldrin89]

I like science I believe some of it, but I have good faith in GOD my creator...

For me God created science for us to have knowledge on how and where we came from.

[hitch22]

hala kamo ra jud nagkasabot...d nalang ko apil oi....kuyawan man ta 2nd coming naman inyo topic.live to the most nalang ko oi.

I do noticed these Second Coming talk cropping up like a sore thumb. I just hope these don't turn out to be another one of those apocalypse cult.

You may have heard the phrase "Don't drink the Kool Aid" sometimes on American TV. Do you know where that originated? The phrase "Drink the Kool Aid" is a reference to the 1978 cult mass-suicide called the "Jonestown massacre". 909 Americans were led to their death by the Rev. Jim Jones in a mass murder-suicide pact (of course, by drinking deadly concoction of Kool Aid mixed with cyanide, sedatives, and tranquilizers) in a South American jungle, shortly after Jones' gunmen killed a visiting U.S. congressman and four others at a nearby airstrip. The phrase has come to mean, "Don’t trust any group you find to be a little on the kooky side."


The vat containing Jones' deadly concoction sits amid the bodies of his followers on Nov. 20, 1978.

There are lots of these dangerous apocalypse cults that have come and gone...with tragic consequences, of course. And yet credulity in such cults just keeps growing. It's amazing.

Here's some of them:
1) Jonestown mass suicide headed by Rev. Jim Jones (911 dead)
2) The Waco Texas massacre headed by David Koresh (80 dead)
3) Heaven's Gate (39 dead)
4) The People's Temple headed by Jim Jones (5 killed, 11 wounded)
5) Reorganized Church of Jesus by Jeffrey Lundgren (5 dead)

I'll leave you with a transcript of the conversation between David Koresh and the FBI:

Koresh: What is Christ revealed as, according to the fourth seal?
FBI: Pale... a rider on a pale horse.
Koresh: And his name is what?
FBI: Death.
Koresh: Now, do you know what the name Koresh means?
FBI: Go ahead...
Koresh: It means death.

[Blackbeard]

Kinsa jud imo gituohan kung diin jud tah gikan, ang Bible or Science?

Both, actually.

it's like a movie. God wrote the script/screenplay whatever. and everything that happens is by his design. evolution, the genetic code, etc. he wrote/made it all then just pressed the play button. took a seat, and watch it everything unfold.

[isd09]

lisod man brooo, both sides naa man tanan..hehehe

[masterjanuarius]

Dyed-in-the-wool, I see. But I'm just curious. What did you think about Richard Carrier's rebuttal:



The above point perhaps expounded on Thomas Jefferson's famous quote:


Jefferson is also famous for drafting and enacting America's Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom...having learned well from Europe's bloody experience with theocracy. Ever wondered why that was necessary at all? Did you know what happened during the Inquisition and the Crusades? Did you know that, in Nov. 2000, the Vatican canonized Thomas More as patron saint of politicians? Get this: Thomas More had people burned at the stake for translating the Bible in English! Even just to say this, I can't even wrap my mind around it...why?

I know you're steadfast in your faith and I respect that. But I would want you to think and reflect on your religion's history as well. I hope you don't mind when I say these things.

Did you know that Christian England used to engage in massive slave trade because they saw no prohibition against it in the Bible but instead regulations?

Reverend Alexander Campbell:


...and the Reverend was right. Indeed one can find such verses in the Bible:

Exodus 21:1-4


1 Peter 2:18


Mark Twain gave an excellent account of the Christian slave trade in England:


Did you know that thousands of women were burnt at the stake for the mistaken belief that they were witches? People used this verse from the Bible as justification:

Exodus 22:18


Once again, Mark Twain used his pen to bear witness to the atrocities:


Whenever I look back at religious idiocies and atrocities throughout history, I share the same sentiment as Mark Twain: I DON'T KNOW WHETHER TO LAUGH OR TO CRY.

* If you want me to lay down more such examples from history, I just might have to open up a new thread for this. Please let me know...coz I know there are some people here who might just oblige as well.

Good quotations. Well researched ideas. But then, is it right for us to judge the past by the standards we have of our present reality and moral measurements? I think it would be unfair! However, St. Paul would also exalt Christians of his time: "to be magnanimous to their slaves .. treating them as brothers in the faith". That might be very revolutionary in those times; but moot and academic for us. It only means to me that moral standards evolve just as culture develops and progresses. The only constant are the Universal Truths. They remain valuable from the beginning until now. Our fickle mind and cultural environment are somehow limited in their understanding and acceptance; hence what was acceptable in the past, might be abhorring today. What was unacceptable yesteryear are now politically correct in our societies. I can cite many examples on these, too.
It is up to you, sir, if you want to make another thread, as this thread has been veering here and there from one topic to another .. if we have to graph these according to the subjects, this may appear very interesting ...

[Peenut]

Let us have the courage to accept that the difference between a prophet and a madman is not what they say but whether the crowd accepts the story and tells their children to believe it.

[fejazir]

i believe in both....pra nako lang ha, science is born to explain the bible, but it is still too young for now to explain God's power...hopefully buhi pa ta when science will be able to give explanation to everything...pero as of now, let's settle on relying to faith for the things that science cannot explain yet..ü