Learning Bisaya

[LaBelleza]

sighhh i should really learn :P

[fife222]

there are patterns i see.

There are far far more patterns than that. This is what my Cebuano language book reads:
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6434/bisaya1.png
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9041/bisaya2.png

will post again when it's clear to me.

I'm pretty sure you are fluent in Tagalog also, right? I hope you can clarify this issue with regards to Tagalog also if you don't mind. Honestly, the ONLY way to know which infix goes with which verb is to look in a dictionary that lists this. PLEASE I hope to God that I am wrong and you can solidly prove me wrong on this because I don't know of any dictionary that lists this. This small issue almost makes Filipino languages impossible to learn... I just always wonder how native speakers know what infix to use with what verb...? Some of you might say, "well, we just know because we have been around it for since we were children and we basically mimic what we hear and have been taught." My response to that is what about when you see new words out of context? Even if you see words in a particular context, how do you know that particular verb can NOT take other infixes besides the infix that you saw it used with in the context you encountered the verb in?? So, you all must be guessing OR maybe you all have to explain what it is you are talking about when you try to beef up your Bisayan vocabulary knowledge until someone "educated" informs you of the way the word/verb is really supposed to be used.... *rolls eyes* sigh.

[Dark]

whew... i never thought learning our own language was that hard...
i learned a lot by reading with you guys... THANKS sad d ai SOL hehehe
good teacher! whew... and to fife... i guess your right!
if you ask me answer would be the same as with

"well, we just know because we have been around it for since we were children and we basically mimic what we hear and have been taught."

hehe

i guess we should start making dictionary for bisaya hah?
just like tagalog they already have there own...
why not... we bisdak make our own...
hehehe its not a bad idea...

[fife222]

i guess we should start making dictionary for bisaya hah?
just like tagalog they already have there own...

The non-existence of a Cebuano dictionary isn't the problem. It is the non-existence of a dictionary that matches verbs with their proper infixes clearly and authoritatively. Not only for Bisaya but also for Tagalog. Even Tagalog doesn't NOT have a dictionary such as this. The ONLY dictionary I have ever heard of that does this is an online dictionary I know of located here:
Large Tagalog Dictionary

And even that dictionary doesn't list nowhere near ALL the possible infixes for a verb/noun but at least it lists some. Besides that online dictionary nothing else lists it which is a shame.

why not... we bisdak make our own...
hehehe its not a bad idea...

There are online Bisaya dictionaries but they lack very pertinent information obviously.

[Sol_Itaire]

^TS nope, i'm not fluent in tagalog.

yeah for new terms,like 'text', we use the affixes that are used for verbs with similar function/form.

ni-text ko niya gabii
ni-tawag ko niya gabii

mo-text ko niya ugma
motawag ko niya ugma

nagteksanay mi
nagtawagay mi

magteksanay mi
magtawagay mi

teksan nako siya ugma
tawagan nako siya ugma

teksi ko beh
tawagi ko beh

tawaga na siya og 'mommy'
BUT NOT
teksa na siya og 'mommy'

[maddox_pitt]

wow..nice thread...
when i was starting to learn bisaya i found it hard to differentiate gahapon from gihapon hehe
it was also hard for me to understand kay paspas kaayo musulti ang akong mga kauban...hehe
pero before the sem ended i started to speak bisaya bisag di jud q kamao... after a month, bisdak na kaau hehe masunod na ang accent sa bisaya haha

[fingolfin]

@fife ...

.. let me tell you something, cebuano-bisaya is the most lazy of all the dialects in the philippines. We usually ommit the letter L in most words. i'll give you some examples:


.. sand = BALAS .. in bisaya, we pronounce it as BAS

.. house = BALAY .. bisaya it's BAY

.. it's just a funny trivia though, nyehehehe




.. but, why do you want to learn the proper prefixes of the verbs in tagalog nor bisaya ?? Are you trying to write a book in tagalog?? ( no sarcasm here ). Coz when u use tagalog or bisaya in everyday use, you'll soon learn that we also dont care about the proper grammar or prefixes. As long as the person you're talking to can understand, that's fine.

[fife222]

.. but, why do you want to learn the proper prefixes of the verbs in tagalog nor bisaya ?? Are you trying to write a book in tagalog?? ( no sarcasm here ). Coz when u use tagalog or bisaya in everyday use, you'll soon learn that we also dont care about the proper grammar or prefixes. As long as the person you're talking to can understand, that's fine.

I think either you all are missing the point or I'm not being clear enough of the problem at hand. It is not a matter that's as simple as 'As long as the person you're talking to can understand, that's fine.' because that isn't how languages work. The problem is simple, the solution is not. Case in point being:
'to start' according to my dictionary is 'sugod' but how do you know what infix goes with that verb? You can't just say as long as the other person understands you then it's ok because how are they going to understand you if you don't know what you're talking about in the first place?? Does one just keep repeating the different conjugations of the SAME verb until the other party understands and moreover how would the other party know what is correct if there is no common ground in the first place. One can say 'magsugod' but NOT 'nisugod' or 'mosugod' or etc etc. but how do you know what is ok or not ok?? If you all don't understand what i'm saying then I don't know any other way to explain it. I don't know, this is frustrating maybe this is hopeless....

yeah for new terms,like 'text', we use the affixes that are used for verbs with similar function/form.

It seems like you are understanding what I'm trying to figure out, Sol_Itaire. That is Great!! What you have posted above is a start! A very extremely small start but nonetheless a start. Guys/gals, what Sol_Itaire posted is what I'm referring to. That, my friends, is the problem that I think we should bring our minds together and work on fixing. So, in response to your above post Sol_Itaire, my question is how do we establish what affixes go with the original words so that we can apply those rules to the new terms? I know you are still trying to figure this out but I just thought I should ask anyway. :P

[Sol_Itaire]

^tawag/text vs. sugod

Nitawag ko niya. --> completed, durative or temporal, active voice
Nisugod ko sa misa. --> completed, temporal, active voice. not common though. we use the passive:

Gisugdan nako ang misa --> indirect passive, completed, temporal

So, the best way is to learn language first and then analyze the construction later to see which mood, aspect, and voice is used.

[fife222]

So, the best way is to learn language first and then analyze the construction later to see which mood, aspect, and voice is used.

I think you all don't understand since you all are native speakers. Nevermind.... *sigh*

but let me try one last time:

tawaga na siya og 'mommy'
BUT NOT
teksa na siya og 'mommy'

What if I challenged you on this? Now of course everyone knows that I am merely a student of Bisaya and not a native but nonetheless, if I said to you "How do you know this?" How would you respond? How can you tell me that I can say (tawaga na siya og 'mommy') but not (teksa na siya og 'mommy') ?? What proof do you have to show that you are right? Can you pull out some grammar book of Cebuano or dictionary and tell me for a fact that in Cebuano what you state above are grammatical facts??

(And keep in mind that one can not simply claim that they are correct just because they are a native speaker.)