are we all sinners ??

[Tirong-say]

Actually sis, racism does not define any boundaries, country or religion. Our country is practicing that too. You may not see or hear it but there are clear indications why racism exists in every country, like ours [i.e. christians against muslims, muslims against christians, tagalogs and bisayas and so on].

Back to the topic:

Personally, I don't like being shoved by other people that "I am a sinner" or "posted a note/letter/card or something that I am a sinner". In the first place, why would they insist of telling me that I am a sinner? Isn't not my obligation to find it myself rather than telling me that I am a sinner? Seriously, people sometimes are playing too much godlike behavior.

Sometimes there is a conflict in self preservation that should be regulated. We still do not master what we have and what we are capable of as to attain an outcome beneficial to everyone. This is not actually godlike but an adherence towards what should be equality and righteous to everyone.

[josephdc]

yup.. there is really no such thing as right and wrong... people just make up stuff...

whats right to you maybe wrong to somebody else....

Do you honestly believe that? If someone murders your friend for example, you don't think that's wrong?

[josephdc]

ive see a movie like these before..

where the soldiers torture the enemy to get information which in the end save a lot of their comrade's lives...

which is seen.. the torture? or saving your friend's life?.... if torture is bad, then saving your friend is also bad...

the ends always justify the means...

Do you think that the soldiers in your story did what was right by saving their comrades' lives? But you said earlier that there's no such thing as right and wrong...

[AmorsoloX]

Do you think that the soldiers in your story did what was right by saving their comrades' lives? But you said earlier that there's no such thing as right and wrong...

im not saying saving your comrade's life is right.. but if it serves your purpose then it is beneficial...


it is in their best interest for the purpose of accomplishing their objectives with least amount of resources or lives that they need to save their comrade's life even if means torturing the enemy...

the ends justify the means...

[AmorsoloX]

Do you honestly believe that? If someone murders your friend for example, you don't think that's wrong?

nope.. we have to look at the perspective of the murderer and why murdered my friend..

what you are saying is.. if i would feel wrong if my friend is murdered..

the concept of good and evil are just feelings... very subjective.. there is no definite good and evil...

any action that serves no purpose is not bad.. only a waste of resources... illogical...

[fingolfin]

.. the morals of today are very much different from the morals of ancient times, even the time of the great roman empire. Back then, it was ok to have slaves, and it was legal to fornicate with your slaves. But right now, slavery has been banned, well, not entirely, because there are still "helpers" in our homes. But, we treat them with respect now. Having said that, it wasnt a sin back then if you have s3x with your slave but right now, it's a sin if you rape your helper.


@amor, yep, good and evil is very grey to me, not a clear cut, black or white. It's a matter of where you stand and how you see things.

.. in the case of holduppers and snatchers, these people are considered "Sinners" by society, but to them, they are just doing those things in order to survive. Can you really blame them if they have no job because they cant afford a good education ??

[Sinyalan]

Here's a fact.

Q: Why do you think christians are quick to label people, evil?
A: Because you christian spread the gospel of love and tolerance, yet its a well known fact that the most cases of murder, rape and abortions happen in christian communities.

How true is that?

[josephdc]

im not saying saving your comrade's life is right.. but if it serves your purpose then it is beneficial...

it is in their best interest for the purpose of accomplishing their objectives with least amount of resources or lives that they need to save their comrade's life even if means torturing the enemy...

the ends justify the means...

I see, so for you there's really no right and wrong, only what works and what doesn't work...

But there's something that bothers me about your idea. What about cases like, say, the massacre in Maguindanao? Are you saying that what the perpetrators of the crime did was not wrong? If we apply your analogy to that incident, would you say that the end (allegedly to eliminate political rivals) justify the means (massacre)?

[josephdc]

nope.. we have to look at the perspective of the murderer and why murdered my friend..

what you are saying is.. if i would feel wrong if my friend is murdered..

the concept of good and evil are just feelings... very subjective.. there is no definite good and evil...

any action that serves no purpose is not bad.. only a waste of resources... illogical...

So you're saying that the act of murder itself is not really wrong, but you may feel it's wrong?

So for you there's no such thing as good or bad actions, all actions are value-neutral?

How about the Holocaust, would you say that what Hitler did to the Jews and the other ethnic minorities are not wrong?

[josephdc]

.. the morals of today are very much different from the morals of ancient times, even the time of the great roman empire. Back then, it was ok to have slaves, and it was legal to fornicate with your slaves. But right now, slavery has been banned, well, not entirely, because there are still "helpers" in our homes. But, we treat them with respect now. Having said that, it wasnt a sin back then if you have s3x with your slave but right now, it's a sin if you rape your helper.

Do you believe then bro that moral values change over time? You brought up the issue of slavery. At one time in our history it's acceptable to have slaves, now slavery is recognized as a moral wrong. But does that mean that slavery is not really wrong? If things change in the distant future and nations again adopt the practice of keeping slaves, would that make slavery good again?

.. in the case of holduppers and snatchers, these people are considered "Sinners" by society, but to them, they are just doing those things in order to survive. Can you really blame them if they have no job because they cant afford a good education ??

Are you then saying that robbing and "snatching" is not really wrong?