Learning Bisaya

[fife222]

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If cebuano was really that impossible to learn, then i wonder how Seventh-Day-Adventist missionaries get to speak it fluently.

On another note, you are quite right about this and it is very inspiring and motivating to know that it can be achieved by non-native speakers. When you wrote that post above, it made me think maybe I should be asking these missionary guys and girls how they did it. There aren't many fluent non-native speakers of Cebuano here in Hawai'i but hopefully I can locate one or two.

[Dark]

On another note, you are quite right about this and it is very inspiring and motivating to know that it can be achieved by non-native speakers. When you wrote that post above, it made me think maybe I should be asking these missionary guys and girls how they did it. There aren't many fluent non-native speakers of Cebuano here in Hawai'i but hopefully I can locate one or two.

please do...
and kindly also educate as after learning a thing or two...
coz for me... i still have also a lot to learn when it comes to our own language..
thank you too...

AYO-AYO brod!

means good luck brod!

[fife222]

I have gone over the corrections that I have received so far and I have some questions:

here TS:

Magstigod ako pagtuon og Cebuano usab. --> Magsugod (a)ko pagtuon og Cebuano usab.

Karon panahon mibuhat ko kana tuong. --> not understandable at all

Nagbalik ako. --> okay

Sounds too formal though. I suggest that you write/say this way instead:

Mobalik na ko'g tuon og Cebuano. Panahon na para magkat-on na gyud ko.

1a1a. What is ‘seriously’ in Cebuano?
1a1b. ‘mobalik na ko’g’ <- ‘na’ is optional here right? It means ‘already’.
1a1c. ‘ ko’g’ <- the shortened ‘g’ is ‘og’, right?
1a1d. ‘magkat-on na gyud ko’ <- what does ‘na gyud ko’ really mean? My dictionary says that ‘gyud’ is a shorten form of ‘gayod/gyod’ which means ‘should’ or ‘indeed’ but that doesn’t make sense here... I think ‘na gyud ko’ is a set expression but what’s the meaning and how is it used?

Magstigod ako pagtuon og Cebuano usab. =magsugod napud ko ug tuon ug cebuano.
Karon panahon mibuhat ko kana tuong.=can't understand
Nagbalik ako. =i'm back

1b. So, ‘og’ & ‘ug’ are the same thing and ‘o’ & ‘u’ are interchangeable in Bisaya. Is that all correct? (kinda like ‘c’ & ‘k’ in Ilocano...)

I got paid today and now I need to pay my bills.
nikuha ako lay ug tseke karon ug kinahanglan ko magbayad ng mga bayranan ko.

Na-bayran ko karong adlawa. OR Na-sweldohan ko karong adlawa.

I don't think the cebuano dialect has "ng" as preposition. we use "sa" instead.

2a. ‘na-bayran’ <- this is from the verb ‘bayad’ but it changes to ‘bayran’. ‘-ad’ is removed and ‘-ran’ is added. What grammar rule/grammar is this or does this just simply happen to certain verbs by chance? *rolls eyes* (but seriously please excuse the sarcasm, my deep hatred against filipino verbs has been rekindled at this point)

.. nabayran ko karong adlawa ug karon ako bayran ako mga bayranan.

2b1. ‘karon ako bayran ako mga bayranan’ <- this just says that ‘I pay my bills’ but if I wanted to put ‘need to pay’ then it would be ‘karon ko kinahanglan bayran ako mga bayranan’, correct?
2b2. ‘ako mga bayranan’ <- this means ‘my bills’ but can also be written ‘mga bayranan ko’, right?

ako gi tabanganan ako mego mahalin iya butang pero wala ko tagai ug commission
"I helped my friend to sell his stuff but he didnt gave me any commission"

2c. ‘ako gitabanganan ako mego’ <- here, ‘gitabanganan’ is a noun and ‘ako gitabanganan’ means ‘I’m the one who helped...’ but I could also write ‘ako gitabang og mego ko’, right?

Sama ra sa akong nahuna-hunaan, ang tsunami nga ilang gihisgutan kay nahulog ra sa wala.

3a1. ‘sama ra sa’ <- This is a set expression meaning ‘just like...’, right?
3a2. ‘sama ra sa’ <- what does ‘sa’ mean here?
3a3. ‘tsunami nga ilang gihisgutan’ <- here’s another grammar pattern, I think. noun + nga + pronoun + -ng + verb (as a noun) = ‘(noun) that everyone was (verb-ing) about’ <- correct? i.e.
the book that everyone was reading = ang libro nga ilang nabasaan

That’s correct, right?

3a4. ‘kay’ <- means ‘instead; because’ but also serves the same function in Bisaya as ‘ay’ does in Tagalog, right?

Daan pa lage ko, ang tsunami nga ilang gihisgutan kay wala ra gyud.

3b. ‘daan pa lage ko’ <- ‘daan’ means ‘old’ & ‘lage’ means ‘after all;certainly’ but is ‘daan pa lage ko’ a set expression because when I break it down it doesn’t make sense...

Daan pa lage ko, layu ra gyud sa tinuod tong ilang gihisgutan nga tsunami.

3c1. ‘layu ra gyud sa tinuod’ <- What does ‘gyud’ mean here? Also, what does ‘sa tinuod’ mean? I think that ‘tinuod’ comes from ‘tuod’ which means ‘real, valid’ but it is used as a verb here it seems and that meaning doesn’t make sense...
3c2. ‘tong’ <- It is a shorten version of ‘kadto’ and means ‘that’, right?

Gikapoy gyd ko pag ayo rn. Tungod siguro ni ky naa koi gibuhat duol sa among gasul maong ni sakit pagmaayo akong ulo.

4a1. ‘gikapoy gyud ko pag-ayo ron’ <- What does ‘pag-ayo’ mean?
4a2. ‘tungod siguro ni kay’ <- literally ‘because maybe this is’ correct?
4a3. what does ‘koi’, mean? (I think that’s a typo but I’m not sure...)
4a4. ‘naa ko gibuhat duol sa’ <- this means ‘I work near’ and is the same thing as ‘gibuhat ko duol sa...’ which also means ‘I work near’ so why did you add ‘naa’? Does it change the meaning any?
4a5. ‘among gasul’ <- means ‘propane gas’ ?
4a6. ‘maong ni sakit’ <- what does ‘maong ni’ mean? I think ‘maong’ means ‘that’s why’ but what about ‘ni’ OR is ‘maong ni’ a set expression which together means ‘that’s why’ ?
4a7. ‘pagmaayo’ <- this is the long version of ‘pag-ayo’ and means ‘really’, right?

Cebauanos say, 'Gikapoy kaayu ko ron. Siguro kay duol man gud ko sa propane, maong sakit akong ulo ron.

Gikapoy ko = I'm tired
Gikaapy kaayu ko = I'm so/really tired.
Gikapoy kaayu ko ron = I'm so/really tired today.

Siguro (tungod) kay = Maybe/I think it's because
duol man gud ko sa propane = I work around propane. literally 'I am near the propane' with 'man gud' implying 'result'
maong sakit akong ulo ron = literally 'that's why my head is aching right now'

4b1. ‘with 'man gud' implying 'result'’ <- What do you mean by ‘implying result’ here?
4b2. ‘maong sakit akong ulo ron’ <- this means ‘that’s why my head aches now’ but I wanted to specifically say ‘it is making my head ache’... This is why I requested the experts here to focus on grammar and not simply conveying the meaning. By not focusing on grammar, my journal entries are useless. In this specific example I want to learn how to express causatives in Bisaya which is ‘something make something does something.’ i.e. ‘he made me study’, ‘she made me eat’, etc.

Akong gilimpyohan akong balai ug balig upat ka oras karon.

5. ‘balig’ means ‘about’ ?

TS, i suggest you let the natives translate your thoughts in english into cebuano, and then study the grammar pattern of the cebuano construction. the problem with the grammar-translation method (english into cebuano) is that it's not really effective. you end up with awkward sentences.

That is precisly what I’m doing. The problem is not my analyzation but rather the idea that I want to convey isn’t being conveyed as outlined in my English sentences as I outlined above when someone translated one of my English sentences as ‘maong ni sakit akong ulo’ when my English sentence actually read ‘it makes my head ache’. What I’m referring to has nothing to do with a grammar-translation method.

But going with what you said concerning my method of translation, you are correct.

it's the grammar-translation method, isn't it? the resulting translation is rather awkward.

Your idea in cebuano is:
Kinahanglan ko makakita og paagi nga/aron dili makalimtan ang mga grammar corrections nga akong nadawat/nakat-unan samtang nagsige o nagpadayun ko pagsulat sa akong mga bag-ong journal entries.

6a. ‘makakita’ & ‘makalimtan’ <- here ‘maka-‘ is the simple present tense and does not indicate the abilitative, right? Also, ‘kita’ means ‘to see’ and ‘to figure out’, right?

the way i see it, the cebuano construction is:
verb 1 + subject + infinitive verb + object + infinitive of result (with a 'that' clause) + 'while' clause

need + I + to find/figure out + a way + to not forget the grammar corrections that I have received/learned + while i continue to write my current journal entries.

using the construction above, you can say:

kinahanglan ko mo-kaon og utan aron dili masakit samtang nagpadayun pa ko sa akong trabaho sa call center.

6b. this means ‘I have to eat vegetables so I don’t hurt while I continue at my job at the call center’ ?

kinahanglan ko magtuon sa akong leksyon aron dili mahagbong samtang nagtungha pa ko sa kolehiyo.

6c. this means ‘I have to study my lesson so that I don’t fail while I’m still attending college.’ ?

kinahanglan ko magtigum og kwarta aron dili mahurot ang allowance nga ginapadala sa akong mga ginikanan samtang nagtungha pa ko kolehiyo.

6d. this means ‘I need to save money so that I don’t run out of the allowance that my parents sent while I am still attending college.’ ?

Bisaya:
Nagkinahanglan ko nga makakaplag (or makakita) og pamaagi nga dili makalimot sa manga saktong batadila nga gihatag sa ako samtang ako magpadayon sa pagsulat sa akoang mga dyurnal.

6e1. You can conjugate ‘kinahanglan’ like a verb? Also, ‘nagkinahanglan’ is the present tense, right?
6e2. ‘sa ako’ <- Is that a typo? Isn’t that supposed to be ‘sa nako’ or ‘sa kanako’ ?
6e3. ‘sa pagsulat sa akoang mga dyurnal’ <- ‘akoang’ is a typo, right? Also, instead of using ‘sa’ here, I could also substitute it for ‘og/ug’, right? Which would be ‘og/ug pagsulat sa akong mga dyurnal’ correct?

My friend asked me = Gihangyo ko sa akong migo
to go swimming = nga molangoy/maligo
uban sa mga iho = with sharks
yesterday = gahapon
I told him = Gi-ingnan nako siya
(that) I don't do things like that = nga di ko tigbuhat og ingon anang mga butanga
because things like that is crazy = kay kanang mga butanga mga inamaw/binuang

Gihangyo ko sa akong migo nga molangoy uban sa mga iho gahapon. Gi-ingnan nako siya nga di ko tigbuhat og ingon ana nga mga butanga kay kanang mga butanga mga inamaw/binuang.

7a1. ‘gihangyo ko sa akong migo’ <- ‘sa’ is interchangeable with ‘ang’ here so ‘gihangyo ko ang akong migo’ would also be correct, right?
7a2. ‘to go swimming = nga molangoy/maligo’ <- once again, you simply conveyed the English meaning which is not what I’m looking for. What if I wanted to say ‘walk slowly juggling a soccer ball on your feet’ ? Do you see the grammar pattern I’m trying to learn?
7a3. ‘gi-ingnan’ <- this comes from the verb ‘ingon’. But what are the grammar rule(s) that explain how the morphological processes work when ‘-an’ is added to verbs in general? I have been noticing that this happens to a lot of different verbs....
7a4. ‘di ko tigbuhat’ <- or I could say ‘dili ko tigbuhat’, right?
7a5. ‘di ko tigbuhat og ingon anang mga butanga’ <- what is the grammar pattern here? I’m confused. I think that is my first time seeing the affix ‘tig-‘... but it looks like that portion reads ‘i don’t doing like that things’ but that doesn’t make sense... OR
‘ingon’ + ‘demonstrative pronoun + noun = a set expression meaning ‘like that’ which would mean that other examples would be:
di ko tigkaon og ingon ana nga (or ‘anang’) mga pagkaon = I don’t eat food like that
di ko tiggusto og ingon ana nga mga katawohan = I don’t like people like that

AND

when used as a subject in the sense of ‘things like that...’ the construction is:
demonstrative pronoun + noun OR verb + ‘ingon’ + demonstrative pronoun + noun + mga + conjugated adjective = things like that & verb-ing things like that is adjective

kanang mga pagkaon mga nalami = foods like that are delicious
Tigkaon ingon kanang mga pagkaon mga inaslag = eating foods like that is healthy

Nanimaho akong kamot sa paglimpyo nako sa akong puluy-anan ganina tungod sa guwantis nga akong gigamit.

8. ‘tungod’ <- this means ‘because’ but I think that ‘tungod sa’ is a set expression meaning ‘because of’ Correct?

malipayon kaayo ko nga nahibalik ang akong kabaskog karon...
or
malipayon ko kay namaayo ang panglawas karong adlawa

9. ‘nahibalik’ <- this is my first time seeing the affix ‘nahi-‘... what does it mean and how is it used?

[Sol_Itaire]

A: Magkat-on ko og Mandarin.
B: Ha, is that so?
A: Yes. Magkat-on gyud ko.
B: When? Next year?
A: Dili. Magkat-on na ko ron.
B: Sure ka?
A: Yezzzz. Magkat-on na gyud ko ron.


A: Magbag-ong kinabuhi ko oi.
B: Ha, is that so?
A: Yes. Magbag-ong kinabuhi gyud ko.
B: When? Next year?
A: Dili. Magbag-ong kinabuhi na ko ron.
B: Sure ka?
A: Yezzzz. Magbag-ong kinabuhi na gyud ko ron.

so what do 'na' and 'gyud' mean then? The student doesn't have to give the English translations. If he can construct a dialogue or sentence using 'na' and 'gyud' correctly, then he has understood the usage of the terms.

@everybody
wala man gani english translation sa term nga 'ikog' di ba? that's why translation is not effective. one has to learn the culture and understand the context jud.

[fife222]

one has to learn the culture and understand the context jud.

Ohhh! Now I understand what you are referring to! Nice example! But I still don't think that applies to verbs but anyway

Please let me know if my questions about the corrections the natives provided are not clear.

[Sol_Itaire]

^so TS, construct a dialogue using 'na' and 'gyud'

[fife222]

^so TS, construct a dialogue using 'na' and 'gyud'

Me?? Umm, ok I'll try. hehe. Let me think.

[ayki]

i`m having a slight problem with this one english word to be translated to bisaya....
unsay bisaya ug ICE? LOL!!!

[Dark]

1a1a. What is ‘seriously’ in Cebuano?
i cant think of the exact word for that...
but we just say it like this SERYOSO or seryos...
example...
You’re too serious = seryos ra ka ayo ka
or
I am serious to you = seryos lagi ko nimo

[floppy]

1a1a. What is ‘seriously’ in Cebuano?
i cant think of the exact word for that...
but we just say it like this SERYOSO or seryos...
example...
You’re too serious = seryos ra ka ayo ka
or
I am serious to you = seryos lagi ko nimo

seriously = "tinuoray" or "sa tinuoray lang"

Sentence1: I seriously hate basketball.
Translation1: Di jud ko ganahan ug basketball, sa tinuoray lang.